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Has Y Combinator lost its way when the latest company is a Mac only widget?

368 点作者 impostervt大约 4 年前

63 条评论

onion2k大约 4 年前
Literally every time you see a startup release a product that seems trivial it&#x27;s because that&#x27;s not the full story. You&#x27;re judging without complete information. For example, the public face might be a simple Mac calendar widget, but that could be the gateway to calendar sharing, native office apps, meeting booking, event management, ticket sales, corporate flight sales etc.<p>Building an audience with a cheap tool that solves a tiny pain point for a lot of people is a <i>great</i> way to build a direct relationship with a market that you can then sell other services to.<p>I&#x27;m not saying that&#x27;s the case here. Maybe their business is actually a widget. I&#x27;m saying that most businesses do far more than you can see from the outside.
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llaolleh大约 4 年前
Jesus Christ people. Give it a break. I hate this Reddit post. You&#x27;re not going to build the next Apple today by making your first product a full fledged competitive modern computer.<p>Remember that Microsoft started with a BASIC interpreter. Apple themselves started with a niche computer back then that sold to less 500 hobbyists at a hobbyist computer shop. The next Apple would also have to build something extremely niche that no one is paying attention to. Something like this.
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eitland大约 4 年前
2 observations:<p>- I happily paid for a very similar product about 10 years ago (it was full screen width and had a brilliant timeline feature but otherwise very similar. It was broken when Snow Lion or something was released. I still look for an equivalent.)<p>- Monthly payments forever for standalone apps is a big no no in my book. I get annoyed even just writing about it. Monthly payments for feature upgrades, perpetual license for last pud release (and some discount to encourage people to not jump on and off) is however totally OK with me. In this case however I think the price is generally too high anyway - for now.
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adenozine大约 4 年前
Was there ever a time where YC only boosted deeply meaningful companies that were focused on uplifting humanity?<p>I mean, no disrespect on yc, but it performs what it says on the tin. It&#x27;s a business for businesses.<p>Idk. I have tempered expectations moreso than some I guess.<p>You&#x27;ve got a point, I just wonder how egregious is TOO much.
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dave_aiello大约 4 年前
I&#x27;m going to repeat that Fantastical does 95% of what Superpowered claims to do. And Fantastical has features that Superpowered clearly does not have, such as a really good natural language mechanism for event and task creation.<p>And subscription costs are less.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;flexibits.com&#x2F;fantastical" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;flexibits.com&#x2F;fantastical</a>
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mbreese大约 4 年前
Doesn’t YC normally invest in the team rather than the idea? From their Launch HN post:<p><i>&gt; We started YC as a video lecture platform for professors but realized it was a horrible idea. We needed a new problem. </i><p>Based on the how it started &#x2F; how’s it going, it looks like they started in YC with one idea and realized they needed to pivot. The fact that this is what they came up with isn’t great, but at least it’s something. It wasn’t their first idea and it probably won’t stick, but that’s not terrible. I don’t think this one single company is a valid criticism of the entire system. Failure is the default end state for startups, so you take the not as good with the unicorns. And at least this one is still going!
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KMnO4大约 4 年前
Linked HN discussion, in which people were already (IMO rightfully so) very critical of the product:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=26425318" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=26425318</a>
TomAnthony大约 4 年前
Offtopic: I despair that a calendar widget for my Mac is now a pay monthly thing. It is becoming widespread that things that were previously just a piece of software you could buy (then optionally upgrade in the future) are now a monthly cost.<p>It makes sense for high ticket pieces of software (Office, Photoshop), where it makes it more accessible for regular users. However, for a calendar widget or many similar examples that come up nowadays, it just turns me off immediately.
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koluna大约 4 年前
Kind of a ridiculous product to find. When asked why a user needs to pay $10&#x2F;mo, the answer was “We&#x27;d like to fall into the category of other consumer SaaS products”<p>That’s the reason? Just shows how jokes become reality - everything is a subscription because you can squeeze more money that way, not because of actual value.
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colinplamondon大约 4 年前
I couldn&#x27;t disagree more. I absolutely LOVE VimCal, and one of the reasons for that is the menubar functionality.<p>Showing a countdown to my next meeting in my menubar, with one click video join, is super useful. The app itself shows how much room for improvement in calendar apps there is - their availability sharing and time travel features are consistently deeply helpful<p>This is all to say, I think this product approach has a lot of merit. I primarily use Vimcal in its &quot;App Mode&quot;, not its &quot;Menubar Mode&quot;, but its menubar mode is super valuable.<p>I happily pay Vimcal $15&#x2F;mo, and love seeing in the space. Google Calendar and iCal are fucking terrible. I hope the SuperPowered guys crush it.
ajsharp大约 4 年前
This is an MVP, v1 of the product and v0.1 of the company. Judge it as such, with the understanding that things will evolve and grow, or not.<p>2 thoughts on YC, 1 on the company.<p>ON YC:<p>YC&#x27;s model is: place lots of small bets. They have presumably grown considerably in the last 10+ years, and are likely now managing a lot more capital than they were initially, which means they need to place many more tiny bets than they initially were. YC accepts many teams who just apply as a team.<p>In other words, YC is not <i>really</i> in the business of evaluating ideas; they evaluate founders and give them money depending probably 80% on the founding team and 20% on the idea.<p>ON THE COMPANY:<p>On the company&#x2F;product, calendar-ing is a relatively high leverage problem. Everyone on the (digital) planet uses a calendar every single day. Scheduling stuff is a nightmare. Being on time for stuff is a nightmare. Apple Calendar sucks. Google Calendar sucks. I assume Microsoft Office calendar also sucks. If you solve this problem in a better way to the extent people are willing to pay for it (not to be underestimated, see Superhuman), there is a large direct and indirect market for such software. Now, if you have a successful calendar app, you could do something like calendly, which is already a billion dollar company.<p>Try to remember, a lot of companies that come out of YC are in MONTH 3 of their lifecycle. The initial footprint can look small, but dig a little deeper and a lot there. Small footprint, big ideas.
exabrial大约 4 年前
I haven&#x27;t seen a lot of &quot;hard&quot; startups, more like &quot;lets chuck money at this and see if people buy it and then get out after 3 years&quot; companies of late.
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alexhutcheson大约 4 年前
YC and other seed investors are betting more on people than on the specific business plan. If a founding team seems really smart, skilled, and driven, but is working on an idea that doesn’t seem to make immediate business sense, then it can still be worth betting on that team, because one of two things is reasonably likely to happen:<p>1. The team realizes that the business plan isn’t viable, and they pivot to something else, which might be.<p>2. The team was actually perceiving an opportunity you didn’t understand, and the idea ends up being a big success.<p>This doesn’t have to work out all the time, or even most of the time - if you fund even one team that ends up pivoting into a runaway success, it pays for all the “bad” (in hindsight) bets that didn’t pay off.
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fallingknife大约 4 年前
People misunderstand YC&#x27;s business model. They invest 125K for a 7% stake in the company. That&#x27;s a &lt;$2 million valuation. If this company sells a couple thousand (at $120&#x2F;y), YC breaks even. If they sell a couple million, YC gets back 1000x on their money. It&#x27;s a great investment.
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RicoElectrico大约 4 年前
My conclusion also, judging from a few latest Launch HN&#x27;s that are prone to be featurized by the competition instead of building an ecosystem. Or being a good idea, but without a unicorn potential even if you strech your imagination. But I guess they only care about successful exits at a valuation that will make return on their investment.<p>Or they may see what we mere mortals can&#x27;t see.
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nkotov大约 4 年前
I went through YC S20 and it&#x27;s been amazing. It opened up a whole new world to me that I previously didn&#x27;t have access to. I come from a poor, immigrant family with no fancy college background. I&#x27;m located in a non-tech hub city. This was my first startup and getting to partake in YC essentially put me and my company on the map. The internal network itself is also fantastic and the value of having group partners (mine were founders of several companies that you all used) who have experience.<p>I think a lot of people miss the fact that YC at the end of the day doesn&#x27;t care about the actual idea &#x2F; product but if there is a way it could be used by millions and if there is a path from this widget to something bigger. It&#x27;s just the MVP and seems to be pretty successful considering it has paying users already. At the end of the day, YC funds people, not companies. If they think you have some potential and can prove it with a little bit of traction or some background or having the right team. There were numerous companies in our batch that pivoted once they started the batch.
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lnanek2大约 4 年前
As a developer 70% of my time is in XCode and Github. Guess where the rest is? Google Calendar and Google Hangout. I discount Gmail because I just use my phone for that, swiping away messages while compiling. Want to know where my boss is from 7am to 7pm every day? Google Calendar and Google Hangout.<p>Calendar is a really bad product that needs disruption as well. I imported my victor ops on call schedule the other day and it imported wrong, so then I had to go through an entire year of two meetings a day fixing it, something that would have taken 10 seconds if they let you search and delete results.<p>Re Mac only, the first stage of a startup is finding product market fit. It isn&#x27;t about making your product work on every platform. In fact that&#x27;s counter productive. The goal is to have the shortest build-release-learn cycle, if you are porting to multiple platforms, you just increased your build time, which increases your cycle time, which means you will take longer to reach product market fit. Once you do, you can go port to every platform, but it&#x27;s harmful to do it early.
realmod大约 4 年前
I think people are overlooking the third sentence in the post, which clearly states that they were accepted to build a video lecture platform but then later pivoted to this productivity tool. I don&#x27;t think YC would invest in a trivial product like this, even if the team had higher aspirations, but that is going off the very basic knowledge I have of YC.
s_dev大约 4 年前
Paul Graham: Startups at the begginning are alot more fragile than people think. It may be the case they&#x27;ve very little to show.<p>I&#x27;m not seeing some tipping point here. YC has always had startups that were a bit funny or outright weak sounding -- their investment strategy pretty much means the idea must initially sound bad in the pitch. They&#x27;re aiming for things that are counter intutitive to give them an advantage.
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908B64B197大约 4 年前
As pointed out here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=26435782" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=26435782</a> there&#x27;s already a free mac utility that does exactly what they are doing.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.mowglii.com&#x2F;itsycal&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.mowglii.com&#x2F;itsycal&#x2F;</a><p>Syncs to Google Calendar and just... works?
brhsagain大约 4 年前
Did nobody bother to read the original post and OP’s responses? They are clearly aiming to be more than just a calendar, but rather a centralized place and improved UX for all of your notifications, including apps that don’t currently support easy notifications (e.g. Github).<p>You may not think that’s valuable, they may not succeed at realizing that vision, but it is clearly not a case of “Mac only calendar menu bar app gets YC funding.”<p>The lack of intellectual humility here is alarming. I don’t see the value in this thing selected by a 16-year investor, who actually has skin in the game to pick successful startups? Maybe there is something I’m not seeing. No, that can’t be it, YC must just be stupid.
gpjanik大约 4 年前
It&#x27;s an MVP. MVP of Stripe was a HTML form and a bunch of guys on the phone. The Author definitely should apply to Y Combinator to understand how startups can leverage small products to get off the ground in the pursuit for a bigger idea.
rvz大约 4 年前
In ~2016:<p>Something was going to get sherlocked by a big fruit company or reinvented by a Chrome Extension for free or integrated into their own taskbar by a trillion dollar software company.<p>Am I right f.lux? I don&#x27;t think we&#x27;ll get an answer from this company if the &#x27;competition&#x27; decides to go the way on what they did to f.lux.
artembugara大约 4 年前
The product itself might not be a huge thing, right.<p>However, it might be just a little tiny thing that they want to do. They launched ASAP. They&#x27;ve got some feedback. Etc.<p>Next thing might be that they will reinvent the way we use calendars. Who knows? Not YC. But they will give it a shot.<p>You start small (even if you have a trillion dollar ambitions), you grow.
beervirus大约 4 年前
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;old.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;Entrepreneur&#x2F;comments&#x2F;m2ypbx&#x2F;has_y_combinator_lost_its_way_as_a_leading&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;old.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;Entrepreneur&#x2F;comments&#x2F;m2ypbx&#x2F;has_y_...</a><p>Fixed link.
uptown大约 4 年前
I&#x27;m more interested in their privacy policy:<p>&quot;SHARING YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION: We share your Personal Information with third parties (analytics tools) to help us use your Personal Information, as described above. We use analytics tools to track our users to improve our product and provide a better experience.&quot;<p>Calendars, like contact lists, like emails, like all of the other personal content people produce everyday is sensitive. In lieu of saying how this is protected, apart from just saying it&#x27;s simply used to make things better, I&#x27;m reluctant to link any accounts containing sensitive personal data to startups in search of a revenue-generating business model.
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obayesshelton大约 4 年前
“No more looking for the Google calendar tab in Chrome.” Gustaf Alströmer<p>Said nobody ever!<p>It is literally three clicks away...<p>1. New Tab 2. Click dotted square 3. Click cal button
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lacker大约 4 年前
It sounds less trivial than an app that lets you put filters on your photos.
growt大约 4 年前
After a brief search, because I like the functionality and dislike the price point I found this: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;apps.apple.com&#x2F;us&#x2F;app&#x2F;id1532419400" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;apps.apple.com&#x2F;us&#x2F;app&#x2F;id1532419400</a><p>Open source, free (both as in beer and freedom), small memory footprint.<p>Previous discussion here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23991111" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23991111</a>
dillondoyle大约 4 年前
Wow this is relevant to me right now and I would love any (probably a bit blind to you) opinions:<p>We are thinking of applying for a political accelerator. Probably a long shot but who knows and IDK even know if I want to spent near 100% of my time on something like this.<p>But this is exactly my concern - that maybe we don&#x27;t have enough of an &#x27;app&#x27;?<p>Right now the functionality sits inside a plugin on a 3rd party service. It&#x27;s pretty full featured though replicating features of another standalone organizing app but within a different context.<p>This is also building tools on top of cross-platform messaging so that&#x27;s also relying on more 3rd parties - FB particularly i think probably could get rid of Messenger API they keep restricting it gradually. But the others are more stable and email&#x2F;sms&#x2F;chat will always be open. Read hear all the time don&#x27;t base 100% of your business on FB... Which this isn&#x27;t but still it&#x27;s a big value of it.<p>I also built other organizing tools that work together with this that might expand features to be more of a multi-product, but again probably 50% of that is built to work with another 3rd party SaaS!
sharker8大约 4 年前
I know someone who raised over 50M to improve technical presales. If anyone has ever worked in this context they&#x27;ll know it&#x27;s inefficient. First product: a chrome extension that does time tracking. The question is will this succeed because of the money raised, the domain knowledge of the founders, or the quality of the product? Or some combination of the above.
jedberg大约 4 年前
I think this is actually a perfect example of YC finding its way again! They found a team they believed in, said, &quot;Go build&quot; and let them run. Then they dropped what they were doing and did something else. That&#x27;s exactly how YC should be, and used to be.<p>My complaint with YC lately is the exact opposite -- they keep investing in companies that have product market fit and profits. Those are great derisked investments, but not at all what YC used to do, which was investing in people, sometimes without any company at all.<p>They&#x27;ve done a good job of moving back towards those types of investments, but Demo Day is still filled with, &quot;Hi, we&#x27;re the top experts in our field and we started a company a few years ago and have $1MM+ ARR and are profitable but we want investment to grow faster&quot;. And a lot of those companies look like they&#x27;ll settle into a nice low 9-figure valuation, which is great for the company and YC, but boring for someone looking for the moonshots YC used to be known for.
peterthehacker大约 4 年前
I think that this is an important question and I disagree that “YC has lost its way”. I think that we’re seeing more and more companies come out of YC that have a bottom up, Growth&#x2F;Product focus instead of the traditional Sales&#x2F;Tech focus B2B companies have historically had, which makes companies like this look like nothing special tech-wise, but look at their love on PH . They’re onto something.<p>Martin Casado, from a16z, has a great post&#x2F;talk about this trend. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;a16z.com&#x2F;2019&#x2F;08&#x2F;09&#x2F;video-growth-sales-and-a-new-era-of-b2b&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;a16z.com&#x2F;2019&#x2F;08&#x2F;09&#x2F;video-growth-sales-and-a-new-era...</a>
shp0ngle大约 4 年前
Nah, I don&#x27;t think they should micro-manage all companies in their portfolio whether they fit their &quot;brand image&quot;.<p>This app is ridiculous, but maybe they had a good pitch or whatever, who knows.<p>And if you have such a giant portfolio, they cannot all be diamonds.
secondbreakfast大约 4 年前
I clicked through thinking I&#x27;d agree this is silly, but this is an incredibly compelling app.<p>Downloaded and got it set up in less than 2 minutes. Already in love. Weighing if $10&#x2F;mo is worth it and my immediate reaction isn&#x27;t &quot;No&quot;
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mathattack大约 4 年前
I will believe YC has lost its way when every idea they back seems obvious up front.
newusertoday大约 4 年前
Because they are betting on founders not the product, product will change based on market response to it remember segment?what it was when it was initially funded and what it became after pivot. In a way it is similar to asking why do you want to hire developer who does not have experience with xyz tech? this doesn&#x27;t looks outrageous as we know experienced developer will eventually be able to learn and that is why we are hiring him&#x2F;her. This is similar essentially we are betting on person not product&#x2F;technology.
ThomPete大约 4 年前
A widget is just one way to express the business.<p>If you are lucky enough to solve a complex problem and deliver value expressed in a simple widget, that is a perfect starting point for a much bigger business.
theonemind大约 4 年前
They&#x27;re in the business of making bad looking bets with limited downside and unlimited upside and losing most of them. Judging them for making stupid looking bets misses the point entirely. You can only judge the final results by percentage of winners and losers <i>in the end</i> and how <i>big</i> the winners are.<p>That&#x27;s what they do. They make stupid looking bets. That&#x27;s the business. If that hurts their brand with anyone, then that person didn&#x27;t understand what they&#x27;re doing anyway.
jrumbut大约 4 年前
Realizing a meeting is starting right now and then struggling to extract the Zoom link because the invite writer put it in some non-standard field or there&#x27;s a surprise and it&#x27;s some other meeting software happens often enough it&#x27;s close to $10&#x2F;month worth of pain.<p>I guess what I would worry about is can they handle strange link placement, different meeting software, and times when I&#x27;m double or triple booked with different meetings?
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aseerdbnarng大约 4 年前
This is a bad take! The joys of markets are you don’t know upfront what will or won&#x27;t work and weirdness needs to be celebrated not looked down upon.
jeffreyrogers大约 4 年前
This is like asking if Toyota has lost its way because they make a crappy car one year. Except even sillier because the whole model of YC is to fund speculative things knowing that most won&#x27;t be that valuable.<p>Also, tough to judge a company by its earliest incarnation. I thought Facebook was pretty dumb when I first heard about it, but they turned out fine.
AlexandrB大约 4 年前
Y Combinator lost its way when it started funding predatory lending companies like LendUp. This is trivial by comparison.
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drcode大约 4 年前
Well I guess the first order narrative around ycombinator is that they were successful by seeing opportunities that other investors missed. They think that you&#x27;re like one of those investors, dismissing a company because they &quot;are only creating a widget&quot;.<p>(Though certainly your assessment could be accurate, regardless)
starwatch大约 4 年前
&gt; The question to ask about an early stage startup is not &quot;is this company taking over the world?&quot; but &quot;how big could this company get if the founders did the right things?&quot;<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;paulgraham.com&#x2F;ds.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;paulgraham.com&#x2F;ds.html</a>
Invictus0大约 4 年前
It&#x27;s hardly the dumbest thing to come out of YCombinator.<p>I think the other thing to remember is that these guys started with a videocall platform for professors, which is what won the pitch with the partners. Then they got cold feet and pivoted to this.<p>I also don&#x27;t think a single bad investment ruins the YC brand.
haolez大约 4 年前
Maybe the Y Combinator board invested in the team, and not the idea&#x2F;product? I&#x27;d be on that.
ninenines大约 4 年前
It also is very disheartening to see few launch HN&#x27;s not even getting 20-30 up votes.<p>I can&#x27;t even dare to imagine how demotivating it can be for the founders. I really wish YC can cater to as many startups as it can and hope the reason for this is not the growing batch sizes.
snarkypixel大约 4 年前
Why invest in Microsoft back then? It was just a Basic compiler.<p>Need to start somewhere before leaping to the next step, and momemtum creates momemtum.<p>Amazon started with books. Paypal started with Ebay sellers or something. Airbnb started with couch sharing. Etc.
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the-dude大约 4 年前
Although I had similar thoughts, one always needs to keep an open mind about what it can grow into.<p>In the thread, it was obvious that for some people it would alleviate a pain : keeping track of synchronous events across multiple platforms.
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ghiculescu大约 4 年前
I agree this product seems a bit uninspiring, but it is ironic that this complaint was posted on Reddit, which you could probably have made similar complaints about back in the day.
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krm01大约 4 年前
According to OP, YC would have lost its ways had it invested in TheFacebook. Why would anyone invest in a harvard exclusive social network.
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bernardv大约 4 年前
The whole industry is overhyped. But until investors keep throwing money at it, it will continue. Until it investors turn-off the tap.
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beaconstudios大约 4 年前
... and Tesla started out selling small-batch sports cars to rich people. Long-term strategy often involves stepping stones.
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bitwize大约 4 年前
A Mac-only widget sounds like a profitable enterprise. Mac users still buy their software, like the old days.
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spamizbad大约 4 年前
My guess is they made an investment in the team rather than the product. Nothing wrong with that.
the_cat_kittles大约 4 年前
did y combinator ever find its way to begin with? besides making money, have any really useful things been funded by them? airbnb is the only one i can think of that is something im actually glad exists
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philip1209大约 4 年前
You can question YC&#x27;s process, but its results are indisputable.
criddell大约 4 年前
Maybe they are investing more in the founders than the product?
sjg007大约 4 年前
They said they pivoted from a video lecture platform which isn&#x27;t a bad idea. There&#x27;s plenty of opportunity in that space as well. I have kids distance learning and I have suggestions to improve things massively. That we have a vaccine now probably means that distance learning will end except in the cases where people like it. But there&#x27;s a massive amount of opportunity around interactive whiteboarding.<p>So the question is what does the status bar enable? That&#x27;s the opportunity. I think of and want zapier in my status bar. I don&#x27;t work for these guys but rather than dis the company let&#x27;s figure out how to make them successful.<p>I&#x27;d give a basic product away for free and focus on integrations.
tosh大约 4 年前
big things have small beginnings
gtCameron大约 4 年前
“Has Y Combinator lost its way when the latest company is a backup app you can already build such yourself quite trivially by getting an FTP account, mounting it locally with curlftpfs, and then using SVN or CVS on the mounted filesystem”
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draw_down大约 4 年前
<i>“No more looking for the Google calendar tab in Chrome.” - Gustaf Alströmer</i><p><i>“I just joined a meeting 3 minutes late instead of 5 because of Superpowered, which is a resounding success in my book.” - Jeff Barg</i><p>Well, I must admit this is not the most compelling sales pitch in the world. It almost seems like satire. I understand the utility, but the calendar tab is ok.