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Tripolar Nature of Software Engineering Salaries in the Netherlands and Europe

148 点作者 hacksilver大约 4 年前

15 条评论

dukeyukey大约 4 年前
My first tech job in London was at a medium-sized (~300 employees) tech company HQ&#x27;d in Seattle, with London being 2nd largest. Not long after I joined, one of the team leads left for a largish fintech, and slowly brought the rest of his team with him over the next couple of years. Despite this constant brain-drain, management refused to address the salary issues.<p>After a couple of years, I left to go there too, with a ~60% raise(!). I learnt from my manager, who left a month after me to the same fintech, that HR only benchmarked against &quot;comparable companies in the same area&quot;, meaning west London suburbs, and ignored the pull of Central London finance, despite literally dozens of people leaving to go there. You gotta be realistic against who you&#x27;re competing against, and thanks to how mobile tech professionals are, European companies are competing against not just their area or city, but often against Silicon Valley.
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blunte大约 4 年前
I am rather shocked at some of the numbers from his salary survey. I have seen many mid and senior dev Booking positions listed in the recent few years in that typical 50-65k range.<p>Likewise for Catawiki. Their listed salaries were significantly higher than what I think is typical here, but I never saw anything over 100k.<p>The #1 challenge is that most salary ranges for advertised positions are not listed. If you are talking to a recruiter, the recruiter can usually give a range, but still I&#x27;ve never heard these numbers. I get approached weekly for &quot;senior&quot; positions that are in the 50-60 range.<p>Frankly, I don&#x27;t believe the high salaries he talks about are numerous. There may be a few, but it would be shocking to find out that 150+k is typical in the examples he mentions.<p>In the US, particularly west coast and NYC (finance), 200+k is not surprising. 600k? I seriously doubt that is common, unless you&#x27;re working in a hedge fund and getting 300k bonuses based on company performance.<p>Generally speaking, the Dutch workplace doesn&#x27;t seem to hold developers in the esteem that they hold managers. Maybe that&#x27;s reasonable, but it certainly puts the Netherlands at a competitive disadvantage. The company I work for would like to hire 5 Rails devs, but they cannot find anyone with the desired experience at the offered pay.
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returningfory2大约 4 年前
&gt; Yes, healthcare and the cost of living are more expensive in the US<p>I feel Europeans looking in on the US from the outside consistently have a misleading view on healthcare. I&#x27;m saying this as a European in the US working in big tech.<p>My plan&#x27;s maximum out-of-pocket in a year is ~$3k, which I can pay pre-tax thanks to an HSA. It is less than 2% of my total comp in the worst case (in 2020 I spent less than $300 on healthcare). In return I get coverage that is generally better than the free public healthcare back in Europe.<p>I think CoL is similar, but not as clear cut. One thing CoL discussions often miss is that many expenses are independent of the local CoL; for example, a Macbook Pro costs the same in every US city. If your salary adjusts exactly for CoL, you&#x27;re actually doing better because of this.
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user5994461大约 4 年前
2 things when you read between the line:<p>1) Numbers are total compensation, the base salary is a LARGE amount below that. Few of the figures are hinting to bonus&#x2F;shares being 50% of the base, if not more.<p>That&#x27;s not to say it&#x27;s bad but that&#x27;s something to bear in mind. Some of the quoted companies are worthless because non public, other companies might go either way (Uber is not Facebook&#x2F;Apple&#x2F;Microsoft when it comes to stock). You certainly want to see how the shares are allocated, on what schedules, how&#x27;s the taxation is working (US equity in US dollar can be big pain in Europe). Bonus are for those who believe in them (Uber is not known for having nice and stable management layer).<p>2) These are staff engineer positions, which are incredibly rare and selective.<p>- Not sure if Uber Staff is like L6 or L7, either way you&#x27;re probably not going to achieve that in your lifetime. The later is like the head of a department with 100+ people below them them, basically a whole small company (if you want to talk about individual contributors it&#x27;s even rarer than that). For the former, we&#x27;re talking about a person with two decades of experience in tech and probably a chunk in the web industry (better have competing offers from Facebook London or Google Zurich).<p>That&#x27;s really the counterpart to the $600k developers from SV&#x2F;NYC, a very far cry from the average developer, even a far cry from the usual good performer.<p>edit: Uber only IPO&#x27;ed in 2019. The article is talking about offers going as far as 2016. These offers were basically imaginary money. Employees didn&#x27;t see a penny of it unless they were still in 2020 (after lockup period), and if they were, the realized number was certainly very different than the initial promise (note: Uber went down after IPO).
cmews大约 4 年前
What is missing in this article is that most developers that want to properly get paid in the Netherlands switch to freelancing. There are a lot of freelance positions where they work a couple of years for 75-95 euros per hour and achieve the 130-200k yearly income (still not as high as silicon valley).
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anon1253大约 4 年前
Interesting! I can echo these findings from from personal experience. For the past 5-6 years I had been doing remote work for a US west-coast based company from the Netherlands. My annual salary as a senior &quot;data scientist&quot; was at least double, if not triple, that of my fellow Dutch peers. Typically salaries around here seem to stall at the €45-60k&#x2F;yr mark with very few positions open at higher tiers (and usually not advertised through any typical recruitment portals, where salaries are typically even lower, even when commanding decades of experience in obscure technologies). When I left that remote position the options really did seem limited, and I ended up taking a substantial pay cut. Short of trying to bootstrap your own company (VC-like funding here is also not very typical, with angel investors being almost non-existent) moving seemed the only option, which I had no real intention of doing. Even moving slightly east to Germany seemed to be the better option. I think our current predicament has really opened the market though. Remote work is no longer considered weird and there definitely are very talented and skilled engineers up for grabs here in the Netherlands if they are coached ever so slightly. I wonder if there is an opportunity here for an employment-agency-ish company facilitating the overseas hiring process and legalese. Exciting times!
blank_fan_pill大约 4 年前
Seems like the gist is that large multinational tech companies pay 2-4x what local or non software focused companies do. It&#x27;s more or less the same in the US.<p>I am glad to hear the market is moving towards devs in Europe
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MehdiHK大约 4 年前
I&#x27;m currently a software engineer based in Berlin and I&#x27;ve found that stock options are not common at all in Germany [1]. I&#x27;m curious to know, is this scene different in Netherlands or other places in EU?<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ft.com&#x2F;content&#x2F;5778f3d0-1b3c-11ea-97df-cc63de1d73f4" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ft.com&#x2F;content&#x2F;5778f3d0-1b3c-11ea-97df-cc63de1d7...</a>
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sanxiyn大约 4 年前
&gt; COVID helped a lot too, IMO. Companies realised full remote is an option and you can increase your talent pool to include the entire planet.<p>I think this will be the most important legacy of COVID.
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Ave大约 4 年前
Canadian tech salaries are experiencing the exact same thing as described in the article in my recent experience interviewing.
agustif大约 4 年前
&gt; Stripe and Spotify have both started to hire for permanent remote positions in Europe as well, expanding their hiring pool to all of the EU. Both companies are competing across Europe, and not with the local market. They join companies like GoDaddy, GitLab, GitHub, and others who have been doing this for years.<p>Although I know for a fact this is true, in the case of Stripe at least, I haven&#x27;t been able to fit any role that fits myself (frontend&#x2F;junior) so I guess they&#x27;re looking only for more senior positions in this remote-covid post-era...<p>PS: If anyone at Stripe is hiring for more junior&#x2F;middle frontend sofware engineer or fullstack node&#x2F;ts&#x2F;js&#x2F;graphql&#x2F;jamstack&#x2F;serverless positions do let me know! mail on the profile
kotxig大约 4 年前
Is there a list of companies that fall into category 3 that offer fully remote positions? I worked at a tier 3 company in the bay area and have since settled into what&#x27;s probably a tier 2 company in Europe. I am considering moving back to the US after covid and doing another 4 years at a tier 3 company, but I would much rather find a job that pays $300k fully remote from Europe (even if that means working on an east coast timezone) than relocating back to the cesspit of San Francisco for $500k.
domano大约 4 年前
How do the responsibilities compare? I am at the upper end of the local senior positions in companies(well, well below 100k) and get offers for up to 100k.<p>Currently i am doing consulting, building up the organization to be more modern, creating videos, system architecture positions for customers, golang courses and development, some frontend stuff. Is this something similiar to these top paying companies?<p>And do all of these require the leetcode interviews you always read about? Sure would like to double my salary in germany haha
vmception大约 4 年前
&quot;Yes, healthcare and the cost of living are more expensive in the US&quot;<p>They should add, [but not that much more expensive].
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0xfaded大约 4 年前
This is fantastic news. As a reference point, in Denmark the highest software engineering salary I&#x27;ve seen is €120.000, which was at a large Danish corp. I&#x27;d love more data points.
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