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Afghanistan Meant Nothing: A Veteran Reflects on 20 Wasted Years

81 点作者 Clewza313将近 4 年前

20 条评论

danielschonfeld将近 4 年前
It never means a damn thing. It’s always the same story book for the US. And each time you have a fresh batch of recruits from the poorest neighborhoods of every major city ready to “fight for our freedom” and be discarded after like we discarded the Afghans, the Vietnamese etc…<p>All for the sake of lining the pockets of some billionaires, companies and politicians. Politicians who stays there for 40 years and tell us they’re fighting for us and this time will be different.
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igammarays将近 4 年前
&gt; I know how bad the Taliban is. I know what they do to women and little boys.<p>Someone who was on the ground there should know better than to confuse the Taliban with irreligious tribal warlords. The Taliban completely banned the old Afghan practice of &quot;bucha bazi&quot; or pedophilia. They hang pedophiles, they do not &quot;do things to little boys&quot;. Of course, things may have happened in the fog of war, but the official Taliban policy - and they do have a policy - they are organized and disciplined, as the author admitted - is to punish pedophilia.<p>&gt; We called them Hajjis and worse and they were better than we were, braver and stronger and smarter.<p>That is why they won. They are a strong and proud and incredibly resilient people that represent the Afghan majority and deserve to have sovereignty over their own country.
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throwawaycities将近 4 年前
Reading these comments it is wild how few people understand the US political and military objectives in Afghanistan.<p>Few understand that the Taliban while mostly all the things we associate with a terror group, it was also a successful political party that began taking power through democratic elections, this was actually in the Clinton years (Taliban founded in 1994). Since then the military wanted to intervene, but Clinton ignored it because the embarrassing failure in Mogadishu (the Black Hawk Down incident in 1993) and reluctance to suffer another failed military campaign in his first term.<p>When Bush took office he was surprisingly intent on use of force in Afghanistan against the Taliban, but it was politically and legally non-viable…then 9&#x2F;11 happened and the administration had the pretext it needed, it just had to move quick before anyone could question the relationship between Taliban and 9&#x2F;11. But in either case the US intelligence was always ready and willing to say that OBL was operating remotely from the Hindu Kush in Afghanistan as a legal justification to use armed force in Afghanistan against a non state actor because the state was failing to bring him to justice.<p>Whether you are for or against the US spreading democracy around the world and their willingness to use armed force to achieve its ends…Afghanistan was not about spreading democracy, rather Afghanistan was about the US not approving of a particular democratically elected party.<p>Of course there is a much deeper history of US funding&#x2F;training of groups to fight soviets in the 70’s in Afghanistan and these groups ultimately lead to the foundation of Taliban, but for the most part it has little to do with the US use of military force in Afghanistan post 9&#x2F;11.
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roenxi将近 4 年前
The gut-wrenching horror here is the people involved in the decision making from the start probably foresaw this outcome, and <i>everyone</i> involved after about 5 years must have known what was going on.<p>Honestly, this should be enough to soft-ban anyone who was in the US Congress in the last 20 years from running again. It is quite hard to describe the scale of this disaster without seeming wild-eyed.
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hirako2000将近 4 年前
Was there really anything good to expect from the intervention anyway?<p>Invade a country, throw bombs, and try to control the population, all you get is a bigger mess than they were in to begin with. All these countries have nothing to do in there, they aren&#x27;t welcome and only trigger more hate towards the west at large.<p>Congress approved a lengthy occupation costing over 2 trillion dollars on tax payers money, all to feed an industry that murders and benefits a small number of crooks.<p>Democracy at its best.
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pmorici将近 4 年前
I’m going to leave this link because it seems like people are unaware of the events of the past several years. This is basically the outcome that was negotiated with the Taliban unilaterally without the involvement of the Afghan government.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.npr.org&#x2F;2021&#x2F;03&#x2F;04&#x2F;973604904&#x2F;trumps-deal-to-end-war-in-afghanistan-leaves-biden-with-a-terrible-situation" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.npr.org&#x2F;2021&#x2F;03&#x2F;04&#x2F;973604904&#x2F;trumps-deal-to-end-...</a>
retSava将近 4 年前
I love this interview with a Vietnam veteran regarding his experiences deploying to Vietnam: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=tixOyiR8B-8" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=tixOyiR8B-8</a>
hendry将近 4 年前
I was naive enough to visit the region in 2004 and I wrote to my MP back in 2006 not to get involved <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;natalian.org&#x2F;2006&#x2F;08&#x2F;01&#x2F;british-forces-in-afghanistan&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;natalian.org&#x2F;2006&#x2F;08&#x2F;01&#x2F;british-forces-in-afghanista...</a><p>Entirely predictable and I wanted to say that the Taliban misogyny is bit unfair. Offer free quality education for their sons and daughters and you&#x27;ll see real change, I promise you.<p>Not like this <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bbc.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;uk-58219114" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bbc.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;uk-58219114</a>
INTPenis将近 4 年前
So how do we remember this time? And make sure it doesn&#x27;t repeat itself. In the age of information, what can we do?
bsenftner将近 4 年前
Defense contractors got paid, that&#x27;s all that matters in the United States. The military support industry owns the entire country. We will never see a Pentagon audit, nor any meaningful scrutiny of the U.S&#x27;s military spending, ever. It sounds so conspiracy and implausible, but the United States is completely owned by it&#x27;s military contractors, to the degree they insure their dominance is never mentioned in public without &quot;that source is a crank&quot; labeling.
Causality1将近 4 年前
This was obvious from the outset. Afghanistan has been the graveyard of empires for hundreds of years. You can&#x27;t save a people from themselves.
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rich_sasha将近 4 年前
Possibly this was knowable ahead of time; I recommend the book “88 days to Kandahar”. Written by an ex-CIA guy, so a broker in lies and mirages (as well as, perhaps, a decent and well-meaning guy). The general feel of the book is that a long-drawn war is unwinnable, that as soon as Americans quit, Taliban will be back.<p>But this, and hindsight, aside, is there another take on this? That there was a hope in the US political circles that, although the war perhaps should not have been started, or that post 9&#x2F;11 there was no choice but to start one, but once it was going there was a hope for a better, new Afghanistan? That yea, it’s a slog, many will die and much money will be spent, but the end looks better than the start?<p>Maybe I’m naive but I’d like to think it was naive idealism that propelled the war (maybe not started) rather than outright cynical Machiavellism.<p>From today’s perspective, clearly we know the war was an expensive failure. But hindsight is everything. And the lucid impressions of a soldier on the ground may not be a complete picture.
sneak将近 4 年前
The thing that amazes me is how frequently the US engages in foreign wars, when the vast majority of the US population, even those who vote, do not want war.<p>There was a decent (but one I still disagree with) argument made once for bringing back the draft, as a way to make the actual bloody practical cost of perpetual war felt by the average person, perhaps in the hopes that they would become less frequent. Slavery is slavery though and it&#x27;s only a thought experiment.<p>Say no to war, and say it loudly. Don&#x27;t work for or with people who support or supply wars.<p>Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
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handrous将近 4 年前
Michael Flynn&#x27;s (yes, that Flynn) interview in the Afghanistan Papers is one of the more interesting accounts I&#x27;ve read of the war.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.org&#x2F;details&#x2F;theafghanistanpapers_202001" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.org&#x2F;details&#x2F;theafghanistanpapers_202001</a><p>That appears to be audio—I&#x27;ve only read the transcript, personally—but the text is hard to find a direct link to. A search can probably dredge up pages that&#x27;ll eventually lead to the text.
octopoc将近 4 年前
Public service announcement: stop voting for presidents who start wars. Here&#x27;s the pattern since Johnson in 1964:<p>- Lyndon B. Johnson escalated the Vietnam War throughout 1964 and the Gulf of Tonkin resolution was passed just before his re-election in November 1964. There&#x27;s a book, Dereliction of Duty, about how Johnson did this for the popularity it would earn him.<p>- Nixon didn&#x27;t start any wars and he was re-elected.<p>- Jimmy Carter didn&#x27;t start any wars, and the Iran hostage crisis had the opposite affect: it made him appear weak. He only served one term.<p>- Ronald Reagan got involved in Grenada and Lebanon in 1983. Both conflicts were relatively small and the U.S. withdrew pretty soon afterwards. His re-election was in November 1984.<p>- Bush Sr. started the Gulf War in January 1991. His re-election would have been in November 1992.<p>- Clinton got heavily involved in Bosnia in 1995. His re-election would have been in November 1996.<p>- Bush Jr. started the Iraq War in 2003. His re-election was in November 2004.<p>- Obama started the Libyan War in 2011. His re-election would have been in November 2012.<p>- Trump didn&#x27;t start any wars. He wasn&#x27;t re-elected, but we can be sure that he didn&#x27;t start any wars to increase his popularity, like every other two-term president since 1964 except Nixon.
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sys_64738将近 4 年前
Wasn&#x27;t the whole reason for invasion to get bin Laden?
minikites将近 4 年前
We somehow don&#x27;t have the money or resources to provide basic necessities like food and shelter for people, but there&#x27;s always money for destructive and pointless wars. We could easily choose to improve the lives of others, but instead we choose to bomb and slaughter people around the globe.
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trasz将近 4 年前
Politicians responsible for the war should be put on trial and then executed. (I’m against capital punishment, but the usual rules of law don’t really apply to this kind of crime.)<p>Sadly, the US is extremely loyal to its war criminals, so this can never happen.
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carrolldunham将近 4 年前
There&#x27;s always a stated reason for these middle east US wars, and then there&#x27;s a real reason. I can work out Iraq but what is the real reason for the Afghanistan war?
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hn8788将近 4 年前
Worst part is, it didn&#x27;t have to be a waste of time. The Bush administration half-assed it because they actually wanted to go to Iraq, and the Obama administration half-assed it because &quot;bringing the troops home&quot; was easy political points. So many lives and so much money wasted because politicians from decades ago turned Afghan society to shit because they only cared about stopping the Soviets.