Ask HN: Downvoting

I would be interested in knowing how much of your description is deduction on your part, and how much is received fact from definitive sources. I would be interested in knowing how and why your comment was deemed "bad."<p>I don't know of any definitive cases where someone made a comment that was appropriate, got vast numbers of down-votes, and then got banned because of it. I know of many people who have complained about being banned, only to discover that it wasn't the case.<p>I do know of many people who present dissenting views, but present them carefully and constructively, and who do not attract down-votes because of their comments. They work hard to get people to think first, and not to react with a jerk of the knee (so to speak). It is possible. I've seen it. It's not easy, and I suspect not everyone can do it.<p>In short, it's unclear that your beliefs about the situation are accurate - there are many ways to get these things wrong. I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just saying that your view about down-votes may not be accurate.<p>And no, I don't think down-votes should be removed, although I frequently don't understand how they are being used.

People don't downvote dissenting views. They downvote comments that lack value to the discussion.

People on HN are way too keen to downvoting. Down votes should be used to filter out bad/thoughtless comments, not viewpoints that don't necessarily agree with yours. I've seen a lot of valuable input grayed out on this site.

I'd like to see it disappear, personally. The really bad comments tend to sink to the bottom of the page anyway and increasingly downvoting is being used capriciously and vindictively to ding opinions people just don't happen to agree with.

Downvoting is used often for dissenting views nowadays. Personally, I don't care that much if my comments are downvoted. This is just another forum on the internet. I'd rather voice my opinion and get downvoted than not voice my opinion at all.<p>That being said, I'd like to see the downvoting be removed.<p>Go ahead and downvote my comment.

<i>I ask because following that incident I will no longer be presenting dissenting views here, irrespective of perceived value.</i><p>Having a positive points value is more important to you than interesting debate? Boy do you have your priorities backwards. Don't let a downvote stop you from posting your ideas, that's ridiculous.

How about a limited amount of down-votes allocated to each member to dish out? Possibly tiered based on karma level? Perhaps a member that down-votes a comment loses karma if the comment is then up-voted by other members (ie deemed an unfair down-vote by others)?

Perhaps it's also about _how_ you present a view. Using words such as "perhaps" and "consider" allow people to more easily receive the thought that you are attempting to convey.

<i>I ask because following that incident I will no longer be presenting dissenting views here, irrespective of perceived value.</i><p>Presenting a dissenting opinion is an art form. It takes practice. I do a lot of it. I never really fit in anywhere I go. An awful lot of my views do not fit into whatever the 'typical' assumptions are on a topic and this means that no matter what I say, both sides often wind up kicking the crap out of me.<p>Some tips, should you decide you would like to try again:<p>Don't be argumentative about it. Present your views as a standing-on-your-own-two-feet position, not a shooting-down-the-opposition thing.<p>Show some respect -- agree to disagree, make no attempt to "win people over", much less "win".<p>Stick to the issues. When you dissent, inevitably there will be enormous social pressure swirling around your lack of going along to get along. Anyone who speaks to you will likely try to put all kinds of crap on you about what they think you are saying. Politely clarify, as many times as it takes.<p>Judge the timing and context carefully. There is a time and place to offer an alternate point of view. There are other times and places where it's so not worth it.<p>Word your dissent very carefully. If your goal is to get people to really think and not just punch buttons, like it or not, the burden is on the minority voice to make an effort to communicate effectively. If you are going along with the majority opinion, you can express yourself sloppily and people won't care. But when stating a minority opinion, you must be extra careful to work at communicating effectively and intentionally avoid punching people's buttons so as to have some hope of actually being heard.

Am I missing something? Isn't one way to fix downvoting to make them subtractive for both parties?

How do you even downvote, do you need a certain level of karma?

In the grand scheme of things, why on Earth do you care if an account was down-voted?<p>Personally, I see this as a bad sign that people in general are very immature and do not have an adult grasp on reality. People who care about getting 'down-voted' frighten me.<p>Comment trolled perhaps? It's hard to say. ColinWright: are you really this bored with life?<p>I like to contribute, but really.. I don't care what people thing of my comments, they are just comments on a random website.