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Bitcoin is a ‘boon for surveillance’, says former CIA director

372 点作者 ryan_j_naughton大约 4 年前

28 条评论

dcolkitt大约 4 年前
As far as I can tell, hundreds of millions in drugs and contraband are regularly transacted using Bitcoin. Billions in global capital controls and taxes are evaded every day with Bitcoin. The fraction of black market participants who are revealed on the basis of &quot;chain analysis&quot; is still a rounding error.<p>It all depends what your threat model is. Bitcoin can be traced by sophisticated nation state actors at the cost of tens of millions per intercepted target. If I was Osama bin Laden or El Chapo or a guy who personally pissed off Putin, I probably wouldn&#x27;t rely on it. But if I was a local drug kingpin in Baltimore, or a corrupt mid-level CCP official, or a Cypriot corporate money launderer, then Bitcoin deanonymization is probably a small risk in the scheme of things. Certainly orders of magnitude less risk than using the traditional banking system.
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anonytrary大约 4 年前
That&#x27;s why Zcash, Dash, Monero, et al. are probably going to pop off. That, or become completely illegal, we&#x27;ll see... not even sure if that can even be enforced beyond pushing centralized exchanges to delist the coins. Coinbase delisted Ripple a few months ago, and Ripple just 5x&#x27;d in the past month, so I&#x27;m not sure how effective one-off delisting actually is.
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hellow0rldz大约 4 年前
It doesn&#x27;t matter. Making a wire payment or paying with a card is also surveilled and archived until the end of time.<p>BitCoin&#x27;s major purpose is as a hedge to massive fiat printing.
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legerdemain大约 4 年前
A number of voices from government and surveillance circles, like Thiel et al, have come forward lately to caution about &quot;big problems&quot; with Bitcoin. I have to conclude that Bitcoin is actually winning, and these people are just spreading FUD in an effort to crush something they can&#x27;t control.
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rmtech大约 4 年前
If you are using Bitcoin for privacy you are an idiot.<p>Dedicated privacy coins like ZCash have existed for years, and even more modern systems like Aztec are on the rise.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;zk.money&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;zk.money&#x2F;</a><p>Eventually Aztec will allow not just private payments but running arbitrary code on-chain in private.<p>The mainstream is completely clueless.
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itsdsmurrell大约 4 年前
Try Bitcoin Cash, they have <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cashfusion.org" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cashfusion.org</a>... it&#x27;s like a mixer you can switch on in your wallet and because the fees are what they are meant to be (according to Satoshi - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;satoshi.nakamotoinstitute.org&#x2F;emails&#x2F;cryptography&#x2F;2&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;satoshi.nakamotoinstitute.org&#x2F;emails&#x2F;cryptography&#x2F;2&#x2F;</a>), the mixing cost only a few pennies.
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ccortes大约 4 年前
I think people underestimate how easy it is to launder money with more traditional methods and overestimated how easy it is with crypto.
busymom0大约 4 年前
Slightly off topic but SEC is going after small competition to YouTube LBRY and Odysee platform by claiming their LBRY Credits are &quot;securities&quot; and thus need to be regulated. If this happens to LBRY, then other cryptocurrencies will be next.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;helplbrysavecrypto.com&#x2F;faq" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;helplbrysavecrypto.com&#x2F;faq</a><p>Video summaries:<p>&gt; SEC vs. LBRY Could be DEVASTATING! Viva &amp; Barnes HIGHLIGHT:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;kB_TrpRikq8" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;kB_TrpRikq8</a><p>&gt; SEC vs. LBRY Crypto Lawsuit<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=1JyIPFuUbWg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=1JyIPFuUbWg</a>
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thesuitonym大约 4 年前
I always wondered about this, and figured I was missing something. If every transaction is recorded for eternity, then tracking funds is just a matter of linking wallets to individuals, which while that may be difficult, it&#x27;s not impossible. Certainly not with the kind of funds that three letter agencies command.<p>I always assumed the closest you could get to anonymity with any blockchain based coin is to use a burner wallet, and convert it cash as soon as the transaction is complete--but that&#x27;s just using cash with extra steps.
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antpls大约 4 年前
How I understand it, please correct me if I&#x27;m wrong :<p>All transactions are visible, sure, but Bitcoin also enables mass dilution and mass money washing.<p>Let&#x27;s say there is a bitcoin address A on which you have identified that 50% of the Bitcoins are legit, and 50% came from a suspicious flagged address B.<p>Now what? Do you also flag A as &quot;suspicious&quot;. What if A also made thausands other payments, do you flag all the recipients as suspicious?<p>Let&#x27;s say you are drastic and your external system only allows payments from the addresses with a 100% verifiable and clean history. Now all I have to do as an attacker is to make a payment to your address from a flagged address I own, and all your bitcoins are also now flagged for life.<p>You quickly end up flagging the whole address base as suspicious, because there is no way to :<p><pre><code> - block deposit - differentiate Bitcoin X from Bitcoin Z </code></pre> I guess something like smart contracts could change the rules, but that would be a completely new network and token<p>Or am I missing something ?
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jude-大约 4 年前
This is why I don&#x27;t see the USA banning Bitcoin anytime soon. Using it makes it all too easy to catch nefarious activity.
matheusmoreira大约 4 年前
Ray Dillinger was there in bitcoin&#x27;s early days. He recently wrote this:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.metzdowd.com&#x2F;pipermail&#x2F;cryptography&#x2F;2020-December&#x2F;036510.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.metzdowd.com&#x2F;pipermail&#x2F;cryptography&#x2F;2020-Decembe...</a><p>&gt; The pseudonymity of coins being owned by the bearer of some cryptographic key is a failure;<p>&gt; People have been eavesdropping and aggressively analyzing the block chain from day 1.<p>&gt; And the block chain will always be there, it will always be public, and it will always be subject to further analysis.<p>&gt; And we are learning that analysis of that record is sufficient to destroy any pretense of anonymity or pseudonymity.
siruncledrew大约 4 年前
Bitcoin has become more successful as an investment or store-of-value than as an &quot;anonymous&quot; payment option. Even within the cryptos, there are already better options than Bitcoin if someone is worried about transaction monitoring.
zelly大约 4 年前
Headline is misleading. The whitepaper by the CIA director emphasizes that the US should <i>not</i> outlaw crypto, because China would then capture all the value that the US would miss out on.
jokoon大约 4 年前
You don&#x27;t even have to interact with a bank to clean money with bitcoin:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.imgur.com&#x2F;Qd7h2yu.png" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.imgur.com&#x2F;Qd7h2yu.png</a>
indigoblue300大约 4 年前
MWEB on Litecoin solves this by adding Financial Confidentiality (Fungibility) as an extension block.<p>The code is complete and is open for review.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;litecoin-foundation.org&#x2F;mweb-code-complete&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;litecoin-foundation.org&#x2F;mweb-code-complete&#x2F;</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;litecoin-foundation.org&#x2F;the-battle-for-sound-money&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;litecoin-foundation.org&#x2F;the-battle-for-sound-money&#x2F;</a>
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cwkoss大约 4 年前
Also, remember the blockchain is effectively permanent.<p>Even if many of these activities cannot be identified today, it seems likely that many peoples transactions will be unmasked at some point in time.<p>I would not recommend using bitcoin for illegal or embarassing activity.
manishsharan大约 4 年前
Doesn&#x27;t anyone else here think that this is a damm good thing. Getting rid of unsavoury characters and thier businesses would be good for Bitcoin in the long run and attract more asset managers to include this in their portfolio.
wpdev_63大约 4 年前
Does anyone know what&#x27;s going on with the kovri project that&#x27;s suppose implement I2p tunneling for monero? It seems like the project stalled and the developer dropped off the face of the earth.
chews大约 4 年前
or it&#x27;s probably why the NSA published a paper on digital cash, cause bailing out banks and reinsurance companies is really fun and a positive for future generations.
nikolay大约 4 年前
Well, of course - it was either started at NSA or by Paul Le Roux, so, neither is a good reason to invest money or energy in this stinky steamy pile.
gandalfian大约 4 年前
I wonder if we will get blacklisted individual bitcoins that no regulated firm will be allowed to accept.
da_big_ghey大约 4 年前
And yes mayebe, but not in this case for every crypto. We all should ought to be using Monero, escape digital financail system that government can be tracking every transaction. There ought not to be any way for tracking of transaction for to be happening.
grae_QED大约 4 年前
Wait what? Who has ever been caught from analysing the blockchain? Everyone uses local crypto exchanges to cashout&#x2F;cashin and burner wallets. It&#x27;s literally paying&#x2F;receiving cash but with extra steps.
idownvoted大约 4 年前
Gee, who would have thunk?!<p>A complete transaction history for users which were attracted by alleged anonymity?!<p>The ability to extort even if you just traded with someone who’ve traded with someone shady?<p>The possibility to thread ceasing of wealth without one judge approval needed?<p>Ability to manipulate the price by extorting whales?<p>The ability to extort miners because all of them store and share child pornography via the blockchain?<p>What could possibly go wrong...
oceanghost大约 4 年前
If the CIA wants you to believe something... you&#x27;d be much better off not doing that. Three letter agencies always support existing power structures.
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albertTJames大约 4 年前
This is misleading. Crypto is used by most ransomwares nowadays and terrorist groups have embraced crypto as a valid source of financing.<p>That crypto is still a low percentage of overall illicit transactions makes sense, but give it 10 more years and that wont be the case anymore.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;t.co&#x2F;TFB02c7FEM" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;t.co&#x2F;TFB02c7FEM</a>
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Lordarminius大约 4 年前
I am constantly amazed by the Luddite comments on hacker News everytime crypto comes up.<p>Nobody with a modicum of opsec knowledge would even use Bitcoin for secure, secret transactions. There are better alternatives<p>Get over your conservatism and accept the fact that crypto is the future.