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EU withheld a study that shows piracy doesn't hurt sales (2017)

987 点作者 seesawtron将近 4 年前

37 条评论

marshallbananas将近 4 年前
As someone who grew up in Eastern Europe in the early 2000s, with a a taste for Western media, especially movies, and the Internet becoming a widespread thing, it was infuriating waiting for movies to come to theaters months behind the rest of the world. Not to mention the horrible country specific posters and advertising, limited availability and titles. Piracy was the only option.<p>It felt like the Internet would solve all these problems, like you&#x27;d be able to experience culture from any part of the world however you liked and at the same time as the rest of the world. Sadly that never happened. It&#x27;s much better now but it still feels like the media is crippled by old local distributor deals. The fact that e.g. Netflix offers different movies for every country is something that honestly does not make any sense yet everyone accepts it.<p>When I got my first Kindle 12 years ago my Amazon account was registered with my local European address so the books available in store were all complete trash romance pulp novels. Once I simply changed my home address to some random location in New York I suddenly had access to hundreds of thousands more titles. The Internet never delivered on its promise.
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aneutron将近 4 年前
I was born and raised in an African country. My father had a salary of 500$ a month. I could never afford a 50$ book about resiliency engineering or about Java Concurrency when I was 17 years old, neither could my father.<p>The reason I love computer science and tech and excel at some parts of it, is simply because I could access any book, pirated. I have a huge will to learn, and piracy was quite literally the only means to learn. Once I worked and got on my feet, I started buying a lot of the books that marked my learning (because nostalgia and also great resources), and if and when I can, I always buys the books.<p>Let&#x27;s not talk about movies. My town STILL has no cinema. Nearest one is 100Km away, and costs about 15$ for a ticket. So if it wasn&#x27;t for piracy, I would&#x27;ve probably never watched Iron Man, and never dreamed of having my own Jarvis, and hence never taking up speech recognition and deep learning. Again, now that I can, I had periods where I watched 3 to 5 movies a week in the cinema, because I have the means to.<p>I believe people are more likely to buy books&#x2F;movies when they can. But for those who can&#x27;t, I believe it&#x27;s almost always a net positive to society to give them access to those resources.
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beezischillin将近 4 年前
I grew up poor in Eastern Europe. Very poor, in fact. Without piracy I probably wouldn’t ever have been able to learn English, find my passion and make it in life. And not just for monetary reasons but due to access as well. Ironically enough the Internet never mattered too much because we were able to get what we wanted hand to hand. The 56k modem was completely useless when your friend had a zip drive with the games you drooled over. But it taught me to appreciate things. Even today I love physical copies of things, it is like a little trophy to the thing I love.<p>My biggest problem nowadays is not that I can’t afford the things I love but that there is hardly anything I actually want. But when I do I often get multiple copies, whether it is on different platforms or to share the joy with friends.<p>That being said the effects of piracy are both severe and negligible due to the quality. While it probably doesn’t affect big corporations at all, the small indie people sometimes suffer catastrophically from it.
hulitu将近 4 年前
From eastern europe: piracy cannot hurt sells when: 1. The title is not available in your country and 2. When the title is too expensive for the people to buy it. Piracy however helps sells. When i like some movie or music that i pirated, chances are big that i will buy it. When i don&#x27;t know about it, the MPAA can keep it. Marketing failure all the way.
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wiradikusuma将近 4 年前
I played pirated games when I was a kid (actually I didn&#x27;t know it was pirated, I bought them off CD shops).<p>Growing up with more money to spend, I bought legit copies of those games (and more) from GOG just feeling nostalgic. Heck I don&#x27;t even play them.<p>Now I don&#x27;t play pirated games, simply because the potential problems (virus etc) outweighs the cost (I usually wait for Steam&#x2F;GOG&#x2F;Epic sale anyway).<p>Same thing for software.<p>For books.. during uni time I usually borrow books from uni library, and make a copy for personal use (so I can highlight the pages). I guess that&#x27;s piracy.
JohnStrangeII将近 4 年前
I have a bit of a stupid question related to the topic. I&#x27;m self-publishing German sci fi and fantasy novels, nothing special, just some good entertainment (if you like my writing style). Since you cannot have a readership without Amazon and do appreciate the pocket money, I sell them on Amazon. At the same time Amazon does not allow me to give them away for free.<p>Is there a way I can give away my novels as &quot;pirated ebooks&quot; to a German audience without having to seed a torrent and without making this easily traceable back to me as the author?<p>It would probably even boost sales and also help people with less money, I just don&#x27;t know how to do it. :(
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rob74将近 4 年前
What the article doesn&#x27;t mention: Julia Reda, who &quot;unearthed&quot; the report, was an MEP for the Pirate Party at the time. She left the party in 2019 to protest against the nomination of a candidate who was under investigation for sexual harassment (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Julia_Reda" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Julia_Reda</a>).
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trompetenaccoun将近 4 年前
Of course, they don&#x27;t want to get in trouble with powerful American lobbyist groups. Same reason local authorities went after the Pirate Bay guys despite them not having broken any laws in Sweden.
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GuB-42将近 4 年前
The thing is: people have a budget, whether they want it or not. So, when they spend $50 to buy a video game, that&#x27;s $50 less for theaters. It is all connected, so I think that in the end, free piracy (like torrenting) doesn&#x27;t change much on the global scale.
AussieWog93将近 4 年前
I just can&#x27;t believe this.<p>Almost every single person I knew back in the day who installed Limewire&#x2F;Kazaa&#x2F;Bearshare, bought an R4 cartridge or modded their Wii went from buying at least a couple of pieces of genuine media each year to never buying one again.<p>That being said, perhaps a more useful metric for calculating lost sales would be how many people acquired the technology used for piracy, rather than how many times they used it.
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sharken将近 4 年前
It&#x27;s worth noting that the EU-paid study was done in 2013, back when streaming and YouTube was on the rise. Billboard called streaming unignorable in 2013.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.billboard.com&#x2F;amp&#x2F;articles&#x2F;business&#x2F;8545169&#x2F;2013-year-of-streaming" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.billboard.com&#x2F;amp&#x2F;articles&#x2F;business&#x2F;8545169&#x2F;2013...</a><p>Still, there probably needs to be some legislation around piracy, even though it seems to not affect sales much.
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sleavey将近 4 年前
The study mentioned in the article notes the only downside to piracy is for recently released blockbusters, where 10 pirated downloads leads to 4 fewer cinema visits. I wonder how much of that would be offset if streaming of blockbusters was available from day 1. No one would expect it to be included in Netflix subscriptions but available as an additional one-off purchase equivalent to say one month of subscription. The only losers here would be cinemas, but after decades of price gauging I think plenty would have little sympathy.<p>It&#x27;d be interesting to find out of film companies have studied this idea. Presumably there is some limit where blockbuster &quot;viewing parties&quot; with N or more people would make less money for the film than some fraction of those N people going to the cinema. They can&#x27;t (yet) DRM living rooms.
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anfogoat将近 4 年前
I wouldn&#x27;t worry about this too much. The Commissioners they swear an oath you know. An oath to be wholly independent, so we can rule out this having been them serving special interests or anything of the sort.
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radicalbyte将近 4 年前
Page didn&#x27;t load for me, thankfully we have outline to the rescue:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;outline.com&#x2F;6XShGU" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;outline.com&#x2F;6XShGU</a>
oliwarner将近 4 年前
Distribution bullshit hurts sales more than piracy.<p>&quot;You can only watch this two months after the US release&quot;, &quot;This isn&#x27;t available in your country&quot;, &quot;You need an internet connection to watch this&quot;, &quot;You can&#x27;t watch this on Linux&quot;, &quot;You need to pay for 170 channels to watch one&quot;, &quot;This that one show you want to watch requires a £12.99 monthly subscription&quot;, &quot;You will pay cinema prices but will have to supply the TV, seating and only get to play it back once&quot;, &quot;You will pay new-DVD prices but won&#x27;t be able to share it with a friend&quot;<p>We pretend that the surge of Netflix, Prime, Disney online services means this is getting more open, more free, but it the same game via a different medium.<p>Piracy still offers a better service, less bullshit. If they stopped treating people like criminals, yes, they might lose some cash, but they&#x27;d also pull in the people they&#x27;ve lost to years of abuse.
scaramanga将近 4 年前
&quot;Would you ever imagine the manager of a firm making a statement publicly in opposition to his board of directors?&quot; - Mario Savio, quoting UC President Clark Kerr
vagrantJin将近 4 年前
Yeah. To be fair. The people who pirate were likely never going to buy it in the first place.<p>Like FIFA games. I&#x27;ve never bought one even though Ive been playing for years. But I grew up with no money to buy them amd when I did have the money, the game was all about microtransactions. So its still a no.
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IgorPartola将近 4 年前
This has been my argument for a while now: people pirate content because they wouldn’t be customers if they had to pay for it. In other words while RIAA&#x2F;MPAA can argue that by torrenting the latest blockbuster you cost them $20 in rental fees or a movie ticket in reality you wouldn’t have bought those things, to a first approximation.
jpalomaki将近 4 年前
I think software piracy hurts&#x2F;benefits companies in complicated ways. When kids trade copies of Photoshop, Adobe benefits from this. This allows people to learn the tool and strenghtens Adobe’s status. On the other hand more affordable options suffer. Why pay even $20 for the second best, if you can get the best for free.
lampe3将近 4 年前
I was born in Poland in the end of the 80s and lived from the 90s in Germany. Back then the only way to watch Polish Media in Germany was either via Satellite TV or VHS.<p>Around the 00s I was into Polish Rap. Buying a CD in Germany from a polish Artist was something that you just couldn&#x27;t do. So the only option I had was to download it.<p>Later when I wanted to buy the CD I couldn&#x27;t because either the store did not had it or it was sold out.<p>If I wanted to watch polish tv shows or cartoons I either needed to later download them or my family needed to record them on VHS.<p>In this regard the Internet helped when it comes to Music.<p>But when it comes to tv shows and movies... Its a mess and you will end up with 10 subscriptions and hope that you find that show.<p>I also think that with movies and tv shows, piracy and will come back because of that reason alone.
tasubotadas将近 4 年前
Can&#x27;t help but think that this is Germany&#x27;s influence - there are extremely strong IP groups that try to push ridiculous IP protection laws EU-wide and, obviously, this paper didn&#x27;t help to push their discourse so it had to be buried.
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globular-toast将近 4 年前
&gt; with ten downloads leading to about four fewer cinema visits.<p>These things aren&#x27;t equal, though. As someone who loves the cinema I find it very sad, but maybe people just want to watch these things at home on their small screens now? The cinema industry hasn&#x27;t helped matters by essentially turning cinemas into giant, automated TV screens.<p>If piracy actually <i>hurt</i> movie sales, they simply wouldn&#x27;t do home media. They&#x27;d print film on reels making it very difficult to pirate (in high quality, at least). But they don&#x27;t because home media makes them tons of money, despite the piracy.
deltron3030将近 4 年前
Kinda funny how the overall interest in Photoshop tanked since they introduced their cloud service. (If you look it up on Google Trends you can clearly see a big dip from 2012 onwards).
Bancakes将近 4 年前
Piracy has only become a supposed problem because corporations expect every consumer to purchase the product separately. I can&#x27;t buy a game or album off ebay - I <i>must</i> buy the real thing.<p>As far as videogames go, you can&#x27;t blame piracy if your game doesn&#x27;t have a demo version. No, I&#x27;m not paying Steam 100 euros for 2 hours that I may or may not get refunded.
BringerOfChaos将近 4 年前
I&#x27;m a book author of several titles from multiple publishers. This correlates with my experience. In fact, when I&#x27;ve found my books on pirate sites it has tended to correlate with a bump in sales, presumably because someone who wouldn&#x27;t have seen them downloaded and decided they were worth the price and threw some money my way.
55555将近 4 年前
I didn&#x27;t read the article, and I agree with the premise, but don&#x27;t get carried away. Ofcourse piracy _can_ detract from purchases. Pornography was a massive pay-for-content industry that was pretty much entirely decimated by the rise of tube sites.
arpa将近 4 年前
piracy is the only answer when you get bullshit like this:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;watannetwork.com&#x2F;tools&#x2F;blocked&#x2F;#url=oRqjVPljSGQ" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;watannetwork.com&#x2F;tools&#x2F;blocked&#x2F;#url=oRqjVPljSGQ</a>
wly_cdgr将近 4 年前
Why? Were they worried that releasing the study would increase piracy and hurt sales?
fleaaaaa将近 4 年前
I don&#x27;t know much about other medium but I know some folks who&#x27;s sharing shit tons of library on soulseek are spending much more money on local music scene than average. Kinda make sense..
injidup将近 4 年前
So funny. An article on how piracy doesn&#x27;t hurt sales followed by so many posts by people boasting how they would never pay for anything because they can download it for free.
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JohnHaugeland将近 4 年前
It&#x27;s weird how, when you read the study, or even the first concrete sentence they say about it, it actually says something very, very different<p>&gt; It concluded that one specific category, blockbuster movies, is negatively impacted by piracy, with ten downloads leading to about four fewer cinema visits. Overall, that reduced sales for certain films by about 4.4 percent on average.
varsketiz将近 4 年前
Piracy is showing that the business model for products being pirated is supposed to be freemium.
neycoda将近 4 年前
Well, stealing is bad, you know?
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__m将近 4 年前
what&#x27;s the point though? If you make it legal it will definitely hurt sales
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einpoklum将近 4 年前
EU rep: We couldn&#x27;t help it, the study was stolen by pirates!
ArkanExplorer将近 4 年前
I&#x27;ve read the whole study.<p>TLDR: Correlation, not causation.<p>Basically, they found that Customer A spent $100 on games, and consumed 50 units worth of Piracy.<p>But Customer B spent only $30 on games, and consumed 10 units of piracy.<p>They then concluded that piracy lead to more consumption.<p>The obvious rebuttals are:<p>1. More voracious consumers of games will probably buy more and pirate more anyway<p>2. It sucks if you are one of the pirated games (eg. singleplayer, non-DRM), who loses out from this equation<p>3. Its great if you&#x27;re eg. Fortnite or Steam, where pirated games serve as the enticement to join the ecosystem, and when customers do eventually spend, it comes to you given your huge size.
beckman466将近 4 年前
“Digital piracy and the digital copying of cultural products for private use is a refusal to pay rent-tribute to knowledge capitalists. Therefore, piracy is miss-naming of the phenomenon. The sea pirates take away by force others&#x27; properties. The digital “pirates” only use universal commons which have been artificially fenced off. They just remove fences, and by doing so they do not take away knowledge, because, knowledge cannot be taken away. They use something which by its nature belongs to the whole of humanity. The producer of knowledge uses knowledge, as “raw” material, which is part of the general intellect of humanity as a whole and the produced knowledge itself becomes immediately part of this general intellect. Therefore, the fencing of knowledge is, essentially, more similar to the traditional piracy. The knowledge capitalist fences off, with help of the force of law, universal commons that does not exclusively belong to her&#x2F;him. Therefore, s&#x2F;he robs commons.<p>To put it bluntly, digital piracy takes back that which has been stolen from the public. Therefore, although illegal, it is morally and ethically justified. The very fact that public ethics and the bourgeois property rights contradict each other on this matter evidences that such rights are superfluous in our era of digital technology. In this way, the digital piracy and digital counterfeiting is an important economic-social movement of our time.<p>This movement is expressed in various ways including the following. First millions of individuals around the world, understanding and believing that they are not involved in theft, copy things for individual uses. The historical, cultural and political significance of this practice can hardly be exaggerated. It undermines the moral and ethical legitimacy of the bourgeois intellectual property in the very pours and veins of everyday life. Digital piracy is a major force of the growth of knowledge and culture, on the one hand, and the self-improvement of the individual on the other. Second, “pirate” activists illegally copy fenced off knowledge and make it available for a global public on the net. A good example was Gigapedia digital library on the net, which was created by activists who scanned books. These activists are either from poorer countries or classes, or our era’s Robin Hoods from privileged countries and classes. Aaron Swartz was one such Robin Hood. The very massive and online and offline protests against SOPA in the USA and ACTA (Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement ) in the European Union, and their temporary success, are evidence of the moral legitimacy of digital piracy and digital counterfeiting.&quot;<p>- Professor Jakob Rigi<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;triple-c.at&#x2F;index.php&#x2F;tripleC&#x2F;article&#x2F;view&#x2F;487&#x2F;1146" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;triple-c.at&#x2F;index.php&#x2F;tripleC&#x2F;article&#x2F;view&#x2F;487&#x2F;1146</a>
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