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Amazon has a quota for the number of employees it would be happy to see leave

307 点作者 SonOfKyuss将近 4 年前

60 条评论

neonate将近 4 年前
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;URMIs#selection-2397.0-2397.77" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;URMIs#selection-2397.0-2397.77</a>
mabbo将近 4 年前
I&#x27;m not certain what policies exist within Amazon or what the expected URA rate is. But I can say that as a tech interviewer at Amazon, it is not possible for a hiring manager to hire people they plan to fire. The choice is not theirs.<p>In any interview loop, there are 4-6 interviewers. One is the hiring manager or a substitute for them. One is the Bar Raiser, an experienced interviewer with extra training. And the rest are guys like me who took training on how to interview.<p>When we&#x27;ve all had our time with the candidate, we meet back up to discuss. And at the end, the Bar Raiser- not the HM- makes the decision.<p>&gt; Amazon managers are hiring people they otherwise wouldn&#x27;t, or shouldn&#x27;t, just so they can later fire them to hit their goal<p>How? It&#x27;s not their choice. An HM can voice their opinion that a given candidate is great, they love them, they want them, etc, but they can&#x27;t overrule the BR, who is trained to watch for bad calls by HMs.<p>If the author wanted to criticize the concept of URA, I&#x27;m with them. I don&#x27;t think it&#x27;s a good way to operate at all. But when you double down your criticism with untrue things in order to get better press, you undermine the original valid point.
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burlesona将近 4 年前
I’m not too shocked by this. Firing people is really, truly hard. Traumatizing even. It’s so much easier to keep a low performer around and try to encourage and coach them up - and sometimes, over time, they improve enough that it works out!<p>The easier “solution” most teams default toward when someone is underperforming is to hire more people. But what I think most people don’t realize is just how much of a drag the low performers on a team are. Not only is their output below everyone else, but they lower everyone else’s output because they mess things up and other people have to invest time fixing the mess and trying to teach the person how to avoid it in the future.<p>I think there’s some opportunity to create more structured apprenticeship programs and other kinds of intensive training to help build up borderline performers into solid contributors. But in the absence of that, a good manager has to be able to recognize when someone’s performance is dragging the rest of the team down and let that person go.<p>“Mandatory firing” practices try to force this to happen, but just like stack ranking, it ends up being too crude an instrument. Within any large organization there are teams where every person on the team is a high performer, and teams were all or almost all the team are low performers. When you do any kind of stock ranking or mandatory firing across the company, you end up in situations where managers play ridiculous games like “hire to fire” in order to hang onto their talented team, or intentionally spread high performers out with a lot of low performers around them so they can always be “stack ranked” at the top.<p>Incentives are hard, managing a highly effective organization at scale is hard, and at the end of the day there’s no substitute for well-trained and highly skilled front line managers using their own judgement to make the best personnel decisions.
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stadium将近 4 年前
Amazon has many tech workers on visas, and it can be extremely anxiety inducing around performance review time. Once a manager puts a target on your back, it&#x27;s a major uphill climb to remove that target. And for someone on a visa you don&#x27;t just lose your job, you get repatriated back to your home country unless you can quickly get rehired somewhere else. Edit: And not just you, your wife and kids too, even if your kids were born here and it&#x27;s all they ever knew.<p>The other side of this perverse incentive is it encourages overwork culture, hyper-competitive work environment, and promotion oriented architecture.
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throwaway0a5e将近 4 年前
Seems like a classic case of &quot;show me the incentives I&#x27;ll show you the outcome&quot;.<p>You want managers to have more turnover than seems to naturally happen, they&#x27;ll respond by hiring under-qualified people they can fire and over-qualified people who will move on. It&#x27;s really a no-brainier solution that any manager who&#x27;s team isn&#x27;t meeting the criteria to check the box can implement in order to check the box.
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mdavis6890将近 4 年前
I didn&#x27;t read any evidence that this actually happens, and I read the incentives differently. If I was a manager I would feel that this lowers the risk for me to hire a person - if they perform well and it really works out, then great. And if not, then I know they&#x27;ll just be part of the &quot;unregretted attrition&quot; number that I have to hit. Basically I can just hire a bunch of people and see how they work out, keeping the ones that nail it and allowing the others to go find jobs they are better suited to.<p>In a world where firing or laying off people is stigmatized or penalized, I have to be much more sure of the people I hire, which isn&#x27;t so great since so often you don&#x27;t&#x2F;can&#x27;t really know until you see someone in action.
ragona将近 4 年前
I don’t know anyone at Amazon who would hire someone they were sure they’d fire. I’ve never heard of it. It’d honestly even be sort of difficult, given the hiring process and the involvement of a bar raiser (veto vote) on the hiring committee who is not on the team.<p>Now, might you take some additional risks, considering URA? Sure. But I’m not convinced that’s a bad thing. You want hiring managers to sometimes hire higher risk&#x2F;reward candidates, otherwise you get a whole bunch of identical low risk hires.<p>This article is an overblown bit of hearsay. Also, new hires aren’t even eligible to be PIP’d out of the gate, so you’d have to set it up quite a bit in advance.<p>Source: was an Amazon hiring manager for several years.
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tqi将近 4 年前
This article is pretty light on what evidence this is actually happening, or how often.<p>To me, this sounds like something that seems plausible on the surface, but in practice would make no sense. Teams are almost always short staffed, so having to carry a team member for 6 months or a year who you know is subpar seems completely illogical even with the URA metric in place. After all, it&#x27;s not like teams aren&#x27;t also measured on things like delivering projects on time.<p>EDIT: I don&#x27;t mean this to say it couldn&#x27;t be happening, it would just be nice if somewhere in this article it could mention a source.
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orange_joe将近 4 年前
Idk if it’s Bezo’s roots in finance, but Amazon seems a brutal workplace for all levels of employment (I don’t know anything about the lives of senior managers). The company outright abuses its blue collar employees, and routinely mistreats its engineering staff. Stories of its toxic practices have been spread for at least a decade now. What’s especially baffling to me, and I admit this is merely rumor, is that they’ll actually adjust your raise schedule to take into account the price of the stock, so it’s hard to imagine it being highly lucrative. Of all the big tech companies, I think Amazon is most likely to unionize.
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cratermoon将近 4 年前
Goodhart&#x27;s Law as generalized by Marilyn Strathern: When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure<p>Campbell&#x27;s law: The more any quantitative social indicator is used for social decision-making, the more subject it will be to corruption pressures and the more apt it will be to distort and corrupt the social processes it is intended to monitor.
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nineplay将近 4 年前
This sadly isn&#x27;t surprising since it&#x27;s been happening in one form or another at least since Jack Welsh, and probably earlier. He was probably just the first one to give it a name.<p>It&#x27;s never been any secret at places I&#x27;ve worked that there&#x27;s a team bonus &quot;budget&quot; - if you give one of your reports a higher bonus, that money comes out of the pocket(s) of your other reports.<p>It all results in the same behavior - you don&#x27;t have to be good, you just have to be better than everyone else on your team. A smart engineer knows how to find that team.
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throw345hn将近 4 年前
I was at the receiving end of this. Not at Amazon but at another similar Silicon Valley tech company. When I was hired I thought it was a great opportunity and moved my family to SV. First day I go in, I realized that just about couple of months before my hire date about half the team was laid off.<p>A few months in there were lots of red flags — 1. the director who is above my manager used to do code reviews and not my manager. He used to point out minor things (think linting or similar) such but was did not point out any major flaws in the code (I also reviewed others code) 2. Zero transparency- the director used to say he is going to give hints about professional development and used to ask random questions such as if I would be ok to move to another location etc - this was his prompting not mine. Hint based leadership leads to lots of water cooler talk among employees about what is going on.<p>About 8 months in, my entire team was laid off and my manager already about a month before that. It turns out I was only hired as a scapegoat to replace the negative morale in the team, people would start to leave because of previous layoffs so the director hired me so that he could tell others - ‘See, we are hiring right now’. In reality he had a 2 year plan of what he wanted to do.<p>I don’t mind layoffs I can find a job quickly but the biggest problems are for my family who I have had to relocate. After this I sweared I was never to work in SV again.<p>I now work on wall street, the team I work with is far more transparent and my manager is great.
leoedin将近 4 年前
You&#x27;d hope that the people being hired to be later fired are at least given a chance to prove themselves. There&#x27;s a world of difference between &quot;We&#x27;re not sure about this person, so let&#x27;s hire them and we can always fire them if they&#x27;re bad&quot; vs &quot;This person is definitely terrible at their job (or obnoxious) and I&#x27;m only hiring them so I don&#x27;t feel bad about definitely firing them later&quot;.<p>The first one is actually commendable - the interview process isn&#x27;t completely effective and sometimes either lack of experience or confidence can exclude otherwise capable people who might excel.
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mataug将近 4 年前
Here are some unintentional consequence of this policy,<p>- Due to the URA targets managers have to keep getting rid of people. If everyone on a team gets a &quot;A+&quot; grade, they have to get rid of the person getting &quot;A-&quot;. Many times the &quot;A-&quot; person had a difficult period in their personal lives such as a medical emergency, depression, anxiety, pandemic induced anxiety, birth of a child, death of a family member.<p>- This has a detrimental impact on team morale.<p>- The people who stay long enough realize that its every person for themselves.<p>- So code isn&#x27;t written with maintainability or customers in mind, its written with promotion and impact metrics in mind. As long as one can hit those metrics targets, it doesn&#x27;t matter what was compromised in the process. Ask anyone at amazon about the internal tooling.<p>- Tech debt, and bugs are the problem of the person who&#x27;s on-call, they can write Correction of Error document if things go terribly wrong.<p>- There are metrics for the number of comments &#x2F; revisions on a code review, if someone receives too many comments, or has too many revisions on their code review, then its counted against them. On the other hand senior engineers have figured out that putting out nitpick comments, and getting a junior engineer to go through multiple revisions results in the senior engineer having a better chance at being at top of the stack rank during OLR season. Too many isn&#x27;t a clearly defined metric, its arbitrarily applied based on the manager&#x27;s judgement.<p>- PMs get the same treatment on their documents; nitpicks, frivolous comments, spending hours and hours fine tuning every single word in a document.<p>- In a world where everyone is looking out for themselves, and has to operate in fear of being put on their manager&#x2F;skip-level&#x27;s hit-list, people are merely working towards their ultimate goal of staying long enough to see their vesting schedule complete, or their Permanent Residency approved.
varispeed将近 4 年前
The UK made it very easy this year. They created a concept of &quot;deemed employee&quot;. Basically a worker is an employee for all intents and purposes except that they don&#x27;t have any worker&#x27;s rights. It&#x27;s currently being adopted mainly in the IT sector that requires flexible work force. The main problem is that the worker needs an intermediary to be hired through - currently it must be a worker&#x27;s own company and then a fee payer that collects tax on the worker&#x27;s behalf. This all can be automated though and probably it will take a year to be implemented and streamlined. Currently this system is being exploited by the so called mini umbrellas - instead of worker having its own company, they are hired by someone else&#x27;s company set up specifically for the engagement, except that they likely pay wrong tax and pocket the worker&#x27;s money through various fees. It&#x27;s crazy, but it looks like this is some sort of an incentive for big companies to come here after Brexit.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bbc.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;uk-57021128" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bbc.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;uk-57021128</a> (these mini umbrellas are nothing new, but this year they got more power, so it will only get worse and MPs decided to ignore all proposals to fix this)
adolph将近 4 年前
<i>[Managers at Amazon are] expected to lose, either voluntarily or through termination, a specific number of employees every year. If you don&#x27;t, you&#x27;re expected to make up for it the following year. Managers are even evaluated using this metric, known as &quot;unregretted attrition rate&quot; (URA). Basically, it&#x27;s the number of people you wouldn&#x27;t be sad to see leave the company.</i><p><i>Amazon managers are hiring people they otherwise wouldn&#x27;t, or shouldn&#x27;t, just so they can later fire them to hit their goal. That completely defeats the point since--if the metric is based on sound business principles--there are people keeping their job who shouldn&#x27;t, at the expense of the sacrificial lamb.</i>
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dexen将近 4 年前
The article paints a needlessly bleak picture.<p>The neutral reading of the practice is, &quot;managers are able to take riskier hiring decisions, because they are given an allowed turnover rate&quot;.<p>Which surprisingly enough is a solution to the ever-growing worry of <i>false negatives</i> in hiring - i.e., overlooking good candidates whos resume or interview did not shine strongly enough, or who perhaps are from a shunned, misunderstood culture, or who otherwise did not fit the generic hiring practice prevalent in the society. This solution allows an organization to make riskier hiring decisions at a well understood rate - hopefully catching the <i>false negatives</i> that did slip through competing organizations&#x27; hiring process.
jvanderbot将近 4 年前
So, when they say Amazon, what do they mean? Its not just a web development company any more, and these turnover rates should be wildly different in their call centers, distribution chain, last mile delivery, server farms, ops, management, marketing, legal, design, executive suite, retail, robotics R&amp;D, main web developers, blah blah.<p>One commented said this is why they won&#x27;t work at Amazon, but if the practice is limited to, say, call centers and elsewhere is mostly ignored ... I cant imagine the principle roboticist at Amazon is hiring anyone who wouldn&#x27;t help their output.
0xbadcafebee将近 4 年前
&gt; something seems off about hiring someone just so you can fire them later. It just seems wrong.<p>It&#x27;s not just morally wrong, it&#x27;s fraud. You promise someone a job and then take it away. They will have rejected other jobs, and so now they have an even longer time to get a new job. In the mean time they have a mortgage, kids, extended family, medical bills, etc to pay. And what if they moved for the job? You&#x27;ve just knowingly defrauded them out of a salary, and fucked with their career history, making it harder for them to get hired somewhere else. How are they going to explain it to a future employer? &quot;They never wanted me to work there to begin with&quot;? That sounds great...
WalterBright将近 4 年前
The article is a little thin on evidence this is actually happening, and not just a clickbait article so they could describe Amazon as &quot;brutal&quot;.
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gcanyon将近 4 年前
Well that puts a new and disheartening spin on having gotten an offer from Amazon :-(
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hintymad将近 4 年前
I really like Netflix&#x27;s metaphor that they are like a sports team. You don&#x27;t stack rank your team and fire the bottom 15% of your team every year, especially when the team members work well together.
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w_t_payne将近 4 年前
I don&#x27;t think having an unregretted attrition rate &#x27;target&#x27; is necessarily a bad thing, but *if* you are going to go down this sort of route, then the &quot;hiring manager&quot; and the &quot;firing manager&quot; should be working to competing objectives, and not colluding in this way. The hiring manager could, for example, be incentivised to meet a lower UAR rate than the firing manager, and the decision to fire should be made based on some sort of objective measure which is difficult to game without actually impacting productivity (Maybe a metric which is hard to predict by virtue of being complex, compound and nonobvious -- which sounds like a perfect fit for a neural network of some sort -- of course, this seems all perfectly horrendous and dystopian - neural networks trained to decide who to fire? ... creepy.)
throwaway743将近 4 年前
&gt; <i>People leave, either because they move on to new opportunities or because they aren&#x27;t able to perform at a level the company deems acceptable. That happens in every company.</i><p>Or it could be that people are treated like a dogs and would be better off not being in that environment regardless of having a plan b.
mytailorisrich将近 4 年前
&gt; &quot;<i>They&#x27;re expected to lose, either voluntarily or through termination, a specific number of employees every year. If you don&#x27;t, you&#x27;re expected to make up for it the following year.</i>&quot;<p>This sounds like a re-hash of Jack Welch&#x27;s Vitality Curve [1] where you&#x27;re expected to fire the bottom 10% every year.<p>This is a crazy practice and of course the consequence is that managers will find a way to meet the targets they are assigned, however nonsensical these targets might be, for fear of getting the chop themselves. From that perspective &quot;hire to fire&quot; is actually the only logical (if crazy) option to both keep your people and meet your target.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Vitality_curve" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Vitality_curve</a>
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dboreham将近 4 年前
Why is this still news? Amazon is renowned in the industry as a place not to ever work for, isn&#x27;t it?
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stephc_int13将近 4 年前
Absurd goals defeated by Goodhart&#x27;s Law seems to be common for large organizations.<p>It is easy to see the limits of the so called invisible hand of free market, it might be more efficient than state-driven bureaucracy but it is still far from optimal.<p>Is it even possible to avoid for large organizations?
wnevets将近 4 年前
Stories like this and the politics of rankings make me so glad I never even attempted to work at Amazon. It sounds like such a miserable dystopia.
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DonHopkins将近 4 年前
Sun used to get rid of overpaid useless executives by promoting them to &quot;Vice President Of Looking For A New Job&quot;.
cloudedcordial将近 4 年前
I&#x27;d take the article with a grain of salt, too, like many others replying to this thread. Even with a grain of salt, the topic sounds like stack ranking being re-packaged: There is a metric to let go of a certain percentage of employees per quarter or year.<p>When I worked for a US company in Canada, the upper management was open the fact that stack ranking was used. They said the bottom 2% should be gone every year. There would be a quarter every once a while that looks pretty &quot;bleak&quot;. Then the office was allocated with &quot;less&quot; budget. At this point the managers picked a few people across different departments to fire. In a larger office, it&#x27;s not a difficult task. The ones who regularly stole stationary for personal use, conduct side business during regular business hours or has outdated behaviours were picked. At the beginning of the next quarter, the job postings for those openings went up to the company&#x27;s career page.<p>From the grapevine, over half of those people who were let go in this situation had difficulties finding comparable employment. The percentage sounds like a backdoor to get rid of the people who got hired because of some false positives. For that particular site of the company, these people would be let go even without stack ranking formally stated explicitly.
WORMS_EAT_WORMS将近 4 年前
Just curious since I&#x27;m not too close to that world, how hard is it generally to get fired from say Google, Facebook, Apple, Microsoft, or generally other big tech companies?
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bitshiftfaced将近 4 年前
I know we&#x27;re supposed to reflect on how this is some commentary on today&#x27;s society and whatnot, but I can&#x27;t help but think about how you&#x27;d go about fixing this perverse incentive.<p>Let&#x27;s assume that 95% of hires are &quot;good&quot; and 5% are &quot;bad.&quot; Let&#x27;s say a manager hires 3 people a year, and currently oversees 100 people. Correct me if I&#x27;m wrong, but it sounds like the point of URA is to make sure managers fire the portion of that 5% who don&#x27;t quit voluntarily. If the voluntary portion is 2%, then we&#x27;d expect the manager to fire 3%, or 3 people in our example year.<p>If 100% of those fired were of the 3 that were most recently hired, then obviously there&#x27;s a problem. We&#x27;d expect each of new hires to only have a 5% chance of being &quot;bad.&quot; The thing to do is to track what percent of the manager&#x27;s hires within, say, the last year were part of that URA. If it passes some threshold, then either the manager is doing a poor job of hiring or they&#x27;re trying to game the system.
sjg007将近 4 年前
Seems weird. Amazon has this whole bar raiser concept which means that there&#x27;s a few folks who ensure that new hires basically exceed the standard. It should be the sort of program that filters out this type of hiring.<p>Separately, I think companies in general are doing performance management all wrong anyway. We focus on individuals; not on teams and we ask the wrong questions.
tinyhouse将近 4 年前
This seems very strange. Amazon has a serious hiring process. Hiring managers cannot just hire people as they wish. There&#x27;s a bar raiser and all interviewers provide their feedback. The bar raiser&#x27;s job is to prevent hiring someone who didn&#x27;t perform well in the interviewers. Internal transfers are different, the hiring manager has all the freedom.
theonlybutlet将近 4 年前
What an insane measure, how do people think this is normal? I can imagine having a staff retention ratio whereby you need to keep it above a certain level (an indirect measure of staff happiness and thereby retaining expertise, know-how). But to think that you should be constantly firing people in a growing business is perverse.
oh_sigh将近 4 年前
I was involved in some hiring decisions at Amazon many years ago. When I asked people, including my director, why we didn&#x27;t do post mortems for when someone was fired for underperformance(and see where the interview process failed to pick up on that info, if it was available), all I got were strange looks.
silicon2401将近 4 年前
This type of practice is what makes me not even consider FAANG jobs. I&#x27;ve (tactfully) told their recruiters I&#x27;m not interested; you&#x27;d have to pay me 500k minimum to even consider having to live on the west coast, dealing with their terrible work life balance, and having to worry about firing on top of everything else. Per this article, you could unknowingly have an expiration date on your employment. From personal contacts at Facebook, they specifically want you to get &quot;needs improvement&quot; on performance reviews to show that you&#x27;re really pushing yourself; if you&#x27;re doing well, you&#x27;re not being pushed hard enough. I&#x27;m definitely not masochistic or interested in money&#x2F;tech enough to work at a place like that.
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coding123将近 4 年前
I don&#x27;t know if this is somewhat similar to other companies I won&#x27;t name, but there&#x27;s a practice of hiring contractors that work for a &quot;contracting company&quot; as a W2, but then works &quot;in the office&quot; at another company. I did this a couple times. One thing I would say is that even though my contract was 6 months, the contacts you get is incredible through doing this. It also offers people a way to get a job at more stable companies without the insane interview process.<p>Definitely helps open doors for people that would otherwise not have a chance at getting a job at the place.<p>That all being said, if this is different from what I described, ok.
rsj_hn将近 4 年前
Bottom line is that you can be very selective in hiring and then very slow to fire, or you can be very accepting in hiring and very fast to fire. Amazon has a reputation of being a company that is relatively easy to get into and thus it will always be a company that is quick to let people go.<p>Now that doesn&#x27;t mean you need official targets of firing X% each year, you can implement &quot;fast to fire&quot; badly, but even the best possible implementation of &quot;fast to fire&quot; is going to be more unpleasant for employees than those in a slow-to-hire, slow-to-fire company.
alexfromapex将近 4 年前
What a terrible company, working on divesting from them in my personal life
Schwolop将近 4 年前
Is this a measure, or a target?<p>If it&#x27;s a measure, _shrug_, I see it as fairly inevitable in a big enterprise. Some people will leave for good, bad, and miscellaneous reasons. 6% turnover at a big enterprise seems pretty low IMHO.<p>If it&#x27;s a target - wtf? Actively forcing out satisfactory staff to hit an arbitrary number is a bizarre way to operate.<p>I know the media loves to suggest Amazon has horrible work practices, but seeing as one explanation of this number is sensible enough and the other is batshit crazy, I choose to assume they&#x27;re applying it in the sensible way.
avmich将近 4 年前
So now you can have a line in your resume that you worked in Amazon - one of FAANG - and it&#x27;s easier to get there.<p>Good.<p>And also you&#x27;re not incentivized to make particularly good work there, as you&#x27;ll be fired soon.<p>Great.<p>&#x2F;s
christkv将近 4 年前
Somebody make a website to hire people with the purpose to fire them (faangcannonfodder.com). If the deal is straight forward I&#x27;ll take a big paycheck for a year.
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bg24将近 4 年前
Not so much as hire-to-fire from my limited experience. When they hire you, they want you to succeed. However, the pressure to deliver is there and it is real, good is many ways.<p>And firing typically is totally unrelated to hiring. Firing decisions are for typical bottom X%, or product not doing good and actions need to be taken. It is easy to say that leaders do it to save their ass, but there is more to it and almost in every organization.
bestcoder69将近 4 年前
For those asking “where is the source that managers are actually doing this”: it’s linked but behind a paywall: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20210511140314&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.businessinsider.com&#x2F;amazon-managers-performance-reviews-hire-to-fire-internal-turnover-goal-2021-5" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20210511140314&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.busin...</a><p>BI talked to managers who admitted to doing this.<p>It’s odd to me to deny it. We have the motive, means, and the opportunity. And not to mention the admission!<p>Amazon is large so it’s unsurprising that some people here haven’t seen it.<p>One thing that I find interesting is that Amazon PR denied the existence of even URA rates, but I’ve heard managers IRL admit they exist.
rrauenza将近 4 年前
Back in the 2000&#x27;s I heard Cisco also was like this. You&#x27;d hire your &quot;cannon fodder&quot; for the next round of mandatory layoffs.
chrledntsurf将近 4 年前
BI has become a go to for semi-factual insidery tech gossip&#x2F;hit pieces. 80-90% of what they post is bullshit.
albertTJames将近 4 年前
I have hard time imagining how this &quot;unregretted attrition rate&quot; (URA) works for very specialised position like research scientists. If you expect to lose even 1 of those per year it seem like the interview process could be a bit lighter.
cryptonector将近 4 年前
Performance metrics gamed yet again! Even managers will game their own performance metrics.<p><pre><code> Amazon: we want to hire you. Candidate: uh, put it in writing that you won&#x27;t fire me for 18 months minimum.</code></pre>
whatever1将近 4 年前
It’s all fun when you are growing. It becomes hunger games contest when you are shrinking and you end up putting at the bottom people that previously were your average employee.
hownottowrite将近 4 年前
Management gaming the system? I’m so shocked.<p>But how else do you manage a mill system where talent is the grist? You don’t. You just hire them all and let HR sort it out.
mlcrypto将近 4 年前
I just ignore all FANG recruiters in my inbox lol. The time &amp; emotional investment is not worth it just to get declined with no feedback
antattack将近 4 年前
What&#x27;s brutal is that healthcare tied to employment.
krinchan将近 4 年前
Gotta love how the Amazon astroturfs are already here.
ruined将近 4 年前
these comments are full of (presumably) tech workers explaining it&#x27;s probably only happening to the warehouse workers, and thus ok<p>do yall understand that things like this are directly causative of the great frustration and antagonism against &quot;techies&quot; nationally and particularly in every city that has been changed by this industry?<p>it is understood by everyone else that tech workers bear some responsibility for this culture and these behaviors, but tech workers themselves seem to deny it or not believe it.
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gher-shyu3i将近 4 年前
Isn&#x27;t this basically stack ranking?
dafty4将近 4 年前
Click-bait headline, much?
SilurianWenlock将近 4 年前
How is Amazon in Europe?
dang将近 4 年前
Url changed from <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.inc.com&#x2F;jason-aten&#x2F;amazons-controversial-hire-to-fire-practice-reveals-a-brutal-truth-about-management.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.inc.com&#x2F;jason-aten&#x2F;amazons-controversial-hire-to...</a>, which points to this.
yuppie_scum将近 4 年前
Anybody grinding leetcode to try and get into a FAANG just “because FAANG” should read this article.<p>There are thousands of other well-paying, respected companies that don’t treat their employees like shit.