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Things I wish someone told me about getting a promotion

128 点作者 _ttg大约 4 年前

28 条评论

gofreddygo大约 4 年前
Another post on promotion hacking ?<p>Top comment [1] from another good HN discussion [2] about this from late last year. Worth repeating<p><pre><code> Here&#x27;s some of my learnings about getting promoted for those that really want to play that game: - Only the perception of your work matters - Attend the social events and get in good with the bosses - The countability of your major achievements is important. Make the list long, too long to hold in the mind - At the same time the gravitas of your best achievement is also important since that will be the soundbite that is shared about you behind your back - Get allies who can proselytize about you behind your back - Be the best. The difference between one and two is bigger than that between two and three, as far as promotions go - Take credit for your work (use pronouns I and Me when talking about your work, not We) and do not allow others to take credit for your work - If it&#x27;s a teamwork situation with other people on your level, don&#x27;t do most of the work, because the credit will end up being split 50&#x2F;50 in the eyes of the bosses even if you did most of it - Make a very good first impression - Shape the narrative around the role you played in the success of the mission&#x2F;team&#x2F;company - Get the bosses to make a soft public commitment regarding your competence - Even if you have a really good boss, all of the above is still important, because they are fallible humans and aren&#x27;t omniscient - Actually do good work, it&#x27;ll make the above easier </code></pre> 1: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=24622111" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=24622111</a><p>2: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=24618707" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=24618707</a>
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txsoftwaredev大约 4 年前
&quot;I&#x27;ve had (cis, white, male) friends tell me that they were basically promoted on potential and didn&#x27;t have to actively go out of their way for several months to prove their performance. It&#x27;d be nice if that happened to the rest of us, but don&#x27;t bet on it.&quot;<p>Where is all this white privilege? I seem to have missed the boat (I have the correct pigmentation apparently). I had to provide value in order to be promoted &#x2F; get raises and actually speak up and ask for it.
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willcipriano大约 4 年前
The visibility point is worth noting. I&#x27;ve noticed that in SE jobs, luck of the draw plays a lot into it. If you make modest progress on a project people are excited about, management will shout your name from the rooftops. On the other hand, toil nights and weekends on a loss leader and people will ask &quot;do we really need Bob?&quot;<p>If you get put on a project like that, it&#x27;s probably best career wise to find a new role.
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tkiolp4大约 4 年前
Sorry but: fuck this. I also work as a software engineer, and I focus on one thing only: professionalism. Professionalism is about:<p>1. knowing my stuff. I got my degree, I read, I experiment with new tech and I never stop learning.<p>2. responsibility. Am I working on Issue 345? You bet I’ll do my best finishing it on time or I’ll inform you if that’s not possible way beforehand.<p>3. don’t harm others with the excuse of points 1 or 2.<p>I don’t care about visibility or playing politics. I don’t care about levels. The idea of “performing” at a certain level is ridiculous. I do care about getting compensated for the stuff I do, but based only in points 1 and 2 above. It has worked for me in many cases, although sometimes I’ve had to quit because companies were expecting me to play the game.
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frankfrankfrank大约 4 年前
One thing I was expecting to see was that promoting yourself by moving, i.e., selling yourself to other companies is not only the best method for price discovery for yourself, but also that it will not come with excess responsibilities, i.e., promotions without&#x2F;inadequate pay and mostly more responsibilities&#x2F;work.<p>It is an issue and something I have been thinking about, because the corporate machine thinks it is saving itself money by screwing its employees, but there are many other way in which in reality is just undermines value and cuts growth and future earnings potential when your &quot;human resources&quot; decide to take their resources and institutional knowledge to a different company after years of sub optimal deployment due to the corporate culture.<p>For some corporations the burn and churn model may work; some big finance, insurance, tech, and consulting firms come to mind, but I don&#x27;t think it can work without having generated a certain (al)lure.
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rjmill大约 4 年前
Great points overall. One thing I&#x27;d add if you&#x27;re looking to get promoted in an individual contributor role:<p>Ask your manager what it would take to get a promotion. It&#x27;s different at different companies.<p>Furthermore, asking lets your manager know that you&#x27;re trying to push yourself to the next level. If you&#x27;re already operating at the next level, it&#x27;ll help the manager notice sooner. If you&#x27;ve still got some ways to go, your manager may be able to help you find opportunities for growth.<p>The worst cases would be where your manager can&#x27;t help promote you (no matter how much you deserve it) or your manager actively thwarts your advancement. In the former case, asking early can help ease feelings when you get your promotion at another job. In the latter case, your manager has probably been thwarting you all along. But now you know. Don&#x27;t waste your time trying to impress someone who will never acknowledge your efforts.<p>If you want to advance, talk to your manager. They can help. If they can&#x27;t&#x2F;won&#x27;t, find an environment that&#x27;s more supportive of your growth.
emrah大约 4 年前
Promotion does involve more than just technical chops so it is harder for those who just want to put their heads down, code and get things done without much funfair.<p>&gt; You have to be performing at the next level<p>Apparently this happens more often than not, but I don&#x27;t buy it. First of all, the next level should involve activities that your current level should not allow or leave enough time for you to do. So, no you can&#x27;t perform at the next level.<p>If you have been performing at the next level, and for a while, then the company has been taking advantage of you. You should have been paid at the next level too.<p>It&#x27;s very unfortunate but it does often seem easier to jump ship to get to the next level or skip a few.
sneak大约 4 年前
There&#x27;s little&#x2F;no penalty to jobhopping frequently in this field, so I wonder how much benefit there is to sticking it out (presumably underpaid) until you can catalyze a promotion&#x2F;raise.<p>I think the best way to optimize your interaction with the market as an FTE is to simply always be occasionally interviewing and scouting around. There are lots of biases and inertia and anchoring and stuff with orgs with which you have an existing relationship.
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milliams大约 4 年前
That mouse trail is so unbelievably obnoxious.
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_qwfv大约 4 年前
One thing I tell all my folks and mentees is to understand why they are pushing for promotion. Engineering promotions are different jobs. You&#x27;ll be taking on different responsibilities and expectations, and blindly chasing a level bump just because the number of bigger can lead to bad outcomes.<p>Whether it&#x27;s pay, prestige, interest in expanded scope, whatever... Make sure you know that motivates your drive for the promo.
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impoppy大约 4 年前
Don’t let this article get in your head if you want a promotion or a raise.<p>1 and 6 are total BS. If your company does not have KPI or whatever useless and evil things project managers invent, just go to your manager and tell them you want a raise the moment you feel like you’re doing good and deserve it. And if the company still won’t give you a raise then I doubt it values you enough.<p>My salary raised over 200% in half a year just because I underestimated my base tag and asked for a raise every time I felt like I was doing very good. Although that’s not only about my performance but soft skills as well as pointed out somewhere in the article.<p>My manager once said: &quot;Business does not care about you. How modesty can help you achieve things?”.
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caturopath大约 4 年前
&gt; You will never get a promotion or raise if there&#x27;s no formal performance review process and career ladder.<p>This has not been my experience. I&#x27;ve gotten promotions and raises at multiple companies without a formal ladder or meaningful performance review process. Sometimes to more-senior roles that were invented for me and played to my strengths.<p>In my limited experience, promotion&#x2F;leveling at small companies without much formal process has mapped way closer to people&#x27;s actual skill level and accomplishments than at large companies with formal process.<p>&gt; You can&#x27;t skip two steps ahead into whatever skills you wish you could learn.<p>I don&#x27;t get how this title summarizes the insight of this passage.
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akavel大约 4 年前
(Per HN guidelines:<p><i>&gt; If the title contains a gratuitous number or number + adjective, we&#x27;d appreciate it if you&#x27;d crop it. E.g. translate &quot;10 Ways To Do X&quot; to &quot;How To Do X,&quot; and &quot;14 Amazing Ys&quot; to &quot;Ys.&quot; Exception: when the number is meaningful, e.g. &quot;The 5 Platonic Solids.&quot;</i><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;newsguidelines.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;newsguidelines.html</a>)
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shubik22大约 4 年前
I generally agree with the advice in this article; I feel like a lot of the pushback here is people who don’t like the system this post is describing. That’s totally fair! I share many of those complaints. However, in my experience the post is correct as a descriptive matter.<p>The one point I’d take issue with is:<p>&gt; You have to be performing at the next level for several months.<p>This is definitely what you’ll be told (and was the party line at the FAANG company I recently left). I don’t think it makes a ton of sense though (so you perform at N+1 for a month, get promoted and then slip back to N?). And in my experience, it’s more often used as an excuse to avoid promoting people when they should be promoted and then avoid having to justify the outcome. (“Of course I agree with you that you’re performing at an L5 level! But you need to do that for just a little longer, wait until next cycle.”)<p>This is a somewhat cynical view, and doesn’t apply to every situation. However, I would advise any engineer who gets told this line (you’re doing great, just a few more months!) to not accept it as fact and push back against it every single time.
notaspecialist大约 4 年前
Yeahh...I&#x27;m gonna have to ask you to come in on the weekend.
w0mbat大约 4 年前
&gt; You will never get a promotion or raise &gt; if there&#x27;s no formal performance review &gt; process and career ladder.<p>Well that&#x27;s obviously not true. Chaotic rapidly growing startups with little process, promote people at a vastly higher rate than established big companies with a lot of process and less growth.
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hansor大约 4 年前
&gt;You will never get a promotion or raise if there&#x27;s no formal performance review process and career ladder.<p>That is total BS. I had promotion multiple times just because business owner liked me and valued my work.<p>&gt;You have to be performing at the next level for several months<p>Total BS too. Maybe in India.<p>&gt; VISIBILITY<p>This one is not BS! I have seen many many developers without any rise - just because they do not attend any meetings, they look like bumps(no suits!), and those who do not talk much with their own boss or boss above...<p>When I manage to do something BIG - i make sure that my boss, his boss, and boss above KNOWS that we tried hard and delivered. It&#x27;s not a shame to brag about real accomplishments :)<p>In that way I received 32% pay-rise in past 2 years.
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EricE大约 4 年前
Two followed by Six on his list got me every promotion&#x2F;increase. Only twice within the same org was I able to get a promotion&#x2F;increase my salary. While it&#x27;s possible, it&#x27;s often way easier to get an increase by moving to a different organization or company. Which can be annoying - or an opportunity for growth you hadn&#x27;t considered.
adaml_623大约 4 年前
Good solid actionable items. Number 5 is something to bear in mind, sometimes you need to look externally.
sombremesa大约 4 年前
Yuck.<p>The fact that junior devs are learning <i>this</i> as facts of life should be a point of shame for the industry. I thought similar things when I worked at Amazon, but by and large a life built around corporate bullshit is not for me.<p>There are other companies out there that are much more human and don’t force you to restructure your mindset around what it takes to climb the ladder rather than what makes a great software engineer.
intricatedetail大约 4 年前
Is this &quot;climb the ladder&quot; thing still relevant when companies move to just in time equivalent for workers? You get hired to do X tasks and then move on to another company.
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rgblambda大约 4 年前
&gt;I thought that the only way to get a promotion was to get a new title along with a new job.<p>Are companies finally catching on to this and starting to encourage upward progression?
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pietromenna大约 4 年前
Great article, I specially liked that you pointed out 3 points: Visibility, Keep learning and being in the right place makes all the difference.
100011_100001大约 4 年前
I started working as a Jr Dev at 32. Looking at other Jr Devs that entered the company around the same time I have had the fastest rise. Visibility is huge, this is true for any job. However visibility is a double edged sword, because you can fail spectacularly as well.<p>Here is my perspective, take it as an opinion.<p>I personally dislike people that talk the talk, but don&#x27;t walk the walk. So if you want to wow your managers with lies and falsehoods this does not apply to you. (and you are part of the problem).<p>My approach is based on a few pillars. Work smart, be willing to fail, get uncomfortable, force yourself to be extroverted, always be learning, give something back.<p>Sometimes hard work is invisible. Anyone that had to spend countless hours on an end of life application fixing endless bugs with no one you can talk to is hard and thankless work. Work smart means fixing the right things, what has a big impact. You can do that anywhere, but doing it for a bleeding edge group or a problem solver group in your company makes the same amount of work appear better.<p>For agile teams, another part of working smart is choosing the right stories. Some stories are easy but invisible, others are harder but visible, choose the one that have a visible effect, usually they are higher stake, but it&#x27;s part of the process.<p>Be willing to fail, goes hand in hand with smart work. If you try to avoid mistakes too much, you will get stuck trying to be perfect which means your output will drop. Also if you are working in high impact teams occasionally things will go really wrong. It might not even be your fault. That&#x27;s fine.<p>A lot of people mess failure up. They fail and try to cover it up. This might work for management, but other devs know. Guess what, they will remember that, not out of menace, but it will become part of their opinion of you. They&#x27;ll know that if things go south you will lie about it, or throw someone else under the bus. In my humble opinion the best way to deal with failure that&#x27;s your fault is be in the forefront of the fix. A simple &quot;I should have noticed this issue, but I did not. I am already working on a fix, and have talked to X team on mitigation strategy&quot; is all you need. Most sane organizations recognize that mistakes happen, I mean this is why QA exists to begin with. If your response to a defect is to blame the PM for not having clear direction, or the QA for not catching it...guess what, you just made a PM and QA not trust you.<p>Discomfort is part of doing new things. The familiar feels safe. If you made a blue widget, then it&#x27;s easier to make a red one, and if you make 10 widgets it&#x27;s a walk in the park. However making a widget today, a bicycle tomorrow, a house next month will feel uncomfortable, however you will learn a lot. A counter point to this is don&#x27;t be a generalist, try to master your tools a little bit. In other words don&#x27;t always go for the new tech all the time, you want to be acquiring skills not dabbling.<p>Force yourself to be extroverted. Most developers tend to be introverts, I love machines, I find them fascinating, and probably it&#x27;s a lot easier for me to deal with input&#x2F;outputs that follow patterns than the chaos of human reactions. However it&#x27;s really really hard to be visible if you are an introvert and talk to no one. There are some very talented devs that can be fully introverted and are recognized. You have to be really spectacular to be able to do that. It&#x27;s much easier to be extroverted. If you are actually an introvert you most likely have noticed that extroverts tend to get a lot of undeserved cred.<p>For me it&#x27;s a necessary skill. I am not suggesting you talk about the weather and have benign talk that no one cares about. I mean, say &quot;hello&quot;, if someone mentioned they where going hiking this weekend, and it&#x27;s Monday, ask them how it went. So perhaps it&#x27;s more about being friendly. There is another aspect though, that without it you miss out on a lot. That&#x27;s being willing to make presentations or sending emails to massive amounts of important people. You know, the introvert nightmare.<p>Think about it, if you write good code and no one knows you did it, how on earth are you going to be promoted &#x2F; respected &#x2F; mentor others...whatever your drivers are. It&#x27;s not really possible.<p>Always be learning should be an obvious concept. If you are following my advice and you are working on cutting edge projects, being willing to fail, getting uncomfortable and even being more extroverted...you are learning.<p>Finally, give something back. Don&#x27;t be the person that does things and never helps anyone else. Write that documentation. Mentor other devs, pair program with others that seem to be having a hard time. Ping the chat with a recent thing you discovered.<p>In the end, if your fellow devs like working with you, most likely your manager will sense it and that makes all the difference. Just make sure you are not full of crap and actually write some code.
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aynyc大约 4 年前
Hmm... is this how current startup or &quot;agile&quot; companies environment work now? #1-4 are utter non-sense. #5&#x2F;6 are generally true in every job if promotion is what you want, plenty of folks just don&#x27;t care about that. Sad part of me thinks that this will be the future workplace culture, but I want no part in.
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izgzhen大约 4 年前
I think we should not follow the mindset of doing X things to get promotion. The most important thing is to know the whys behind promotion, and combine that thinking with what you want out of life. Think top down, as if you are running this company, ask yourself how do you decide about promotions and why.
lazyant大约 4 年前
The most important thing to get promoted is to 1) have a boss that supports&#x2F;wants your promotion. For this you have to do some 2) decent, visible work outside your team, so that your boss can confidently go to peers and own manager to propose your promotion.
tristor大约 4 年前
My experience, as someone who&#x27;s had internal promotions multiple times in my career at different companies, is that the only point here that&#x27;s actually true is #6 about visibility, but that the author&#x27;s take on visibility is a bit too narrow. Getting promoted is mostly about three things as an engineer:<p>1. Execute with excellence.<p>2. Establish a positive reputation, preferably as a subject matter expert<p>3. Align yourself to the direction of your business unit or the company.<p>In pretty much that priority order, actually. Whether you have a formal review process, quarterly goals and KPIs, take on duties off the HR-approved job description of the next level up, et al, none of that matters.<p>Visibility is all about #2. Being the engineer that sits in the dark corner hacking away and nobody even knows you&#x27;re in the office (if you&#x27;ve ever had the lights turn off while you&#x27;re still at work because someone else thought they were the last one out of the office, this is probably you) is not going to get you promoted. I am an introvert, and I will tell you directly that you do not need to be gregarious, charming, and a social butterfly to get visibility, nor do you need to go into 1:1s with your boss and brag for 20 minutes every month.<p>Visibility is as simple as:<p>1. Say hello to people at work when you come into the office.<p>2. Remember (or write down) people&#x27;s names and what they do, understand the organizational chart of your company.<p>3. When someone asks you a question, answer honestly, including &quot;I don&#x27;t know.&quot; Use these questions as an opportunity to grow your knowledge.<p>4. If you find an area where there are a lot of questions and you consistently know the answers, lean in and be willing to answer those questions.<p>Doing this establishes a positive reputation (or at least a neutral one) and sets you up to be considered a subject matter expert on whatever niche you find yourself fielding questions about the most, which may not even be your specific job duties.<p>If you&#x27;re consistently executing your job duties at above baseline standards and your coworkers across teams and departments think positively of you and consider you an expert on some topic, you&#x27;ll find internal promotion comes relatively easily even if you don&#x27;t have any formal review or KPI process.<p>Finally, and this is a big one. You have to ask for the promotion. Do not expect anyone to just randomly swoop down and promote you. It does happen, sometimes, but generally you have to advocate for yourself. In really well structured companies it as easy as asking your boss and they take care of the rest, but the reality is most people don&#x27;t have great managers or exist in a well structured organization. So figure out who to talk to, and ask them.<p>I don&#x27;t touch as much on #3 at the top because even if you&#x27;re doing maintenance work on a legacy system nobody cares about, if you can become the hero to whatever department uses that system as their SME or be known positively as an SME on other things and are willing to answer questions outside your strict job duties about it, you can get promoted. It makes it vastly easier if you&#x27;re working on something where your day-to-day aligns with the company&#x27;s direction and vision, but it&#x27;s not a requirement.