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Microsoft tried a 4-day workweek in Japan. Productivity jumped 40%

348 点作者 heshiebee大约 4 年前

24 条评论

getoj大约 4 年前
Posting to a top-level comment: The productivity claim has been removed from the Japanese report[0]. An erratum at the bottom of the page dated November 8, 2019 says this:<p>&quot;In the announcement dated October 31, one of the listed &quot;improvements&quot; from the 2019 Summer Work-Life Choice Challenge was an increase of 39.9% in labor productivity (sales revenue per employee) in August 2019 compared to August 2018, with a graph below.<p>&quot;While this number is factual, it is not solely the result of this challenge, and was achieved due to a number of different factors.<p>&quot;To avoid misunderstanding, we have removed that claim from the above summary of the direct effects of the challenge.&quot;<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.microsoft.com&#x2F;ja-jp&#x2F;2019&#x2F;10&#x2F;31&#x2F;191031-published-the-results-of-measuring-the-effectiveness-of-our-work-life-choice-challenge-summer-2019&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.microsoft.com&#x2F;ja-jp&#x2F;2019&#x2F;10&#x2F;31&#x2F;191031-published...</a>
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amir734jj大约 4 年前
I work at a financial company (200B assets) writing software to analyze bond market. When pandemic started and stock crashed, our software didn&#x27;t expect such a market crash (obviously, it&#x27;s called a pandemic ...), so I had to work 80+ hours to get it fixed as everyone else who worked on the application already left and the new people didn&#x27;t have any clue. Fast forward to the post-mortem phase which also happened to be annual review time, my manager told me I am a toxic person and I made everything worse during the crisis.<p>To make the matter worse the night when everything was fixed, I was on my way home at 3:30am and I got a speeding ticket for going 60mph over the limit. I fell asleep behind the wheel, thank God I&#x27;m still alive.<p>I left that team immediately, and exactly one year has passed and they haven&#x27;t been able to find another person to replace me but what bothers me is they promoted that manager because I left and he got all the credit.<p>In summary, I will never ever work over 40 hours for any company.
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missedthecue大约 4 年前
<i>&quot; While the amount of time spent at work was cut dramatically, productivity — measured by sales per employee — went up by almost 40% compared to the same period the previous year&quot;</i><p>Is sales per employee really an appropriate proxy for &#x27;productivity&#x27;? The original report is entirely in Japanese, so I&#x27;m not really sure exactly how they are calculating productivity... is this a sales office?<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.microsoft.com&#x2F;ja-jp&#x2F;2019&#x2F;10&#x2F;31&#x2F;191031-published-the-results-of-measuring-the-effectiveness-of-our-work-life-choice-challenge-summer-2019&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.microsoft.com&#x2F;ja-jp&#x2F;2019&#x2F;10&#x2F;31&#x2F;191031-published...</a>
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orblivion大约 4 年前
A Japanese acquaintance once told me that an office he worked at once instituted a strict &quot;go home at the end of the day&quot; policy to prevent people from staying late. I guess there&#x27;s a sort of cultural pressure not to be the first one out of the office (which I can actually <i>sort of</i> understand; I feel weird leaving early).<p>Apparently it worked out really well. Either similar or improved output. However after a management changeover things went back to as before. It&#x27;s a cultural hurdle, sounds like.
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mrtksn大约 4 年前
Findings like these that suggest a fundamental shift in our work life dramatically makes things better for everyone(be it the schedule changed or basic universal income or remote work) keep appearing all the time but we don&#x27;t see a mass adoption of any of it, maybe with the exception of remote working after being forced to do it due to Covid-19.<p>Are there any follow ups to the &quot;Finland gave everyone living wage regardless of their employment and the productivity doubled&quot; or &quot;Denmark switched to 3 days a week and the profits actually increased&quot; sort of stories?<p>The article is from 2019, did Microsoft actually recouped the returns that %40 increase from the 4-day workweek brings?<p>I&#x27;m getting numbed down to these stories, just like the ads about this one weird trick that makes you rich or helps you to be instantly liked by all the men&#x2F;women.
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olyjohn大约 4 年前
Microsoft should probably try a 5 day &#x2F; 40 hour workweek here in the US some time. From what I was told at a few interviews there, and from friends who work there, 50 hours a week is pretty much normal and expected. Sounds terrible, and I&#x27;m not sad to not work there.
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908B64B197大约 4 年前
Careful. Some cultures in Asia have a strong culture of appearing to work hard solely based on time spent in the office.<p>The Japanese salaryman comes to mind [0]<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Salaryman" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Salaryman</a>
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ekianjo大约 4 年前
&gt; The initiative is timely. Japan has long grappled with a grim — and in some cases, fatal — culture of overwork. The problem is so severe, the country has even coined a term for it: karoshi means death by overwork from stress-induced illnesses or severe depression.<p>I love the ignorant CNN contributors there. You can really see the full effect of people commenting about cultures they do not know or do not understand.<p>First, &#x27;overwork&#x27; is not what you think. Most of work done in Japanese companies is not busy work. Long hours are often the result of excessive bureaucracy and long meetings, and the expectation that you&#x27;ll go out for dinner (maybe not everyday, but regularly enough) with your peers as a form of social bonding at the end of the day (something that is not really a thing in other cultures). If you don&#x27;t understand that aspect of the culture, well you don&#x27;t understand anything at all really.<p>As for coining words. Japanese people have a coin word for everything under the sun, even mundane things that foreigners would have no expression for. It&#x27;s a culture that loves making new words, new expressions, new acronyms - very much in the DNA of the Japanese language, so there&#x27;s no &quot;even coined a term for X&quot; that remotely means anything at all. Niche phenomena also coined specific words, and it does not mean there&#x27;s a massive trend going on.<p>You should be a lot more concerned by the number of suicides in Japan than by the number of people dying from overwork - it&#x27;s not even on the same scale at all.
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wnevets大约 4 年前
I wonder what the percentage of any perceived productivity increase is due to the reduction of time spent in meetings. Management has less hours to appear they&#x27;re doing management things so they&#x27;re forced to have less meetings. I feel like my productivity is so much higher when I don&#x27;t need to worry about meetings.<p>&quot;No point digging into this important task, it&#x27;s 30 minutes before that meeting. I guess I&#x27;ll kill time looking at hacker news&quot;<p>&quot;I&#x27;m exhausted from having be part of that meeting, I need 30 minutes or so to recharge before I dig into that important task.&quot;<p>&quot;There&#x27;s a follow up email to that meeting, I guess I should I should read it before digging into that important task&quot;
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yaseer大约 4 年前
If I were making socks in a factory, the more hours I put in, the more socks will be output (to a limit).<p>If I were a creative, composing music, the relationship is not so linear. Your creative output may significantly benefit from more time off.<p>The optimum number of hours is really going to vary with job role.
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tpmx大约 4 年前
Why are you reposting news from November 2019 without labelling it as such?<p>I remember it being heavily discussed back then:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=21433710" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=21433710</a> (210 comments)<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=21441689" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=21441689</a> (242 comments)
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jasode大约 4 年前
At least 2 other things to think about when reading workplace experiments like this:<p>1) Hawthorne Effect when workers are aware of being observed in response to a novel change: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Hawthorne_effect" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Hawthorne_effect</a><p>2) Difficulty and disagreement in measuring the <i>success</i> of a change: E.g. France has had 20+ years of the 35-hour work week and there&#x27;s <i>still debate</i> on whether it was successful. : <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;35-hour_workweek#Criticism" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;35-hour_workweek#Criticism</a>
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didibus大约 4 年前
I&#x27;d be curious to see a similar study for a 6 day workweek. In a way, if a 6 day work week increases productivity as well, it becomes more curious that 4 day would too.<p>I say that because I think the challenge here is measuring productivity, and people are just mentally skeptical that less working hours could equal more productivity. I hope it is true, but I too feel like really?<p>So maybe a counter data-point could make things clearer. If the 6 day experiment has worse outcome, at least we&#x27;d start to suspect that overworking might be detrimental to output. And that could reinforce the theory of 4 day work week.
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yosito大约 4 年前
On a related note: when I intentionally time-box just 2 hours for focused work in a day, I usually get more done than when I sit in front of my computer from the time I wake up until the time I go to bed.
PragmaticPulp大约 4 年前
Does anyone have any links to a different study on 4-hour work weeks?<p>I’ve seen this same 4-week trial shared on every discussion of 4-day workweeks for years. It was such a small and short trial that the results look more like an outlier than a long-term trend.<p>If I was an employee at one of these companies and management hinted that we could have Fridays off as long as it didn’t decrease productivity during a 4-week trial, I would definitely work extra hard during those 4 weeks. I don’t know if we can extrapolate much from this short trial among sales people.
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stjohnswarts大约 4 年前
While I think that productivity increases when people are happier and more excited about their job&#x2F;life balance I think 40% would be impossible over the long haul. That said I would love a 4 day work week and I may make that a stipulation in my next contract. 3 days to do what I want sounds glorius.
_carbyau_大约 4 年前
When I joined the fulltime workforce I got to wondering:<p>&quot;If everyone is meant to be working fulltime, who is out there being a customer to sell to?&quot;<p>Maybe society could try a 4 day &amp; 3 day &quot;work weeks&quot; with people only allowed to work one or the other by Tax office enforcement?
twodayrice大约 4 年前
Turns out that the productivity gain came from the fact that they wrote less code. Call me cynical.
arduinomancer大约 4 年前
Curious how HN feels.<p>If you could work 4 days&#x2F;week but your salary would be 1&#x2F;5 less would you do it?
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aasasd大约 4 年前
Seen plenty of such articles, but still waiting for a single one saying productivity doesn&#x27;t drop back after a few months.<p>(This is coming from someone who&#x27;s been working remotely and free hours for quite a while.)
vardaro大约 4 年前
I worked at a large co that did a 4&#x2F;10 work week schedule. I didn&#x27;t feel any more productive but I was certainly happier overall.
jacquesm大约 4 年前
Why didn&#x27;t they try it in the USA?
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agumonkey大约 4 年前
does productivity compose ? because reports of WFH improving productivity by 22% would make a nice bump on top.
trhway大约 4 年前
i&#x27;d guess that while a 4-day week de-jure, it was de-facto a 5-day week with 1 day being free of meetings, manager&#x27;s micromanagement, communication&amp;collaboration (like being able to ignore Slack for the whole day) and other corporate crap. In this case it would mean that the productivity in that 1 day grew 3x to result in that 40% growth for the whole week. Those 3x estimate pretty much matches my experience of how big the corporate crap is a drag on productivity.