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France is testing free public transport

213 点作者 astatine将近 4 年前

29 条评论

cycomanic将近 4 年前
The additional bit of information is that often the ticketing systems make up a non trivial fraction of the overall cost of running the transportation network. Often these systems are implemented by large international consortia who funnel money from the public. Take Melbourne for example implementation of their chip card system ran much over budget and was 1.5 billion AUD in the end [1].<p>That doesn&#x27;t mean making public transport free always makes sense, but it would eliminate some of the large rentseekers from the system.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Myki" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Myki</a>
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Raed667将近 4 年前
Some more context: In France, public transport fees are 50% subsidized by your employer.<p><pre><code> The employer&#x27;s contribution to public transport costs is compulsory. The employer (under private or public law) must pay 50% of the price of season tickets subscribed by his employees for the entire journey between their usual residence and their place of work accomplished by means of public transport services. even if several subscriptions are necessary for this trip (train + bus for example). Public bicycle rental services are also concerned. </code></pre> <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.urssaf.fr&#x2F;portail&#x2F;home&#x2F;employeur&#x2F;calculer-les-cotisations&#x2F;les-elements-a-prendre-en-compte&#x2F;les-frais-professionnels&#x2F;les-frais-de-transport&#x2F;trajet-domicilelieu-de-travail&#x2F;prise-en-charge-obligatoire-des.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.urssaf.fr&#x2F;portail&#x2F;home&#x2F;employeur&#x2F;calculer-les-co...</a><p>Also if you&#x27;re a student, low-income, elderly, it becomes extremely cheap to get a monthly&#x2F;yearly subscription.
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hyperman1将近 4 年前
Belgium implemented partial free public transport for the elder. It mostly works, but there were some perverse incentives.<p>Specifically, some elder people are so bored they climb on the coastal tramway early in the morning, then go up and down and up and down the line for the whole day. There were problems with some elder people starting fights because someone else took &#x27;their&#x27; seat, even in an almost empty tram.<p>One thing they did as mitigation was force everybody off the tram at the end of the line, which causes much moaning up to this day.
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admissionsguy将近 4 年前
I really like free entry to public things. Like the museums in the UK. Not so much for the savings, but the reduced friction is nice, makes one feel more welcome. I remember Los Alamos in the US having free buses, that was also quite nice.<p>I would like there to be a funding scheme for most public services similar to the UK student loan system. Where you pay out of your own pocket, ultimately, but only as a fraction of your income and above a certain very livable minimum, and only for the services that you personally use.
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LordDragonfang将近 4 年前
Something that isn&#x27;t emphasized enough in these discussions is that public transit is one of those things that wealthy business owners actually benefit from a proportionately greater amount compared to the individuals who use it; transit brings in cheaper workers and more customers to high CoL areas where they otherwise could not get to. With that in mind, it&#x27;s never made much sense for it to be funded by individual fares rather than a progressive tax. The fact that this particular implementation is funded by business taxes actually makes a ton of sense.
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jjcm将近 4 年前
Good. I&#x27;m excited to see the results from this. Public transport should be considered infrastructure in the same way roads are, with taxes on private vehicles to offset it. It leads to less cars on the road, less polution, less traffic, and a city designed around the public transportation once usage reaches critical mass.
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skywal_l将近 4 年前
Public transport system in France is already pretty cheap. A customer only pay around 30% of the real price, all the rest is subsided by personal or company taxes.<p>What are they trying to accomplish with this? They want more people to abandon their car and move to the public transport system? If you already made the trade off between 200euros &#x2F; months for your car (don&#x27;t forget to include initial price, gas, maintenance, etc) and a 40euros&#x2F;months for the train, making the train free will not make a difference (or a negligible one).<p>People prefer their car not because of economical reasons, but because it&#x27;s damn more practical, especially if you don&#x27;t live in the hyper-center of a european city.<p>If you want people to abandon their car you will have to increase your QoS. Densify your network in the time and spatial dimension. I would be willing to pay 10x more to have a subway station 10 minutes walk from my home. But have a free bus every 20 minutes that take me to a train station on strike 50% of the time? Cool...<p>Actually, what they are going to catch with this are all the people who were walking or taking their bike suddenly overcrowding the buses and make their service degrade due to overcrowding.<p>The problem with all this is priority. What do we want to prioritize? Public transport? No. We should prioritize the only mode of transportation that is truly green: Walking. Rethink how cities are organized so that anybody can find a decent home at a decent price from a 20 minutes walk of their office. Give incentives to employers to allow telework, subsidies home close to work, etc. Don&#x27;t force everyone to live inside a city that is as big as it used to be 300 years ago and surrounded by a super highway.<p>For the public transport system, make people pay depending on their income. It should be free for poor people or students. As an engineer, I should pay through my nose if the service is really great. If it&#x27;s not, I&#x27;ll keep using my car whatever the price, thank you.
11235813213455将近 4 年前
That&#x27;s great, another idea we&#x27;d need is more priority to bicycles on the roads, meaning this order:<p><pre><code> 1. priority vehicles (firemen, police, ambulances, ...) 2. bicycles 3. bus public transports 4. all the rest: cars, motos, .. </code></pre> Bicyles would be allowed to pass at traffic lights, and have priority in intersections on cars. This will help to promote bikes, and also because if there were only bicycles, traffic lights wouldn&#x27;t be that much necessary (extreme case with dense traffic aside), with bikes the traffic is naturally fluid, health beneficial and non-polluting
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chmike将近 4 年前
Public transport is already free of charge in some 30 cities in France. One of the pioneers is Compiègne, which introduced the measure in 1975 and has maintained it ever since. The first city with more than 100,000 inhabitants to apply this free travel was Aubagne in 2009, followed by Niort in 2017. The next milestone was reached last year with the introduction of free travel in Dunkirk, which has more than 200,000 inhabitants. It is currently the largest French agglomeration to apply free travel, and it has as many inhabitants as Besançon.<p>The only one of these cities to have a tramway is Aubagne, but it was built after the introduction of free travel and has only one short line, less than 3 kilometers long.<p>Free public transport in France is thus not really an experiment.<p>Source: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.francebleu.fr&#x2F;infos&#x2F;transports&#x2F;transports-en-commun-gratuits-ce-qui-existe-ailleurs-en-france-1575304553" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.francebleu.fr&#x2F;infos&#x2F;transports&#x2F;transports-en-com...</a>
pharmakom将近 4 年前
Hopefully this gets more people to switch from their cars! This is “the carrot”. When France tried “the stick” with a fuel duty hike, it triggered mass protests.
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wilg将近 4 年前
I think this is great! Let&#x27;s encourage people to take more efficient transport alternatives in every way we can.<p>Nickel-and-diming discourages use, complicates UX (a severely underrated issue in government services), and makes people wonder why they are paying taxes for something they still have to pay to use.
kogepathic将近 4 年前
In the mean time, perhaps France would consider adopting the approach used in many German cities whereby monthly pass holders are permitted to take another adult and 3 children for free during evenings, weekends, and holidays. [1] Many German cities also offer cheaper subscriptions if you only use public transit after 09:00.<p>This is great if you have a visiting friend, or a partner&#x2F;family who do not have monthly passes but want to go somewhere outside of business hours.<p>The RATP still considers weekly passes valid from Monday to Sunday and monthly passes valid from the 1st to the end of the month. They do not sell passes pro rata (e.g. if you buy a monthly pass on the 10th, you pay the same as someone who bought on the 1st), nor do they offer 7d&#x2F;10d passes. They recently introduced Navigo Easy to replace tickets, but this is limited to trips in zones 1-2. [2]<p>The fact that RATP are still this inflexible in 2021 does not give me confidence they can become more progressive.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bvg.de&#x2F;de&#x2F;abo-online" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bvg.de&#x2F;de&#x2F;abo-online</a><p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;parisbytrain.com&#x2F;navigo-easy&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;parisbytrain.com&#x2F;navigo-easy&#x2F;</a>
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hellbannedguy将近 4 年前
Since Covid, it seems like everyone bought a car.<p>Our busses have always been partially full, but since Covid; it seemed like every bus I saw has 1, or 0 people riding.<p>Traffic in my county (Marin County) is more congested than pre-Covid.<p>If anyone from Marin Transit reads this, how about free fares on busses, and the ferry? You might gain some customers?<p>Your agency has always had problems convincing commuters your service makes sence on any level.<p>Why not offer free service for a year?<p>(The high tolls from the Golden Gate Bridge, and state&#x2F;federal funds have supported our busses for decades now.)<p>This is the time to offer free rides.<p>Oh ya, put that Marin-Sonoma train to rest. We all passed the proposition. We had no idea there would be no where reasonable to park, and those salaries for management would be so high. Take the fences, and tracks down. It was good idea, but it didn&#x27;t work out. Nix it.<p>Or, try free rides for a year? I&#x27;m tired of seeing two coupled trains with 0 people riding.
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fmajid将近 4 年前
The title is misleading. It&#x27;s not a national policy, it&#x27;s something the Mayor of Paris was considering, and the regional council before that.
redleader55将近 4 年前
&quot;Free&quot; has become a synonym to &quot;payed by someone else&quot;. Google is &quot;free&quot;, Facebook is &quot;free&quot;, public transport in Paris is &quot;free&quot;. &quot;Free&quot; means I give you someone with no obligation from you whatsoever. In this case the citizens and businesses of Paris are paying for it, so calling it is &quot;free&quot; is disingenuous.
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NicoJuicy将近 4 年前
Dunkirk ( France) has been testing it since 2018. So i guess they liked the results ( <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.eltis.org&#x2F;in-brief&#x2F;news&#x2F;free-public-transport-dunkirk-one-year-later" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.eltis.org&#x2F;in-brief&#x2F;news&#x2F;free-public-transport-du...</a> )
asdff将近 4 年前
LA county is looking to implementing this. Fares only cover like 5% of the operating budget. Piles of money comes in through the half cent sales tax, metro is building new rail non stop since the measure was passed and coming out of the pandemic with a huge budget.
LatteLazy将近 4 年前
London has this for children and OAPs (I think kids pay a token amount if they use trains...).<p>For OAPs it&#x27;s limited to after 930am (post rush hour).<p>I think its good, but you have to be careful. London pay for this via Londons taxes. If whatever government you have isn&#x27;t prepared to make up the lost revenue (and to do so indefinitely, under all economic&#x2F;political conditions) you&#x27;re dooming your transport system.
fmajid将近 4 年前
The link is broken for me. Here is the Internet Archive version:<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20210525045931&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bbc.com&#x2F;worklife&#x2F;article&#x2F;20210519-how-france-is-testing-free-public-transport" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20210525045931&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bbc.co...</a>
giuliomagnifico将近 4 年前
Very good thing, also because in Paris a lot of people are already using private companies for moving around the city like Lime or F2M, etc... so the public authorities must keep the public services available for all.<p>The real trouble is with the tax and if and how the public transports are sustainable in the long term.
unixhero将近 4 年前
To me this makes absolute total sense.
wink将近 4 年前
I&#x27;m a bit baffled that this is coming now, where a good part of the population is probably still working from home and not leaving the house much.<p>If they want any kind of meaningful data, wouldn&#x27;t this invalidate basically everything they measure?
Havoc将近 4 年前
Make sense - almost like a UBI light in a way. Plus not exactly easy to abuse since driving up &amp; down the city isn&#x27;t exactly exciting unless you&#x27;re 5 years old.
cjbenedikt将近 4 年前
Look no further than Baltimore. We have a free bus system called Circulator. It&#x27;s not perfect, of course, but a good start.
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peteretep将近 4 年前
I’d worry that “free” creates some weird incentives that don’t exist at €0.50, but it’ll be interesting to see how it pans out
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ekianjo将近 4 年前
They were already testing it for years since they almost never enforced fining people who never purchased anything.
JI00912将近 4 年前
It&#x27;s not free. There&#x27;s a reason why France has such high taxes. They changed from a model where people pay per fare to everyone has to pay and it&#x27;s done via taxation.<p>This model may make a lot of sense, but I&#x27;d hope we could skip the kinder garden level headlines.
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chmod600将近 4 年前
I&#x27;m a fan of paying for stuff. I understand that some people can&#x27;t, and they need to be accommodated. But I think things are better when people who can pay, pay. Subsidies can be fine, but free is often a bad idea.<p>When you pay money, it&#x27;s a vote to invest more in and maintain what you are using. It also gives you some stake in it to use it appropriately, and not do absurd things just because there&#x27;s no cost.<p>Community college (in the US) is a great example. It works well, and it&#x27;s cheap and subsidized (generally the cost doesn&#x27;t stop lower-middle class people from attending). People go there to learn, teachers are there to teach. If we make it free, it will ruin it.
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dukeofdoom将近 4 年前
I&#x27;ve taken public transport in Paris. Legit feared for my life one time. No thanks. Will gladly pay to take the taxi next time.
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