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We are far from a better Heroku for production apps in a hyper cloud

253 点作者 rement大约 4 年前

61 条评论

cwhiz大约 4 年前
This is wild. Complains about having to read the Heroku documentation, and then goes through the steps to showcase how absurdly simple it is to deploy to Heroku with the CLI. It almost reads like an advertisement for Heroku.<p>...then goes on to show it could be done in GitLab in a more convoluted way. Ignores the fact that Heroku doesn&#x27;t require GitLab, and seems to not be aware that Heroku does not require the CLI to deploy.<p>...and the GL steps require that you have previously created an AWS account, IAM, and have the credentials.<p>At the end of it all, it&#x27;s obvious GL is using Terraform at the back end, anyway.<p>I&#x27;m left wondering why anyone would use this? Heroku is stupid easy to set up and get going, but you wouldn&#x27;t use it if your production demands were getting complicated. However, if your production demands were getting complicated you surely would not use this GL solution. This entire thing seems to be a solution in search of a problem. I don&#x27;t get it.<p>And ultimately I wouldn&#x27;t want my entire deployment pipeline to be dependent on my code hosting provider. GitLab just 5x&#x27;d their prices a few months ago. Going all in on them for your entire CI&#x2F;CD pipeline just seems crazy to me.
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danpalmer大约 4 年前
This post appears to be a comparison between deploying something on Heroku from scratch in 5 minutes, all-in, and someone knowledgeable about GitLab, GitLab CI and AWS, with accounts and credentials already created and configured, deploying something trivial in 6 minutes.<p>That&#x27;s quite a straw-man.<p>If I were GitLab, I wouldn&#x27;t be criticising the UX of companies known for excellent UX like Heroku while GitLab&#x27;s UX is in the state its in.
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jrochkind1大约 4 年前
So I think heroku has stagnated a bit, and I am definitely very open to &quot;better herokus&quot;.<p>But the idea that something you did in five minutes is going to be <i>better</i> than heroku (in all ways?) is.... I don&#x27;t know what the adjective is. Heroku is very mature and polished software, that almost always does what you expect -- it&#x27;s a very non-leaky abstraction, I guess. You can almost always get away with ignoring the details. (Yes, not 100%, but almost always). And there&#x27;s pretty high quality documentation explaining how all the parts work, when you do need to figure out something.<p>This is unlikely to be a &quot;better heroku&quot;, that solves all the problems heroku solves with as little time&#x2F;energy from the customer -- if it really is, this post definitely didn&#x27;t convince me of it, I still don&#x27;t totally understand what it&#x27;s even demo&#x27;ing. And it just makes gitlab look rude and&#x2F;or desperate to have a heading that&#x27;s simply &quot;Do not use Heroku&quot; -- because it&#x27;s not open source, is the argument, i guess? Plus a vague and sarcastic tweet? How would we feel if heroku (or github) had an article titled &quot;Do not use gitlab&quot; with no more of an argument than that? It&#x27;s just... childish.
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holografix大约 4 年前
&gt; A typical web app requires a database, storage or caching backend, which can get complicated to run with Heroku.<p>Plainly wrong. Easiest thing ever to spin a pg instance for free and have it immediately available for your app to use.<p>Better Heroku? Does it let you use a pipeline of dev, staging and prod? Does it auto create new copies of your app (db and other services included!) every time you issue a pull request? Does it destroy those apps&#x2F;services when you merge to master? Does it let you push to prod with one button? Integrated logs viewable on the web ui? Hell, integrated bash to a copy of your app in the web ui? Oh I forgot testing... webhooks... access control for other devs...<p>Better Heroku. Pathetic
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koolba大约 4 年前
&gt; Lots of CLI commands involved, and it did not run in a CI&#x2F;CD pipeline with additional tests before deploying it. Now the web application is deployed into a black box.<p>That&#x27;s just the other side of coin. If you want a simple &quot;push and it&#x27;s up!&quot; interface then Heroku is a shiny coin. If you want to sell multiple levels of CI pipelines then it looks rusty.<p>&gt; Want to use Let’s Encrypt and your own domain name?<p>I&#x27;ve never seen a platform that is easier to add Let&#x27;s Encrypt domain validated TLS than Heroku&#x27;s. Yes it&#x27;s manual steps, but it&#x27;s manual because you have to set up your DNS to point to their load balancer. I fail to see how much simpler it could be than that.<p>&gt; How about adding the deployment natively to GitLab to have a single application in your DevOps workflow?<p>&gt; # A better Heroku: The 5 minute production app<p>&gt; ... The documentation says to create a new AWS IAM role with credentials for automation.<p>Nothing that involves creating AWS accounts or IAM role creation would take five minutes for someone unfamiliar with AWS. And if does happen in less than five minutes than I guarantee you that new user either has no clue what they just created or (<i>boolean, not exclusive)</i> they&#x27;ve left some gaping wide hole in their IAM permissions.<p>I&#x27;m not saying that it can&#x27;t be done. I&#x27;m saying there is no way that creating all of that from scratch can be done simply, securely, and quickly for a new user.
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dubcanada大约 4 年前
People do not use Heroku because it takes 5 minutes to spin up a box. They use it because it&#x27;s super easy.<p>Click a button, bam deployed. Want to add a database, click what database you want, bam you got a database, environment variables set and a GUI (depending on what you pick). Want to scale up? Click a button, you&#x27;re now scaled up. Want a entire review system with staging links and everything? Setup the review process line and you&#x27;re done.<p>Everything is beyond easy and requires very little actual knowledge. You don&#x27;t need a bunch of silly yml configs or knowledge of how containers work. You just pick a button and setup your git repo and it deploys your app. Want to SSH in? Install the CLI tools and type heroku ps:exec, want to see the logs? Go to the logs error to type heroku logs.<p>They have a perfect dev environment, fairly decent CLI tooling, bulletproof battle tested deployment setup (minus they fact they go down basically every 2 days if you aren&#x27;t on the paid plans), and very little you need to understand.
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mvanga大约 4 年前
Honestly, this article presents a fairly ridiculous comparison. You could bump deploy times on Heroku to 20 minutes and I would still use it without a second thought. At best, I&#x27;ll complain a little louder.<p>Here&#x27;s step 1 from the article: The documentation says to create a new AWS IAM role with credentials for automation.<p>At this point, you&#x27;ve already failed. You are forcing more complexity on me than I have to care about when using Heroku. And the underlying complexity is worse. You need to be familiar with Gitlab&#x27;s CI&#x2F;CD pipelines. Your included YAML file hides all the complexity and uses all your magic variables: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gitlab.com&#x2F;gitlab-org&#x2F;5-minute-production-app&#x2F;deploy-template&#x2F;-&#x2F;raw&#x2F;stable&#x2F;deploy.yml" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gitlab.com&#x2F;gitlab-org&#x2F;5-minute-production-app&#x2F;deploy...</a><p>What happens when something breaks?<p>Quite literally, the only downside of Heroku is the pricing. Even that, I question for smaller teams where operational overhead can get way worse. I have yet to come across anything in the ballpark.<p>Anyway, this may still be a decent setup for deploying an app to AWS perhaps, but comparing to Heroku in the title is way off base.
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parasubvert大约 4 年前
Gitlab has been trying to be a PaaS for years, but seems to subscribe to the “add more shiny features” school of product design rather than addressing the fundamental workflow of Heroku or Cloud Foundry.<p>They are also being incredibly trite when they say “Do not use Heroku”, which is not at all the point of that Twitter thread, it’s a cheap way to push your own product.<p>The point Adam was making (which I don’t entirely agree with) was that we (the broader industry building PaaS features on Kubernetes - eg. Knative, others) are all chasing a design target from 2012 that he thinks is a dead end, and we should be trying new things.<p>I think the issue is less about the failure of Heroku as a design target than a failure to commodify the infrastructure it takes to get to Heroku-like ease of use. In other words, people like Heroku (or Cloud Foundry) but large market segments don’t want to pay for it. So we need to bring the price down by commodifying the tech.<p>Long run it would be nice to simplify broader classes of apps than “12 factor apps” (and indeed, I’ve seen “3 or 4 factor apps” run on these platforms), but for anyone that have seen the enormous productivity gains of those platforms, especially in a large company, it seems we still have a lot of low hanging fruit we can address.
the_duke大约 4 年前
I&#x27;m not sure how a blog post like this made it past any kind of review&#x2F;quality control&#x2F;PR in a 1000+ employee company.<p>Criticising other services is quite poor form already.<p>But then the criticism is a shallow dismissal by someone knowing nothing about Heroku, and with a minimal, odd example on top.<p>And the proposed alternative is running Terraform in a CI pipeline to set up AWS.<p>Yeah, that&#x27;s not why people use Heroku...<p>I&#x27;m usually positive towards Gitlab, but if I were them I would make this post disappear as quickly as possible, it&#x27;s that embarrassing.
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nakovet大约 4 年前
Alternatively, I tried using DigitalOcean app platform (side note: super hard to Google for help due to the generic name) and it was way harder than setting up Heroku, I invested multiple hours in a few days and when I finally got the app running I was not confident enough to proceed with the migration yet.<p>Things I&#x27;ve noticed: * Segmentation Fault when deploying a Rails app, Heroku just works. * Ability to add Postgres but no ability to add Redis in the same ecosystem, you have to step out of the app platform, Heroku just one click and you have Redis associated with your app and many other add-ons.<p>There is a lot of potential on Digital Ocean, it in its infancy, the thing I like the most about it is $ for spec, with a $50 Heroku dyno I get 1GB RAM at DO the specs are way superior.<p>The blogpost mentions CLI usage and the global naming issues, those are annoying sure, but not the breaking point for Heroku.<p>The biggest competitor to Heroku IMO it&#x27;s themselves. The fact their price remain the same even though specs and computational power has became way cheaper.<p>I would happily keep stuff in Heroku if they revisited their pricing policy.
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askonomm大约 4 年前
I feel like Gitlab is going in a direction of AWS, except that instead of having separate products it just bundles everything in one. One massive bloatware that&#x27;s scary to touch, no idea where features begin or end, or what is it even for in the end. Everything? I thought it was supposed to be Git hosting, but I&#x27;m not even sure anymore.
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dustinmoris大约 4 年前
Honestly I wish the GitLab CEO would stop this running around the bush thing here. We know exactly what happened. This is not just an innocent accident by an employee. I mean the title says it all... -&gt; &quot;We are building a better Heroku&quot;<p>People at GitLab, probably including sytse, have decided that it&#x27;s worthwhile to build a new Heroku competitor into GitLab.<p>Then someone was tasked to write a PR blog post about it.<p>Then sytse did what he always does with GitLab PR, they post it on HN and tell GitLab employees to upvote it to make HN front page...<p>... and now when it has backfired because people point out how ridiculous this sounds sytse tries to play it down by saying it was a poorly written accident and deflects the blame from his own wrongdoing and pushes it on that employee. What a poor form of a CEO.<p>---<p>EDIT:<p>Proving my point:<p>- Blog posts tracked on Corporate Marketing:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gitlab.com&#x2F;gitlab-com&#x2F;marketing&#x2F;corporate_marketing&#x2F;corporate-marketing&#x2F;-&#x2F;issues&#x2F;4360" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gitlab.com&#x2F;gitlab-com&#x2F;marketing&#x2F;corporate_marketing&#x2F;...</a><p>- Issue which mentions an internal Slack conversation where this was discussed:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gitlab.com&#x2F;gitlab-com&#x2F;www-gitlab-com&#x2F;-&#x2F;issues&#x2F;11063" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gitlab.com&#x2F;gitlab-com&#x2F;www-gitlab-com&#x2F;-&#x2F;issues&#x2F;11063</a><p>- PR which stated the release date of the post and was reviewed and approved by several people. It even had sytses (GitLab CEO) as an initial approver listed:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gitlab.com&#x2F;gitlab-com&#x2F;www-gitlab-com&#x2F;-&#x2F;merge_requests&#x2F;77170" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gitlab.com&#x2F;gitlab-com&#x2F;www-gitlab-com&#x2F;-&#x2F;merge_request...</a><p>- 5 minute production app epic tracking issues, milestones, marketing, etc.:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gitlab.com&#x2F;gitlab-org&#x2F;5-minute-production-app" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gitlab.com&#x2F;gitlab-org&#x2F;5-minute-production-app</a><p>This was not a poor accident by a single employee. It&#x27;s noble that the author tries to take all the blame on himself, but honestly, I feel like that is a moment where a leader has to step in and accept their mistake and not let a small trooper eat all the bullets.
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nonameiguess大约 4 年前
What is the audience you&#x27;re trying to target here? My project is already doing what you&#x27;re attempting to demo here deploying a RKE2 cluster in AWS GovCloud and SC2S using terraform and installing applications into it using flux, all happening in Gitlab, but we are very much not doing this as a replacement for Heroku. Heroku doesn&#x27;t exist and isn&#x27;t even a possibility where we deploy. I don&#x27;t imagine the one-man team trying to share a passion project with friends on the Internet really has the same concerns and cares about something like this.<p>For what it&#x27;s worth, I kind of hate that we&#x27;re using Gitlab for this, but as far as fully-integrated DevSecOps solutions that include VCS, binary artifact repositories, and pipeline orchestration all in one, there&#x27;s Gitlab and there&#x27;s Azure DevOps and that&#x27;s it. No one else offers this, so here we are. My complain is more that, as much as I also hate Jenkins because the no database everything is configured via text files scales terrible, especially over NFS, and security is non-existent, but going from Groovy DSL to embedded bash scripts in a heredoc that is part of a yaml list object is a significant downgrade in pipeline developer experience and quality control as a vehicle for pipeline as code.<p>I really, really wish you guys hadn&#x27;t gone with yaml-defined tasks as a pipeline scripting language. As bad as Jenkins is for every other reason, they really got the pipeline DSL correct.
candiddevmike大约 4 年前
This was very cringey. A super contrived demo and bashing Heroku through a Twitter reference. Reads like someone is drunk&#x2F;high and wanted to shitpost about a competitor. I would be appalled by this if I were GitLab&#x27;s PR department!
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geerlingguy大约 4 年前
&gt; Ended up in a Heroku blackbox for your stateful web app? GitLab introduces a better Heroku integrated into your DevSecOps workflow: The 5 minute production app.<p>Are we sure this wasn&#x27;t written by some sort of new AI bot GitLab is employing? So many keywords stuffed in those opening lines.<p>The comparison in the article is incredibly naive, IMO; they are not being a better Heroku, this is just demonstrating something you can do if you already have good knowledge of three complex tools: AWS, Terraform, and GitLab Pipelines.
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duxup大约 4 年前
I like Heroku. I use it.<p>I suppose maybe I&#x27;m a possible customer for these guys, but I just don&#x27;t care about their nitpicks or glib &#x2F; empty twitter quotes.<p>Like I have a login for Heroku... it wasn&#x27;t hard to make but apparently it was for them, that kinda makes me wonder about them.<p>Meanwhile their example is the opposite of Heroku, super opaque:<p>&gt;The documentation says to create a new AWS IAM role with credentials for automation.<p>Oh just jump in the &quot;create a new AWS IAM role with credentials for automation&quot; canon and fly off to AWS land? I&#x27;ve worked with AWS plenty and man it&#x27;s not been fun. I&#x27;m sure someone who knows thinks that&#x27;s a trivial step, but I don&#x27;t do it often enough to be sure of what is going on &#x2F; be all that comfortable with it.<p>That kinda &quot;here&#x27;s a link to some documentation for a vague step&quot; (that they don&#x27;t time....) is why I use Heroku...
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jlengrand大约 4 年前
Completely out of topic, but I think there is almost a perfect sync (with about a year of buffer) between the moment we lost the famous &quot;gitlab CEO here&quot; comments on HN and the moment where comments on HN starting shifting towards the negative side.<p>Long gone are the &#x27;gitlab is so amazing&#x27; comments, and the top comments are usually much more critical (clickbait, stability, . . .).<p>Not taking sides, just an observation that I make to myself pretty much every time I see Gitlab over here.<p>For reference : <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.google.com&#x2F;search?hl=en&amp;q=%2Dsite%3Amedium.com%20gitlab%20ceo%20here" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.google.com&#x2F;search?hl=en&amp;q=%2Dsite%3Amedium.com%2...</a>
dustinmoris大约 4 年前
Has GitLab already finished building a better GitHub before they waste time in a better Heroku when in fact nobody else thinks that we need a better Heroku?<p>Last time I checked GitLab was still significantly slower than GitHub.
colonwqbang大约 4 年前
What a poor article.<p>&gt; Especially Heroku as a deployment platform is a new area for me.<p>Maybe you should get some more experience with the product before writing your critique? Or write about something you know more about.<p>&gt; Getting there and installing the pre-requisites on the CLI took longer than expected.<p>No mention of how long, but when you use your own tool instead you time it down to the second...<p>&gt; Lots of CLI commands involved, and it did not run in a CI&#x2F;CD pipeline with additional tests before deploying it.<p>You published your code on github, so we can all see that you didn&#x27;t actually write any tests. Heroku does actually have a CI offering, but let&#x27;s just ignore that I guess?
brightball大约 4 年前
The first blog post I ever wrote that made the front page of Hacker News was called &quot;Docker is the Heroku Killer&quot;.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=8371249" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=8371249</a><p>Let me be real clear here...only Heroku will ever beat Heroku.<p>Docker has enabled a lot of other great options that are all modeled after the experience that Heroku has created...but ultimately people keep looking to Heroku because they are the gold standard.<p>Better is a series of tradeoffs. Heroku has been refining the tradeoffs to using their platform for a decade. You may create tradeoffs that work better for a use case that you want to enable, but ultimately you&#x27;re going to have to convince people that your set of tradeoffs has made things &quot;better&quot;.
AYBABTME大约 4 年前
This was a confusing read. I guess GitLab has a hosting service, or does it? Or was this a demo of terraform?
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judge2020大约 4 年前
&gt; The Git URL unfortunately does not provide access.<p>Sorry to say but not having a git web UI doesn&#x27;t mean you can&#x27;t access it. The very next command you push to it via `git push heroku main`, meaning you have full access to it, including the ability to force push to it.
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samblr大约 4 年前
Hey Gitlab,<p>This is as worse as it can get. This is tabloid stuff. Have lost respect for you.<p>Name calling Heroku which is known for its UX and ease of use. And then offering nothing but some made up nonsense and buzzwords. What happened to your good standards ?<p>Why can&#x27;t you be serious and build a better Heroku instead ? for real
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f6v大约 4 年前
&gt; You cannot debug Heroku by reading the source code.<p>I get the sentiment, but that&#x27;s absolutely the last thing you want to do when going for the &quot;5 minute production app&quot;.
mkhalil大约 4 年前
I can push an HTML file to prod in 4 minutes with my shiny tech. Heroku took 5. Therefore, my new shiny thing is better.<p>&gt; Apparently Heroku is not Open Source.<p>...Neither is AWS. And?<p>Gitlab is better than this.
joshghent大约 4 年前
This reads like the infamous &quot;use ftp&quot; comment about Dropbox, but in reverse. It totally misses the point of why people use Heroku. A) It&#x27;s free B) You don&#x27;t need to know how to code.<p>Same thing applies to Netlify. This post seems quite desperate.
oweiler大约 4 年前
I wish they would focus on other things. Things like GitLab CI&#x27;s cache are unusable with most workloads, we even had builds which were faster without the cache than with it.
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gwbas1c大约 4 年前
I find Heroku rather easy. About a year ago I wrote a vanilla blog engine in NodeJS. It only required a small amount of debugging to get up and running on Heroku.<p>(Although I don&#x27;t know if I ended up modifying my code to adhere to Heroku quirks, or if the changes I needed for Heroku are normal.)<p>One weird thing happened a few days ago. I noticed that my blog was offline, and I ended up needing to modify my Postgres connection code to explicitly enable encrypted connections. This struck me as very strange. I mostly work with Microsoft SQL, and those kinds of things are set via the connection string. Shouldn&#x27;t Heroku have just updated my database connection string without breaking my site? Admittedly, I have a lot less experience with Postgres than Microsoft SQL.
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giorgioz大约 4 年前
There is already a better Heroku and it&#x27;s Vercel (previously Zeit) <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;vercel.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;vercel.com&#x2F;</a> I believe Vercel is the spiritual successor of Heroku. I guess Heroku got bought by Salesforce and the founders&#x2F;visionaries left. Heroku should have moved to bill per seconds&#x2F;milliseconds based on AWS Lambda functions like Vercel did later.
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fragile_frogs大约 4 年前
the fuck did I just read? A bunch of buzz words smashed together &quot;hyper clouds&quot;, &quot;DevSecOps&quot;.<p>Then starts to show off how easy it is to use heroku, while complaining about how complex it is???<p>And at the end there are some vague screenshots showing a supposedly easier method of deploying things than using heroku, but first you have to learn GitLab CI&#x2F;CD, Terraform, AWS, and probably a bunch of other things?
edem大约 4 年前
First you should build a better GitHub. After that I <i>might</i> take a look at this.
phreack大约 4 年前
I suggest we don&#x27;t need a &#x27;better&#x27; Heroku, but rather a &#x27;cheaper&#x27; Heroku, with the exact same UX as Heroku. That would be a worthy goal to aim towards.
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dceddia大约 4 年前
I think the title is a bit confusing. &quot;We are building a better Heroku&quot; implies some sort of announcement that Gitlab is adding a new service to their offerings, and that&#x27;s what I expected when I clicked. This is more like a tutorial for how to make a deploy pipeline using Gitlab.
vasilakisfil大约 4 年前
That&#x27;s a big statement. I am afraid it&#x27;s not easy to replicate Heroku, let alone build something better. Quite the opposite I would say.
grumple大约 4 年前
&gt; Note that we never left the browser, there is no CLI involved.<p>This is not a positive thing, generally. Web-based deployments configurations are difficult to replicate and understand.<p>&gt; The documentation says to create a new AWS IAM role with credentials for automation.<p>From experience, this step can take a large amount of time if you don&#x27;t want to just say &quot;grant all&quot;. But create a new account for this project and it&#x27;s fine.<p>But overall this seems pretty cool if you want a quick start with a bunch of setup to get you started with a cloud app. Seems more customizable &#x2F; controllable than Heroku.
dmcbrayer大约 4 年前
Read the article. Came here for the comment thread. Was not disappointed.
zJayv大约 4 年前
They updated the post with this disclaimer:<p>&gt; Update: This post does not live up to its original title We are building a better Heroku...It should have emphasized the building part, we&#x27;re just starting. The current 5 minute production app doesn&#x27;t hold a candle to Heroku at the moment. It should have made it clear the goals is to improve the speed with which you can configure a production app, not a development app. Development apps on Heroku are already close to perfect.
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throwaway823882大约 4 年前
Since the post has diverged quite a bit from the original and most of the comments are about the original, here is the original: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20210322133353&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;about.gitlab.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;2021&#x2F;03&#x2F;22&#x2F;we-are-building-a-better-heroku&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20210322133353&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;about.git...</a>
subleq大约 4 年前
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;fly.io&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;fly.io&#x2F;</a> is the actual better Heroku.
throwaway823882大约 4 年前
If nothing else, this whole thread shows that actually running a product in production is much more difficult than a lot of people would like to believe, and paying for good managed hosting is worth it. Just because we want it to be cheap or easy doesn&#x27;t mean it will be.<p>Aside: has anyone here ever tried to build an actual wheel? Like a wheel for a car, or a wheelbarrow, or a wagon? One that has to take hundreds &#x2F; thousands of pounds, works in multiple environments, lasts years, requires little maintenance? I think the phrase &quot;reinventing the wheel&quot; understates the difficulty it takes to actually re-create a wheel even if you already know how it works. Not only is it wasted effort if a good wheel already exists, it&#x27;s also much harder than you think.
MattyMc大约 4 年前
This article is a bad look for GitLab.
gabereiser大约 4 年前
These the same people who Jonny drop tables themselves? <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;gitlabstatus&#x2F;status&#x2F;826591961444384768" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;gitlabstatus&#x2F;status&#x2F;826591961444384768</a>
tuananh大约 4 年前
using heroku, we don&#x27;t have to worry about infrastructure (much). having terraform in the pipeline kind of defeats that.
aaossa大约 4 年前
Why is this not in the front page still? I&#x27;m not sure about how the ranking algorithm works but it seems that this has more points and is more recent that some of the post in the front page.
config_yml大约 4 年前
Idk, this whole article felt contrived, but it&#x27;s great that Gitlab aspires to be better than Heroku. We need that, since I feel Heroku has stagnated a bit, and it&#x27;s cool someone is picking this up.<p>Heroku first and foremost gives me peace of mind about my production up. Someone handles that my app is running, someone cares that my backups are in place and working, etc.<p>And adding additional components and integrations is super easy to do, I don&#x27;t need to know much about the underlying technology and how to run it.
j4yav大约 4 年前
The title edit makes this topic pretty confusing.
toyg大约 4 年前
A better Heroku to me would be something like Dokku but for OpenBSD (or generally unix-agnostic). An universal PaaS, if you will.<p>Also something that makes it easier to handle the dev&#x2F;prod lifecycle. I&#x27;m sure it&#x27;s all very easy once you have all your devops stuff down, but the setup is still somewhat convoluted and drowning in too much YAML.
jessi80大约 4 年前
AgileStacks app templates use a similar approach to provide full stack DevOps automation for Kubernetes based apps. Just push your code and deploy: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;agilestacks&#x2F;stack-apps&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;agilestacks&#x2F;stack-apps&#x2F;</a>
fahimf大约 4 年前
This does not seem better.
kaiomagalhaes大约 4 年前
Is there a reason to not just use Gitlab + Convox + AWS to achieve this? Convox already is an alternative to Heroku that you can run anywhere
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the-dude大约 4 年前
Peak VC
revskill大约 4 年前
Nothing stop you to run test before run install when push to heroku :) CI&#x2F;CD right from heroku.
octernion大约 4 年前
i use heroku because someone else maintains infrastructure for me. i haven&#x27;t had to touch apps for years (4+ years) except for security patches or other minor updates and everything just keeps trucking. we have a long way to go to build those systems.
barrenko大约 4 年前
Yea, they&#x27;re imploding and dying. Probably need to fire a product manager or two.
Exuma大约 4 年前
&quot;Building better Heroku&quot;<p>... mmmkay
tnolet大约 4 年前
&gt; &quot;A typical web app requires a database, storage or caching backend, which can get complicated to run with Heroku.&quot;<p>Ah no. That is exactly where Heroku is dead easy. The creating, maintaining, updating and general day-to-day management of these &quot;addons&quot; require almost no input from the user. DB failover and mgmt is almost magic.<p>I wished GitLab would stay away from this needless, click bait type articles. It&#x27;s not even well researched, almost if they never really ran a serious app on Heroku.<p>Sure Heroku has quirks (no http2) but I bet a lot less quirks than a homegrown GitLab CI + Terraform solution.
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yayr大约 4 年前
while the original title created some resentment, I like the idea of the &quot;5 minute production app&quot;. Especially, since it is built on an open platform like gitlab. What I would wish, is to not only take hyperscalers into account. I would like this feature to be available on a basic VPS too.
WrtCdEvrydy大约 4 年前
This is pointless as it already exists (Caprover)
evoxmusic大约 4 年前
qovery.com :)
funnygitlab大约 4 年前
So this looks like signs that after getting a boat load of money from their VCs, promising to be a &quot;better github&quot;, the VCs have realized that they have been played. So it looks like the gitlab team has been asked to pursue other avenues to widen their horizons and get some returns for the VC investments. So they go from &quot;we will be better github&quot; to &quot;we will be better heroku&quot;.<p>How will they do that? &quot;Productized apps for hyperscale cloud&quot;. What does that mean? It&#x27;s a bunch of buzz words our marketing and sales team invented.
dnsmichi大约 4 年前
Author here.<p>This post doesn&#x27;t live up to its title, I&#x27;m sorry about that.<p>The title should have been &#x27;We are building a better Heroku FOR PRODUCTION APPS&#x27; (we&#x27;ll add the &#x27;for production apps&#x27; to the title)<p>It should have emphasized the _building_ part, we&#x27;re just starting. The current 5 minute production app doesn&#x27;t hold a candle to Heroku at the moment.<p>It should have made it clear the goals is to improve the speed with which you can configure a production app, not a development app. Development apps on Heroku are already close to perfect. The examples in this post are contrived since it talks about a development app, as rightly called out by Heroku people <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;johnbeynon&#x2F;status&#x2F;1374306499426652161" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;johnbeynon&#x2F;status&#x2F;1374306499426652161</a><p>It should have gone into why hyper clouds might be preferable <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gitlab.com&#x2F;gitlab-org&#x2F;5-minute-production-app&#x2F;deploy-template#hypercloud" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gitlab.com&#x2F;gitlab-org&#x2F;5-minute-production-app&#x2F;deploy...</a><p>It should have talked about state, we made a small improvement in <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gitlab.com&#x2F;gitlab-com&#x2F;www-gitlab-com&#x2F;-&#x2F;merge_requests&#x2F;78028&#x2F;diffs" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gitlab.com&#x2F;gitlab-com&#x2F;www-gitlab-com&#x2F;-&#x2F;merge_request...</a> but we should have done the planned work in <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gitlab.com&#x2F;gitlab-com&#x2F;www-gitlab-com&#x2F;-&#x2F;issues&#x2F;11137" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gitlab.com&#x2F;gitlab-com&#x2F;www-gitlab-com&#x2F;-&#x2F;issues&#x2F;11137</a> and made one post out of it.
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