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The Generational Divide in Software Developers

156 点作者 daverol将近 4 年前

32 条评论

gilbetron将近 4 年前
This is an awful article that does not articulate the vast majority of past software development. I&#x27;m largely of the same era as the author, becoming a paid software developer (as a teenager) in 1986. The vast majority of software development was bloated and slow and largely horrible. The waterfall method ruled the world, and projects struggled to complete even though they weren&#x27;t anywhere near the complexity of today&#x27;s projects.<p>Responding to some of the points from the article:<p>* Insulating developers from interruptions was management’s Prime Directive.<p>Not even remotely, that concept didn&#x27;t exist until the 2000s. The managers job was to micromanage those under them and people had to create ridiculous estimates and then put in crunch time to try to meet them. Management processes were based on managing manual labor. It was, in all ways, a horrible era.<p>* Projects were planned and designed. We had documents we were expected to read.<p>Sure, there were all kinds of docs that were incorrect, poorly thought out, and just plain wrong.<p>* Code is illegible.<p>The &quot;golden days&quot; were not golden. Code is far more legible now. &quot;it was hard to write, it should be hard to read&quot; was the predominant mantra of the 90s. Code these days is generally reasonably legible and clean.<p>The only aspects about the article that do ring true are some of the comments about testing - we did do testing and QA is great at least for complex domains.<p>This article is about 90% old man yells at cloud, and this coming from an old man ;)
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irrational将近 4 年前
I work for a Fortune 500 company. Through a strange set of circumstances I ended up as a developer embedded in a business unit for 18 years. It was very much like the “then” described in the article. No ceremonial meetings, no sprints, given offices with doors, etc. Then the company decided to consolidate all tech people. For the past 2 years I’ve had an IT manager. I am absolutely astounded how much time is wasted in the modern IT world. Ceremonial meetings, recurring meetings, sprints, etc. I’d say I’m 10% as effective as before. I seriously have weeks were I spend a single hour writing code. And the IT managers are perfectly okay with this! It blows my mind how utterly inefficient they have managed to make coding and the results are definitely not any better. Oh, and the QA thing. Anyone that thinks test driven development can replace a dedicated QA person, clearly has no business working in the world of software development. But, I’ve found that I can’t actually say any of this out loud at work. The IT managers are so brainwashed that they can’t see the reality of what is going on. I’m convinced all of this is for the purpose of giving IT managers something to do to justify their existence.
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nostrademons将近 4 年前
I&#x27;d say that the really huge generational divide is the supply-chainification of software development. I&#x27;m just barely old enough to remember the days when a software engineer was responsible for everything between the hardware and the UX. You wrote code that implemented algorithms and data structures; and made choices between what would be computed in CPU, stored in RAM, or paged to disk; and worked on the whole program from the network or disk layer up to the UI.<p>Now all of these are different roles. You have backend engineers and data engineers and data scientists and front-end engineers (who only deal with modern Javascript and its dozens of frameworks - even 10 years ago a front-end engineer was expected to know how a webserver and HTTP worked) and mobile engineers and AWS experts and Docker&#x2F;Kubernetes experts to orchestrate it all. If you&#x27;re actually responsible for the whole program, that&#x27;s an architect or tech lead role and you don&#x27;t actually write a whole lot of code. The jobs of each of the people who <i>do</i> write code largely consists of gluing together existing industry-standard frameworks. Algorithms and data structures are stuff you solve on a whiteboard to get the job, and then you never use them once you have the job.<p>It&#x27;s the natural evolution of an industry, but it does make the job a lot less interesting. The observations the author makes are a natural outgrowth of this - when you have a lot of separate roles collaborating to build a program rather than a single person designing the whole thing, you need a lot more meetings and e-mails and testing.
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pcmoney将近 4 年前
I think we would all want our own offices and some peace and quiet. Also the Agile industrial complex is a bunch of charlatans. Real agile is a good set of guidelines. Aside from that this article seems off the mark and self contradictory.<p>1. How would a change be up in an hour if it required QA? 2. How is code review important but pair programming bad? 3. How is designing systems to be testable easily a bad idea? (I understand TDD is more than just this but it also implies this) 4. How does he reconcile his thesis with the explosion of Billion and Trillion dollar companies who embrace the practices he opposes. Clearly it can work. 5. Many of his practices are great for a Sr dev. But how do you level up Jrs? 6. The knock on Googling and SO seems off. Sorry for using some of the best tech ever made for dev productivity? Sorry we don’t solder our own chips? Sorry Googles top engineers built that mostly through pair programming? (Jeff and Sanjay). 7. Must be nice to just rage quit at the slightest annoyance. I am sure he is real nice to work with and discuss architecture with too. Also explains his disdain for the social aspect.
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allenu将近 4 年前
As someone who&#x27;s been working in the industry about 20 years now, I agree with some of the points. I don&#x27;t agree with the attitude toward testing.<p>I worked at Microsoft for about 12 years and when I joined I was an SDET (sort of a dev who does testing). I honestly found it strange that there was a separate role to test code that was written. It just seemed so wasteful. There were strict &quot;QA testers&quot; as well, but they worked with the finished product as opposed to writing code that tested other code.<p>When I finally switched to the dev role at the company, I would routinely see other devs writing code and throwing it over the fence to be tested. Testers would find an issue and then throw it back. Many of these bugs were such obvious things that could go wrong to me that it was clear the developer didn&#x27;t take 5 minutes to try scenarios other than the happy path.<p>I do think you can go too far with TDD and unit tests and that often they are more trouble than they&#x27;re worth to set up and do prevent you from moving more quickly. Often, you don&#x27;t know your problem space well enough to start planning your tests. However, it&#x27;s a very old school attitude to think that you can just rely on QA to do testing for you. It may have worked in the past, but only products took longer to release and there was a smaller audience for what you did.
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thinkharderdev将近 4 年前
Obviously this post is hyperbolic to make a point and I think I agree with some of it. But one thing that I think is a straw man is saying that &quot;Developers are their own testers&quot; which I think is profoundly missing the point of modern software testing. It&#x27;s not that you should just &quot;test your own code&quot; and toss it in production, it&#x27;s that testing is part of the software development process and &quot;developers&quot; should be full participants in everything from designing&#x2F;developing code to testing it. And that means, yes when you develop a new feature you also need to deliver automated tests for that feature and not just throw it over the wall to &quot;QA&quot; to test it.
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discordance将近 4 年前
Testing is important, regardless of the era you develop software in. Focus is also important, even these days.<p>This guy worked at Microsoft in 90&#x27;s - 00&#x27;s, and claims that it&#x27;s the lack of concentration these days that leads to buggy code. I&#x27;ve used a lot of MS stuff in the last 30 years and there were many bugs and instabilities.<p>One of the most brilliant things I use these days is our CI&#x2F;CD pipelines, which has enabled many individuals to collaborate, and deploy (mostly) reliable code to production frequently, daily if not hourly. Tests are critical in enabling this.<p>Perhaps the poster&#x27;s views make more sense for waterfall-ish, once every 6 monthly or yearly releases.
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js8将近 4 年前
When I started as SWE, I was (more or less by accident) educated in the old way. And I, like the OP, don&#x27;t like the new way. I think the article is spot on in the factual, although of course it is biased in preference and author makes that clear. (And it pains me that people in the discussion are not really hearing the nuance, just like youngsters often don&#x27;t listen to the older generation.)<p>I have a brilliant coworker, who enjoys the new way, and we disagree a lot, and I think the article summarizes our disagreement very well.<p>Ultimately, I think the divide comes down to your optimization horizon. In the old days, software was made to last longer, and there was more time to plan and design it properly, because the horizon was longer. Today, the horizon has been shortened, and more experimentation is done, and less forward thinking. And so the methods are different, and most of these differences (as described in the article) accounts to the shortening of the optimization horizon.<p>I do prefer longer horizon, because I feel that if you have series of short horizons, you&#x27;re not optimizing as well as you could, and spend too much time rebuilding stuff in an incoherent architecture. But the business seems to prefer the short horizon, for various reasons (one might be simply competition, the red queen effect of sorts). I think from an engineering perspective, this is a mistake (there is a reason why we don&#x27;t build houses in &quot;agile&quot; way), but I came to recognize that neither side is actually &quot;right&quot;.<p>But I am going to appeal, if you are trying to build software that lasts, think about your time horizon, maybe you will find that you can actually use the past approach better, if your horizon is longer.
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sblom将近 4 年前
This essay is rooted in nostalgia and reads as a post facto justification for &quot;I like the old way better&quot;.<p>&quot;I&#x27;ve never done waterfall&quot; or &quot;we specified everything (on paper! millennials don&#x27;t read amirite) before we built it&quot;, which is it?<p>There&#x27;s a whole lot of generalizing from personal experience to &quot;universal truths&quot; that simply aren&#x27;t universal. or even truths? For instance, there are certainly some teams that get value out of code reviews.
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dave333将近 4 年前
It&#x27;s ironic that my first paid job at Racal in the UK working on computer aided design software in assembler running on shared fridge sized minicomputers with 64K RAM got many SW development truisms right. Desks all in one large room with collaborators (we didn&#x27;t know this word yet) next to each other for easy questions&#x2F;conversation when needed. Room was quiet at all times so no problem getting into the flow. Tea break mid morning and afternoon when the tea lady wheeled a cart round with a big tea URN (sweet and slightly milky no options) and various candy&#x2F;sweets cookies&#x2F;biscuits or chips&#x2F;crisps. We would all get up from our desks and line up near the URN and chat&#x2F;collaborate similarly to how people do at water coolers I understand. Lunch in the company cafeteria or out at a local pub if there was some event. More collaboration. After lunch we usually all (most of us) played the board game Diplomacy at one move per day. This is the perfect team building tool. What could be a better way to get to know each other than by building alliances to go to war with your comrades and&#x2F;or stabbing them in the back? No external frameworks - most of the senior folks would create a few common functions or have some from previous projects that could be shared. It was all downhill from there.
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ddek将近 4 年前
I have a few questions for people who largely agree with this article.<p>Firstly, where do you stand on developers having input into the design process? From my experience, developer input in specification has led to better fitting solutions. Personally, I wouldn&#x27;t like to be in a situation where I am instructed what to do, that sounds extremely tedious.<p>If you agree that developers should have some contribution to the design process, then two points in this post are in conflict. Either the developer must be interrupted to participate in synchronous design decisions, or participate asynchronously on a much-maligned platform like Jira (better alternatives available). Is there another way?
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corpMaverick将近 4 年前
As a practicing software engineer for more than 30 years. My pet peeves are in the opposite direction. We lost some of the XP wisdom.<p>- Teams do CI&#x2F;CD but most teams don&#x27;t do Continuous Integration (sync and merge daily or more). And they hardly understand why CI is important since that is how they have work for ever.<p>- &quot;Do The Simplest Thing That Could Possibly Work&quot; has been forgotten. People add a lot of complexity that is not really adding a lot of value (See YAGNI)<p>- Agile were supposed to re-capture the power and give it to the developers. That didn&#x27;t happen. There is a lot of emphasis on the process but little on the principles.
hdjjhhvvhga将近 4 年前
As any rant it needs to be taken with a grain of salt. This one, however, is very true:<p>&gt; I and everyone I have ever talked to about testing has had the same experience; we write a new feature, test the hell out of it, can’t find anything wrong; ask a coworker to take a crack at it, and he finds a major bug in under a minute. The password is blind spots, and we all have them. And if we didn’t think of some case in development, we are not going to think of it in testing. That’s why we had separate QA departments.<p>I wouldn&#x27;t go as far as the author saying TTD is useless as it&#x27;s genuinely useful against most obvious bugs, but it&#x27;s only a a part of the equation. But it&#x27;s not like all companies removed their QA departments either - many pieces of software are regularly tested by independent teams with good results. If someone thinks TTD will eliminate all bugs, well, they&#x27;re not thinking clearly.
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leethomas将近 4 年前
Could someone of the appropriate age group with experience please confirm for me if everything this guy is saying was true generally speaking?<p>I’m honestly curious as I’m too young to know myself and I have no way of knowing whether the article was written with rose tinted glasses on.<p>But wow if it’s accurate the point about meetings and concentration sounds amazing, would love to go back to that.
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MrDresden将近 4 年前
I would be in the younger category, as I&#x27;ve only been in the industry for little over a decade.<p>I do though fully agree with many of the points in the article, and desperately wished we could actually change the corporate culture around SW development.<p>However I&#x27;ve come to the conclusion, after years of trying, that it simply can&#x27;t be done. At least not in companies that have reached a certain size.<p>The &#x27;agile&#x27; managerial mantra, along with all of the other bad practices that usually accompany it at cargo cult workplaces (managers that constantly work on &#x27;optimizing&#x27; procedures and creating &#x27;effective&#x27; teams, too many too long meetings, excessive documentation, lack of space to think and ponder, lack of private silent spaces, etc), is simply too entranched in the manager layer and company culture at these places to ever change.<p>The only times I&#x27;ve had the option of silent uninterupted deep work (i.e flow) has been when working at startups that were started and run by other SWD&#x27;s who knew what worked and what doesn&#x27;t.<p>And regarding this point:<p>&quot;Instead of distributing projects between “teams” (sorry, that word makes me think of sports, we were “groups” back then)...&quot;<p>I believe this is done exactly to make it feel we are like a sports team competing with other teams for a price. It makes it much easier to sell layoffs to the rest of the team when they happen (&quot;we had to let Steffany go, she just wasn&#x27;t an &#x27;effective&#x27; &#x27;team&#x27; player&quot;)<p>Edit: I will add that there are many good points in the agile manifesto that I belive would make sense if done correctly. The market place of &#x27;agile&#x27; consultance has simply twisted it into a unrecognizable mess and so the corporate culture trying to implement it falls horribly short (and in the wrong direction) of doing so correctly
ram_rar将近 4 年前
&gt;Older developers miss being able to focus; younger ones think focus is antisocial<p>I wonder how many devs can code for more than a hr without being connected to the internet. I had the pleasure to talk to some industry veterans who have been coding for more than 4 decades. It amazes me to see how they could code without constantly &quot;needing&quot; to be connected online and actually build stuff just by reading through reference docs and man pages.<p>Atleast in my line or work (web dev), lately software dev has become more of team sport where one constantly glues things together and searches online in stackoverflow, github etc to look for answers or raise bugs with downstream projects. Dev itself seems to have become more Operations ish.
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neilv将近 4 年前
There&#x27;s a lot of truth in this article, and (in the marketplace of ideas) it confronts a lot of recent popular thinking that&#x27;s been maybe a bit too echo chamber-y.<p>It&#x27;s too bad it was posted on HN over the weekend (and looks like it might&#x27;ve fallen off the front page pretty quickly), but maybe it will get a second chance in HN primetime.
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ckolkey将近 4 年前
It strikes me as odd that in one breath he says &quot;Learning was part of the job&quot; and spends nearly the rest of the piece complaining about writing tests. Maybe he could learn how to do it better :)
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analog31将近 4 年前
Granted, I work on the hardware side of things, at an architect level, and my only programming work is supporting my own short term needs. On hardware projects, &quot;we develop it, you test it&quot; is a huge problem, because testing invariably becomes a bottleneck, and is deferred until dangerously late in the development process.<p>Tested subsystems are substantially more valuable than untested ones. In my own IC work, related to my specific area of domain knowledge, I do not submit untested designs. Everything I design comes with a test process, which usually involves code that I write myself. My designs rarely come back to me. For this reason, I support TDD in principle, though I haven&#x27;t learned enough about it to be great at it.<p>&quot;Don&#x27;t interrupt the programmers&quot; is a problem because they end up becoming isolated from the rest of the team, and have to work twice as hard to catch up when the hardware design gets thrown over the wall for them to deal with. The people who can handle interruptions become by default the ones who participate in the critical technical decisions.
zwieback将近 4 年前
I wrote SW back then and cannot confirm what he&#x27;s saying, must be his personal experience. Some good points if you don&#x27;t take him literally.<p>Also, what the article doesn&#x27;t take into account is that the hardware, SW tooling (and its cost) and, most importantly, SW distribution methods have changed radically.<p>Lack of uninterrupted focus is the only really valid point, in my opinion.
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josephferano将近 4 年前
I was very surprised when I read the part about pair programming. Am I the only one who finds pair programming to be highly productive? I find that when someone is sitting next to me or watching me screen-cast and I&#x27;m explaining out-loud my thought process, my ability to focus and zone in goes through the roof. A human rubber ducky, if you want.<p>I will grant the possibility that I have bad habits when it comes to work and I get easily distracted when I&#x27;m programming by myself. Having someone there effectively mitigates this and the lifestyle choices that negatively impact my ability to focus for long periods of times. So perhaps there&#x27;s an untapped flow state that is even better than pair programming.<p>While I figure this out for myself, I still can&#x27;t deny the fact that the last few times I&#x27;ve truly been in the zone have been with someone looking at&#x2F;hearing me code.
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plandis将近 4 年前
I don&#x27;t buy the authors testing argument for a couple of reasons:<p>1. Verification is automated - From my perspective, tests predominantly serve to document AND verify the behavior of code. You don&#x27;t have to follow TDD to buy into the idea that tests serve to verify behavior of the code that was written. Some applies to formal verification of software.<p>2. Documentation stays in sync with tests - I&#x27;d imagine that any snippet of code is read 2-10x more than it ever changes and tests help with that reading process. Writing tests means you&#x27;re optimizing for the thing that happens most often AND you are somewhat guaranteed that your testing &quot;documentation&quot; stays up-to-date because as software evolves the tests will need to evolve as well there is an immediate penalty for not updating the tests; there is no corresponding immediate penalty for forgetting to update a specification document. The older a piece of software is the harder it will become to understand: the original developers stop working on it, the documentation becomes stale, context and initial reasoning for certain decisions is lost. In such an environment it&#x27;s, in my experience, generally easier to make changes to old code bases with lots of testing because generally tests will tell you if there is something you don&#x27;t understand with nearly instantaneous feedback: write some code, run the tests and it either works or it doesn&#x27;t.<p>Similarly, I don&#x27;t get the authors argument that code is more illegible than it has been in the past. More modern languages make this as easy as possible to get correct. Take something like Flask [1] written in Python and generally considered to be well-written and compare that to the C code in SQLite [2] which is generally considered to be well-written C and tell me which is easier to understand without any prior knowledge.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;pallets&#x2F;flask" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;pallets&#x2F;flask</a> [2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;sqlite&#x2F;sqlite" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;sqlite&#x2F;sqlite</a>
_y5hn将近 4 年前
Building software for the one developer vs building software for the company and customers (<i>company first</i> because they will support the customers).<p>What went wrong with agility is that it turned into Agile, a concept sold by consultants to be co-opted by management. We should absolutely stop coining the phrase &quot;team&quot; though. Everything about it and the rituals are only for enforcing control and disrupting creative work. The &quot;sports&quot; metaphors are only avenues of manipulation and abuse. Sadly it works best on the youngest generation.<p>The old way where a few devs could hold entire companies hostage is over forever though. Nothing wrong with pairing and teaching others. But it is work, work both the new way and the old way is very adverse to do.
BoredomHeights将近 4 年前
A lot of things in the article I think most younger software engineers would agree with (I&#x27;m mid 30s for context, so around where he seemingly put the divide, definitely not an OG). Almost everyone I&#x27;ve ever met wants less meetings and more time to focus&#x2F;code. I understand if this may be something that has changed over time but I definitely don&#x27;t think it&#x27;s something younger engineers want, even if they do have to deal with it. If anything I think they&#x27;d relate most since they&#x27;ve always had to get their work done with less time to actually focus. I also hate the idea of daily check ins&#x2F;standups and don&#x27;t like two week sprints, but we don&#x27;t do either of those and I haven&#x27;t at previous companies.<p>Other things mentioned I just don&#x27;t think are actually true about modern software development, although possibly it depends on your company. I&#x27;ve worked mostly in FAANG companies and we absolutely spend a ton of time on design. And I think this is where collaboration, team cohesion, etc. is so important. The design phase is where you need that communication, then you ideally separate and focus on your own work solo. Then maybe get some review etc. (though like he mentioned, I agree code reviews themselves are relatively pointless, I haven&#x27;t done one since working at a smaller company). But during the design and somewhat ongoing it can be extremely helpful to know what partner teams and engineers are working on (though daily updates absolutely are not needed).<p>My biggest takeaway from the article is that he really, <i>really</i>, hates writing unit tests. I see pros and cons for both approaches honestly. As a software developer I would love someone else (dedicated QA) to handle a lot of this for me. I don&#x27;t know if that&#x27;s necessarily actually better from a company perspective though (not saying it&#x27;s not either). It definitely makes scaling tougher for very large companies. Who&#x27;s QA on a 3 person team (or &quot;group&quot;) for example, does every team need dedicated QA? When is it worth having? Obviously that&#x27;s something that can potentially be solved, but it&#x27;s not necessarily easier or worth it. My experience though is that at best it&#x27;s extremely exaggerated to state that unit tests are the main focus these days. In total I maybe spend two weeks a year writing tests, if that.<p>As for documentation and learning on the job my experience also doesn&#x27;t stack up, and this is maybe the part I feel like the article comes closest to &quot;old man yells at cloud&quot;. You are absolutely expected to constantly be learning and improving on the job and you better have read all relevant documentation. The first thing that happens on any team I join is I&#x27;m given pages and pages of documentation to go through. I spend most of my early time on teams literally studying it and taking notes. I think a lot of the &quot;back in my day&quot; quotes in regards to these topics are some of the most out of touch in this article. &quot;We didn&#x27;t have stack overflow so we had to...&quot; So what? Stack Overflow exists now, people adjust. It can also be a learning tool in and of itself.<p>Overall I think some of the major points may be true (though as mentioned I don&#x27;t necessarily think younger engineers would actually disagree with those points). I&#x27;ve never worked at Microsoft specifically so can&#x27;t say what it&#x27;s like there, maybe a lot of this is more accurate. I don&#x27;t think I read very much that I think actually shows a divide between software developers of each generation though, other than speculation that younger developers can&#x27;t concentrate.
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oneplane将近 4 年前
Devil&#x27;s advocate: the difference between then and now is also in the visibility and metrics. If you have some black-box &#x27;software coder&#x27; in an office that might pump out an artifact six times per year, do you really have any clue what is going on, what you are paying them for or how it stacks up against others, other tasks, other jobs, other features or other investments? And what if you need a feature now, and in a few weeks you need a different feature? What if there is a customer demand that changes, do you just continue building the &#x27;old&#x27; request that is now worthless on delivery?
metalforever将近 4 年前
This article has explained coherently and concisely everything I have been feeling.
cotelletta将近 4 年前
The real generational divide is people who feel this post in their bones and people who will nitpick at it because it&#x27;s not in fact an unbiased survey.<p>The point about focus is very true. The socialization of development via online tools means people think sticking their nose in other people&#x27;s code is a virtue instead of a bother. If you&#x27;re not going to contribute, why are you interrupting me?
asciimov将近 4 年前
&gt; I found it to be ghastly, sitting closer to a coworker I detested than I lay next to my own spouse in bed. I could smell him.<p>The only thing worse than working in an open office environment is having to sit next to someone who stopped showering and regularly smokes.<p>Smokers&#x2F;Alcoholics&#x2F;drug users&#x2F;the unwashed are the worst, followed closely by people that wear heavy musky scents.
jdlshore将近 4 年前
This is a polemic against Extreme Programming that could have been written 15 years ago (and been just as wrong-headed then). And was. Many times.
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davesmylie将近 4 年前
Back in my day, we&#x27;d write our webpages such that they would load on mobile with requiring the user to enable javascript... And we liked it that way!
eplanit将近 4 年前
I can&#x27;t upvote this article enough times -- it&#x27;s concise yet rich with astute observations.<p>Just one example: &quot;Thirty Years Ago...Insulating developers from interruptions was management’s Prime Directive.&quot;<p>From my own experience, when I started at IBM in the mid 1980s, we had private offices just for this very reason. Me and my colleagues also recognized, though, that we were on the tail-end of those good ol&#x27; days. By the early 1990s &quot;bullpens&quot; were becoming the rage, and the rest is history.<p>Another, &quot;QA was other people&quot;: it was other people, and not the can&#x27;t-make-it, under-performers, either. Testing was a discipline in and of itself, with very experienced testers. They were often older programmers in their last 5-10 years which knew what kinds of corners and edges to think of. That, too, was a just a fond memory by the early &#x27;90s.
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justicezyx将近 4 年前
I cannot endorse this article, full of personal experience that were never true in Amazon or Google.<p>Particularly it&#x27;s the testing done by other people and the unit testing. Testing people are certainly needed in many cases, but the article gave no reason why it has to be done by other people. Just because devs spent a lot of time working with tester, and they enjoy that time, does not make that way of testing the better choice. I worked with tester in Google, absolutely the most unproductive organization inside Google. All normal places have conducted their own testing before releasing to customers, internally most (had no experience working on consumer products).<p>Edit:<p>&gt; Sounds like you had a bad tester. Opposite of my experience. A good tester is a gift from the Heavens.<p>This sounds like just a statement without backup.
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