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Restoring your privacy costs money, which makes it a marker of class

144 点作者 drocer88将近 4 年前

16 条评论

yoaviram将近 4 年前
I&#x27;m the creator of YourDigitalRights.org, a free and open source service in the privacy space. When we started 3 years ago we decided to make the service free precisely because of the reasons outlined in this article. Almost every week I get an offer to monetize the service in some way, but I still think you shouldn&#x27;t need to pay for privacy (literally as I was writing this comment I got an email offering to pay for our web extension).<p>One of the problems is that there is very little funding available for my sort of nonprofits. Even Mozilla with their startup studio program, which is focused on privacy, target commercial ventures. I guess that the bottom line is that as a society we do not prioritize privacy over other ambitions. This is strange to me because there&#x27;s some truth to privacy being a &quot;maker of class&quot;. Not sure how to reconcile the two.
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resonious将近 4 年前
I feel like the idea of privacy as a luxury is not limited to high-tech society. Do poor people in a primitive society have more privacy than poor people in a developed country?<p>We&#x27;re always so concerned with machines recognizing us, but what about other people? If I live in a small village, the owner of the general store will surely remember my face just like an ML-laden camera or POS system. We get creeped out when machines suggest things related to our past behavior, but love it when the bartender already knows what we like. People who remember you can spread rumors just like your data can be sold to another company.<p>I&#x27;m not trying to say that privacy doesn&#x27;t matter at all, of course. I&#x27;m just wondering how much things have actually changed, privacy-wise.
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csunbird将近 4 年前
Everyone seem to forget the fact that, if you are able to pay just for the sake of privacy, your data is now even more valuable, since you signal that you have disposable income to spend on things that &quot;common folk&quot; can not afford to.<p>Advertisers want to target you specifically. The better idea should be to feed them incorrect information and intentionally poison the data.
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1vuio0pswjnm7将近 4 年前
If the author&#x27;s premise is correct, that privacy is a marker of class, then a conclusion drawn from that is more people will be striving for greater privacy.<p>TBH, the comments are more interesting than the author&#x27;s opinion.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;forums.theregister.com&#x2F;forum&#x2F;all&#x2F;2021&#x2F;07&#x2F;15&#x2F;privacy_costs_money&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;forums.theregister.com&#x2F;forum&#x2F;all&#x2F;2021&#x2F;07&#x2F;15&#x2F;privacy_...</a><p>It&#x27;s true that &quot;privacy&quot; from &quot;tech&quot; companies is not easy and could cost money if someone tries to replace every &quot;service&quot; that tech companies purport to offer with a supposedly &quot;private&quot; version. But is that the <i>only</i> way to approach &quot;alternatives&quot;. See the comments.<p>What he is not considering is that luring users into surveillance with &quot;services&quot; (&quot;let us do that for you&quot;) is neither easy nor cheap either. Arguably tech companies spend far more time and (investor&#x27;s) money to lure users into surveillance and trying to collect ever more user data than I do to compiling and running different OS, using different software and actively managing a home network in ways that make personal UX better and tech company data collection and ad tech jobs more difficult. Plus I do not have to waste investors&#x27; money in the process or carry out instructions that require compromising ethics (&quot;gentlemen do not read each other&#x27;s mail&quot;). Thankfully, when I spend time fiddling with computers I reap the results of my own work and follow my own ethics.
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karaterobot将近 4 年前
The only service he mentions by name is Protonmail, which has a free tier, which he doesn&#x27;t mention. The pay version is about $7.50 USD a month, which is not cost prohibitive if you care about it.<p>His theory seems to be that if you have a bunch of these, they will add up. Maybe, but I can&#x27;t buy the argument without more and better examples to back it up.<p>I mean, if you had Protonmail and a $5&#x2F;mo VPN, you&#x27;d still be spending less than the cost of a standard Netflix subscription. And if you stopped subscribing to Netflix because you cared about privacy, you&#x27;d be SAVING money.<p>He does bring up a good point, which is that you need to have a certain amount of technical fluency to do this stuff. The other example he lists is the Pi-hole: does he think the cost of a $35 Raspberry Pi is what&#x27;s keeping most people from running this software? That&#x27;s not it at all: it&#x27;s the obscurity of the project, and the knowledge it takes to set it up. There are plenty of people in the world for whom $35 is a big expense, but the number of people who are prevented from using one because of the cost is very low.
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hn_throwaway_99将近 4 年前
This entire article is an oxymoron. A &quot;marker of class&quot; is something that signals to <i>other</i> people which social class you belong to. The whole point of privacy is to not signal anything to anyone.<p>Also not to mention that the biggest tracking signals companies care about are your financials: credit cards, bank accounts, etc. The largest swath of the &quot;unbanked&quot;, people who pay with cash, etc. are poor.
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freebuju将近 4 年前
While true restoring privacy has implicit costs. Maybe the author shouldn&#x27;t have explicitly mentioned money as one of them. I find costs such as &quot;paying more&quot; because you aren&#x27;t participating in the ad-tracking carousel. Opportunity costs such as opting out of referral codes&#x2F;links that save 5% on checkout etc. Cost of time, by taking the longer route to access a page in a cleaner non-tracked form. Etc.<p>Most of the tools that attempt to restore privacy are free open community-driven projects such as pi-hole. Maybe the observed distinction is a marker of class, but money isn&#x27;t nearly important in the equation for most privacy-seeking folk.
Popegaf将近 4 年前
It does? Maybe technical expertise, but money?<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;degooglisons-internet.org&#x2F;en&#x2F;alternatives&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;degooglisons-internet.org&#x2F;en&#x2F;alternatives&#x2F;</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;prism-break.org&#x2F;en&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;prism-break.org&#x2F;en&#x2F;</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.privacytools.io&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.privacytools.io&#x2F;</a><p>Those all list FLOSS alternatives to the services out there. Maybe one or two things needs self-hosting but ProtonMail now has ProtonCalendar, Tutanota is coming out with a calendar too, files can be synced with Syncthing, and so on and so forth.<p>Of course, it&#x27;s nice to donate if you have money, but it&#x27;s not mandatory and that&#x27;s better than the alternatives.<p>Don&#x27;t use Google (except maybe Android, but there are ROMs), Apple, Facebook (yes, that includes Whatsapp), Microsoft and you&#x27;re already most of the way there.
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hoseja将近 4 年前
&gt;For the very rich – Gates and Musk and Bezos and their ilk – all the money in the world can&#x27;t buy privacy.<p>There are much more billionaires and multimillionaires that are utterly invisible yet they rule over us. Only the couple that want to do publicly visible things, are.
bserge将近 4 年前
Err, you shouldn&#x27;t conflate privacy from private companies with privacy from the government.<p>The latter always was and always will be around, you can&#x27;t hide from the ultimate authority.<p>Nothing will help you, short of living completely off the grid in an RV, maybe.<p>It&#x27;s not a good thing, but governments everywhere are pushing for more surveillance and knowledge and they will get it.<p>But they also help increase privacy from private entities (at least in some countries), so there&#x27;s that.
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motohagiography将近 4 年前
Privacy isn&#x27;t dead, we&#x27;ve just made it very expensive.<p>However I&#x27;d take it a step further than the author who says it&#x27;s a signifier to say that, now, privacy <i>is</i> class. (with the cavet that class is multi-dimensional, and not a scalar hierarchy) I&#x27;ve written to the effect before that Apple&#x27;s iPhone is entry into the middle class because the values encoded in its aesthetics and features separate you from being a worker to being a &quot;creative.&quot; This was the vision Jobs sold - that you too could become a sophisticated beturtlenecked urbane architect designer offering valuable insights and observations if you bought this product. The iPhone and its (excellent) privacy and security features elevate you from the problems of office stiffs unsticking printer jams to a world where you don&#x27;t have to think about that stuff and can focus on your beautiful thoughts without needing to struggle. &quot;It just works.&quot; - so you don&#x27;t have to. Sure it&#x27;s expensive, but nobody who has one notices. In a microcosm, that&#x27;s what class difference can feel like. That is, wealth is what you have, but class is what you don&#x27;t need.<p>Having privacy means you don&#x27;t have to spend effort to manage your public persona. The (S)mart people I know do engage social media just enough to be unremarkable, but no more.<p>I&#x27;m not that smart, though my own approach to privacy has not been strong anonymity with opsec either, because the effort to live in-effect as a fugitive just elevates your percieved antagonists to an equal, or in the case of state actors, elevates ourselves to imagining ourselves as super villain threats.<p>Privacy to me now means actively choosing how to relate to technology and people, with a sense of a personal perimeter of calm that I value, and maintaining personal privacy means I can have things that are mine to share, and that creates value for others. With that in mind, you can just set a low bar and costs to keep out of the way of dragnets and spam.<p>To have had the knowledge that privacy was an issue at all has meant both having a sense of (often, ridiculous) self importance that I was no mere &quot;user,&quot; and spending a great deal of time understanding technology, at a time when access to it was more rare. So from the outside, privacy looks like a class signal. From the inside, privacy is the necessary condition to bring intentional value to relationships, and the people who would take it from you are basically petty thieves - a fact of life in any human environment.<p>Sure, the Zucks, Jacks, Sundars and NSA&#x27;s of the world get my information and stuff, but their problems are things I just do not have.
dzink将近 4 年前
The best situation to be in is wealthy when nobody knows about it. The latter requires privacy. Those those who seek privacy carry a signal as a result.
marapuru将近 4 年前
Before the internet was filled with tracking things there were plenty of online services. And you paid for that. Initial mail services cost money, but we seem to have forgotten that. And now we put that pricetag on privacy?<p>No. Running a service costs money. Everything you get for free is just an unseen loan that you have to repay eventually.
loudtieblahblah将近 4 年前
making my email more secure (protonmail), my calendar&#x2F;contacts more secure (Etesync - which is better than what ProtonMail offers), making my hosted notes secure (StandardNotes - free but i pay for an organizational extension that i can&#x27;t live without), all costs money. Most people aren&#x27;t going to pay this even though all these services costs me like $17&#x2F;month total. These three services together are more expensive than Netflix.
pc86将近 4 年前
Am I the only one that has a problem with &quot;authorities&quot; using your credit card receipts to decide to force you into quarantine?
ngcc_hk将近 4 年前
What is class to do what this? Is it a value use of the phrase?<p>What is legitimate access and what is not? If life in a real pandemic or in non-pandemic vs in totalitarian state where your social credit by government and your liberty or none is by government … there are difference in kind.<p>Such confused idea ultimately lead to the collapse of the west liberty and the raise of the east totalitarianism. Continue your confusion ba … you will ruin your life and your civilization.