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Amazon will not sell books that 'frame sexual identity as mental illness'

59 点作者 digikazi大约 4 年前

14 条评论

high_derivative大约 4 年前
This seems on the surface about protecting LGBTQ+, but it seems the kicker is really about treatment for transgender teenagers.<p>There is a movement to stop any kind of discussion about therapy on gender dysphoria other than transition. Trans activists seek to cast all therapeutic interventions other than transitioning in the same light as conversion therapy.<p>I think we will deal with the fallout of this activism for decades to come: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.thetimes.co.uk&#x2F;article&#x2F;calls-to-end-transgender-experiment-on-children-k792rfj7d" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.thetimes.co.uk&#x2F;article&#x2F;calls-to-end-transgender-...</a>
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inglor_cz大约 4 年前
I wonder why huge corporations let themselves be dragged into the dark vortex of culture wars. There is nothing to gain in that blood- and vitriol soaked trenches.<p>Or do they hope to buy themselves lenience from progressive politicians in coming cartel investigations? Will AOC (who famously helped to kill a NY Amazon project) start to love Amazon now that <i>books that &#x27;frame sexual identity as mental illness&#x27;</i> are banished from its pages?
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bjeds大约 4 年前
My, possibly naive, view is that this has nothing to do with the &quot;benefactor&quot; of a policy (transgender people, in this case). It is more about power, politics and influence for the people who institute the policy.<p>15-20 years ago, working in tech was a good job in the sense that being a mechanical engineer, doctor, or lawyer was a good job.<p>Today, these are the most powerful, richest, and most influential companies in the world, and people who like power are involving themselves more than they used to.<p>15-20 years ago, these companies were more meritocratic in a domain knowledge sense: the &quot;nerds&quot; were powerful because they had knowledge and could build stuff.<p>Nowadays &quot;politicians&quot; (in the corporate sense, people good at office politics) have realized they cannot compete with the nerds who&#x27;ve been building stuff since they were kids, so to get a piece of the pie there&#x27;s a political fight to redefine what&#x27;s important.<p>Now &quot;values&quot; are important instead. Those who have the values have the power and influence.<p>I&#x27;m personally looking to move to a different industry than the tech companies. Some industry with less power and less prestige. Those will attract more interesting people who care about what&#x27;s important.
SunlightEdge大约 4 年前
Call me niave, but what is wrong with conversion therapy in theory?<p>I get the historic roots of it being linked with anti-gay&#x2F;LGBT activities and it being problematic about &#x27;fixing&#x27; what essentially are healthy sexual functioning (e.g. it&#x27;s fine to be gay).<p>But it&#x27;s not black and white and surely &#x27;some&#x27; gay&#x2F;bi men and women suffer distress and would prefer to be straight.<p>And likewise for &#x27;trans&#x27; children and adults - perhaps there are effective ways to reduce&#x2F;eliminate gender dysphoria. Do such methods really always have to seem bad.<p>Note: I am neutral on this &#x2F; have many gay friends. It&#x27;s purely from a theoretical perspective.
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dependsontheq大约 4 年前
Every bookstore in history has made decisions about which books to sell and which not. Amazon in this case is just a bookstore and should make a decision, if it’s market power is too big we should split it apart ( an online bookshop is not any kind of regulated utility and should never be one).
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auganov大约 4 年前
I wish more would just rally against the concept of mental illness itself. It&#x27;s such a ridiculous concept and it&#x27;s exactly moments like these that reveal how it&#x27;s nothing more than whatever people want it to be. Until we&#x27;ve got mind reading technology most of psychology and psychiatry will remain glorified polling.
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blub大约 4 年前
You may want to buy the acclaimed books &quot;Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters&quot; and &quot;The end of gender&quot; before Amazon virtually burns them.
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dalbasal大约 4 年前
Are we having a discussion about amazon having censorial power, or how amazon should wield this power?<p>The vast majority of decisions at amazon don&#x27;t attract media attention. They&#x27;re just decisions. Sell this. Promote that. Reorder. Don&#x27;t reorder. If you control 75% of the book market... you are censor-ish. even if these decisions are neutral, they still shape the book business in a censor-like way.<p>Amazon are sitting in a censorial <i>seat</i>. So are the other, content-centric monopolies like google &amp; facebook. Youtube videos, websites, blogs, books, etc. When you go to produce one of these, you consider: <i>what will google&#x2F;fb&#x2F;amzn think? Will it appear in feeds? Will it rank? Will it get an 18+ rating?</i>. What makes or doesn&#x27;t make that censorship is market share. A &quot;true&quot; censor, censors all the papers. An editor only edits one. If there is only one magazine, magazine censorship is default.<p>In any case, I find a lot of current anti-censorship discussions off-mark. There appears to be some cultural&#x2F;moral&#x2F;normative shifts in boardrooms. Are you unhappy with the power in those boardrooms, or with whatever specific decision got made last tuesday. I get the feeling that the latter is the main one.
xiphias2大约 4 年前
This was banned:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;m.barnesandnoble.com&#x2F;w&#x2F;when-harry-became-sally-ryan-anderson&#x2F;1125792437" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;m.barnesandnoble.com&#x2F;w&#x2F;when-harry-became-sally-ryan-...</a>
tyronehed大约 4 年前
How fascinating it is to see conservatives being all about the free market until it goes against them. Indeed, Amazon is a private business and they certainly have the right to sell only those items they deem worth of selling. In the same way they decline to sell neo-Nazi paraphernalia, they have the right to refuse to sell anti-LGBTQ+ objects. A similar, equally-fascinating example is the outrage conservatives express when those other free enterprises called Google and Facebook decline to allow individuals such as the former president on their platforms. Consistency is a bitch.
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kodah大约 4 年前
I came here to learn about the current state of the trans community and learned nothing because of a lot of dissenting information in either direction. This is my attempt to consolidate and learn from facts, feel free to correct things or add to this in the thread.<p>- A number of folks invoke what they&#x27;ve heard people who call themselves activists say only to get a response from someone saying that&#x27;s not a <i>real</i> activist. On one hand this is akin to <i>no true Scotsman</i> and on the other I can see the situation that invokes, &quot;that doesn&#x27;t represent me&quot; as difficult to process. It might be helpful if HN users who are knowledgeable can educate the non-educated on who <i>actual</i> trans activists are so that when the non-educated are hearing a reactionary voice they are able to identify that to themselves and others.<p>- Russia has a very wide law that patently shuts down <i>any</i> conversation about trans-people and adjacently gay folks as well: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Russian_gay_propaganda_law" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Russian_gay_propaganda_law</a><p>- Some non-zero amount of trans folk do not approve of the Tavistock Center in the NHS (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.thetimes.co.uk&#x2F;article&#x2F;calls-to-end-transgender-experiment-on-children-k792rfj7d" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.thetimes.co.uk&#x2F;article&#x2F;calls-to-end-transgender-...</a>). Earlier&#x2F;easier access to hormone blockers seems to be one complaint, but ill-preparing patients for &quot;immediate and long term consequences&quot; seems to be another which a high court recently ruled on. (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.itv.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;london&#x2F;2021-01-20&#x2F;tavistock-centre-child-gender-identity-services-rated-inadequate-by-cqc" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.itv.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;london&#x2F;2021-01-20&#x2F;tavistock-centre-...</a>)<p>- Hormone blocking seems to be the main course of treatment in children <i>while in therapy</i> (that last part also seems very key). The intent behind this is that a child and their parents can make the choice to transition without having to undo the affects of puberty in the future which are costly and painful. The Mayo Clinic says that the only long term affects with puberty blockers has to do with bone density and fertility. (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.mayoclinic.org&#x2F;diseases-conditions&#x2F;gender-dysphoria&#x2F;in-depth&#x2F;pubertal-blockers&#x2F;art-20459075" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.mayoclinic.org&#x2F;diseases-conditions&#x2F;gender-dyspho...</a>)<p>- Some non-zero amount of kids struggle with gender identity <i>because</i> they&#x27;re struggling with sexuality in societies that openly struggle with accepting more diverse sexuality (being gay). This points to a need for continued societal growth in order to impact the medical system less.<p>- The article centers around a book called When Harry Became Sally written by Ryan Anderson who is clearly a religious <i>and</i> conservative voice (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;Ryan-T-Anderson&#x2F;e&#x2F;B00A0P0MR6?ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1&amp;qid=1615659930&amp;sr=8-1" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;Ryan-T-Anderson&#x2F;e&#x2F;B00A0P0MR6?ref=sr_n...</a>)
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bongoman37大约 4 年前
So its interesting that books like &#x27;Mein Kampf&#x27; are fine and available in 10s of translations but books like above are banned.
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chordalkeyboard大约 4 年前
This is probably fine because mental illness is an ill-defined category. One hopes they will remain consistent. Unless it gets <i>problematic</i> and then we will just have to be content with inconsistency about things we care about.
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NestedLoopGoBrr大约 4 年前
This was already posted yesterday and ended up being an absolute disaster of a thread, filled with many people expressing their conviction that transgender individuals are suffering from a delusion. I really hope dang is paying attention this time, because if this is the kind of discourse Hacker News and by extension, YCombinator considers to be reflective of the beliefs of the community, it says a lot about whether or not trans members are welcome here or at YC at all.
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