Why My Father Hated India

One of the things that consistently puzzle me is how different cultures handle change.<p>Over the past 150 years, the world has seen all kinds of terrible wars, killing hundreds of millions of people and causing all sorts of hatred and ill will.<p>Some of these cultures get up, dust themselves off, and go on -- sometimes achieving greatness. Other cultures, sometimes with far less injustice done (if you can measure these things, which I doubt) carry grudges seemingly forever.<p>Even in personal relations, I've known people in the states who suffered terribly by some criminal, only to have them forgive the criminal and move on with their lives. On the other hand, there are those who suffered the same thing who carry hatred in their heart until they die.<p>I remember seeing a person on TV from Jerusalem. They were talking about how their great-great grandfather lived in a house but was evicted by the Israelis. And how angry they were about it all. I could see that this was really bothering them.<p>Hell, if I spent my time emoting over wrongs my entire ancestry both committed and suffered through, I wouldn't have much left of a life left.<p>Why the difference? That's above my pay grade -- hence the reason I find it so fascinating. I can unequivocally say, however, that hating someone or some culture is a fool's game that hurts the hater much more than the object of hatred. There is a terrible strain of nihilism alive in the world. So many lives wasted by it. Very sad.

The article was unexpectedly heart wrenching to read. India takes its very name from the Indus valley that lies in Pakistan, while the most famous example of Islamic architecture is the Taj Mahal in India. It is sad watching the two countries' governments waste time, energy and lives in a conflict that is essentially at a stalemate.

I'm torn about this. India is a much more pluralistic society, and Pakistan is a failed state. But one of the points made early on in the article makes it seem as if the Partition was entirely Pakistan's idea, and the hundreds of thousands (millions?) of people who died were all innocent Hindus being slaughtered at the hands of murderous Muslims. "But violence erupted, and it quickly became clear that in the new homeland for India's Muslims, there would be no place for its non-Muslim communities. Pakistan and India came into being at the cost of a million lives and the largest migration in history." Which is far from the reality; it was a clusterfuck all around, and communal violence was the rule of the day on both sides of the partition line.<p>It wasn't just Muslims in the 30s who called for two separate states. Many Hindus did too. It's true, the most prominent Hindu in the struggle (Gandhi) wanted a single state and tried to (in theory, at least) accommodate the large Muslim minority. For those efforts he was assassinated by a religious extremist.<p>Of course, you hear religious extremist and you might assume it was some Muslim who thought Gandhi was too effective a voice for unity. To the contrary, it was a Hindu nationalist who thought Gandhi was a sellout to the Muslims.<p>This strain of Hindu nationalism that endorses the use of violence has appeared again and again. As recently as 2002 a riot occurred in which a Hindu mob murdered around a thousand Muslims.<p>All this isn't to say the Muslims on the subcontinent are all paragons of virtue and liberalism. They aren't. But the story the author tells is just a pleasant story, meant to appeal to the baser instincts of Wall Street Journal readers. Maybe more than that, it's a story meant to appeal to India's own self conception, where it's as pure as snow and it's those dastardly Pakistanis who've made everything terrible.

Being a Pakistani (and Punjabi) American myself, I do not agree with some of the views the author puts forward.<p>First, Pakistanis do define themselves primarily as 'non-Indians'. However, the view that Pakistan has somehow carved out a new identity is the past 60 years is false. 5,000 years of shared heredity, language, customs and political history don't shake off that easily. Even Pakistanis and their relationship to religion is very similar to Indian Hindus and their relationship to Hinduism. Just as there are extremist groups in Pakistan, there are extremist Hindus in India. Pakistani's are more Indian that they want to believe and vice versa - especially if you live in the West where the two groups meld together indistinguishably.<p>The second point I disagree with is that minorities left only Pakistan (because of communal violence). History shows that there was a reciprocal exodus of Indian Muslims to Pakistan. Communal violence is one of the defining aspects of the sub continent.<p>Lastly, many of the poets, philosophers and British bureaucrats did predict one thing correctly - being a minority in a Hindu majority India ultimately would have a ruinous effects on Indian Muslims - formerly some of the most educated and economically prosperous citizens of India. South Asian culture is one of rabid communalism and today Indian Muslims are less educated, less wealth and less politically represented than in any part of India's long history.<p>Sometimes I wonder what impact it would have had on both sides of the border if the new nation had been called "West India".

Very good and balanced article overall. The hatred of each other has become so deep rooted in both the countries and the mutual suspicion so strong that it is too late that the relationship can be changed. But we still owe it our next generation to work towards peace so that the wealth that belongs to them does not get spent in keeping up the needless hostility. We cannot let the past ruin the lives of the poorest people in the world who live in this region. It is time for the Pakistani people to call a spade a spade. They cannot take refuge anymore in the filmsy excuses and their needless obsession with Kashmir anymore. If they don't do anything now and continue to behave as they have done till now for the last 60 years, it will be too late. Pakistan as a nation is literally on its last breath and it needs an immediate shock treatment by its own people if it wants to survive. India will continue to grow and survive but it is Pakistan whose survival at stake. If Pakistani people continue to behave like ostriches with their heads in sand, then they will have only themselves to blame and not any of their make believe enemies like US or India.

Has there ever been a case where defining yourself as a negative of something resulted in a success?

Most of the people calling it off-topic are being downvoted. So let me refer to the HN Guidelines:<p>What to Submit<p>On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity.<p>Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic.

I think rest of the world should stop mirroring India with Pakistan. There is hell lot of difference between these two countries. India is developing fast, its diverse, secular and no threat to global peace. Pakistan on other hand is a failed state.

"Resentment is like drinking poison and then hoping it will kill your enemies." — NelsonMandela

This article is timely, in light of (yet another) terrorist attack on Mumbai by allegedly Islamic militants. I'm going to go out on a limb here and claim that this attack is only the latest in a long bloody series of consequences of Partition.<p>The history of armed communal militancy, both Hindu and Muslim, began with the Kashmir movement in the late 80's; this itself was a side-effect of Partition. This was the first time communal tension took on a decidedly dark tone with armed militants entering the picture. Since then, things have only become worse, with the Pakistan establishment actively supporting and arming anti-India militants and Hindu nationalists in India attempting to derail any possibility of reconciliation by repeated acts of religious intolerance. The current situation vis-a-vis Mumbai is quite pathetic, with politicians falling over each other to get a quote out; and the people of Mumbai developing a horrible sense of resigned apathy, touted regularly as 'resilience'.<p>What is the solution? I don't know. (War, of course, is guaranteed to always be the wrong answer). A reasonable answer, as always, is economics. If the economies of both countries improve, the resulting improved education and decrease in poverty might provide a solution. India seems to be on the right track here; Pakistan, not so much.

I found this article extremely interesting. If you haven't watched the 'beating retreat ceremony' video, make sure you do, it's one of the most bizarre things I've ever seen.

Interesting, but not relevant.

this conflict is a waste of human capital. i hope the fog of ignorance is lifted very soon and the desire for profit brings people together.

Pakistan(83) is a better nation to do business than India(134) <a href="http://www.doingbusiness.org/rankings" rel="nofollow">http://www.doingbusiness.org/rankings</a>

During Indo-Pak partition in 1947 the agreement is that all Muslim majority regions should be merged with Pakistan and all Hindu majority regions should be merged with India.<p>India betrayed by annexing Muslim majority Kashmir and Hyderabad.<p>UNSC passed multiple resolutions since 1948 advising India, Pakistan &#38; China to give Independence to Kashmir, Tibet &#38; Aksai Chin.<p>Obsession with Kashmir is burning rest of the India.

As per New Economics Foundation, Bhutan(17), Sri Lanka(22), Pakistan(24) nations are happier than India(35). <a href="http://www.rediff.com/business/slide-show/slide-show-1-worlds-10-happiest-countries/20110610.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.rediff.com/business/slide-show/slide-show-1-world...</a>

According to <a href="https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Sachar_Committee_Report" rel="nofollow">https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Sachar_Commit...</a> report the status of Indian Muslims are below the conditions of <a href="https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Untouchables" rel="nofollow">https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Untouchables</a>

Compared to India, a higher percentage of women in Pakistan feel they are treated with respect. As per National Crime Records Bureau, every 26 minutes a rape is committed in India and out of which 30% are against minors. <a href="http://ibnlive.in.com/news/more-women-respected-in-pakistan-than-india-report/134473-19-93.html?from=tn" rel="nofollow">http://ibnlive.in.com/news/more-women-respected-in-pakistan-...</a>

The author had daddy issues. BTW, what is this article even doing on HN?<p>My take: Kashmir == root cause. Fix that first, grant independence.

I will probably get downvoted but articles like these do not belong on HN.<p>This is just a propaganda article from the Indians, to make Pakistanis look bad.<p>Now there will be propaganda articles from the Pakistanis next, to make Indians look bad.<p>To pass propaganda is very normal for these two third world countries, they have faught 3 wars since independence in the last 60 years and still half the population in both countries live in poverty.