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Burning out and quitting

921 点作者 czottmann超过 3 年前

60 条评论

markdjacobsen超过 3 年前
This is a powerful piece that resonates with my own experience. I went through a period of severe burnout that took me a couple years to recover from. One of my later insights was that burnout doesn&#x27;t merely entail working too much (although that&#x27;s certainly part of it); burnout often involves pouring too much of your heart and soul into something that does not love you back. I describe burnout now as a kind of &quot;unrequited love.&quot;<p>So many of us go above and beyond for our companies&#x2F;projects&#x2F;teams&#x2F;whatever. The author here describes overcommitting at work. We might have the best of intentions, but at some point, we don&#x27;t see the returns we yearned for and start to question what all this self-sacrificial giving is for. That is when burnout really sets in. I&#x27;ve had friends burn out while working for hostile or indifferent managers, startups that are trending the wrong direction, companies that engage in illegal or unethical behavior, etc.<p>A second insight was that burnout can play a positive role in our lives. It&#x27;s like a circuit breaker that trips to protect us from a damaging situation. When we feel burnout coming on, it&#x27;s a warning to pay attention to an important misalignment in our lives.
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Applejinx超过 3 年前
This person understands what actual burnout is. You get really seriously fried, like &#x27;can&#x27;t function in any sense&#x27; fried. The references to &#x27;you have to decide what we&#x27;ll watch on netflix because I literally cannot choose a thing&#x27; rang very true to me.<p>I generally needed more than a couple months but less than a year, and the removal of whatever it was that I&#x27;d burnt myself to a crisp trying to control. Over my lifetime that&#x27;s been everything from overcoming homelessness, starting a business, transitioning the business to Patreon, trying to have a relationship: it&#x27;s been a lifelong process of learning that I can&#x27;t have things (even very desirable things) just by pushing harder to earn them. Quite often I just have to give up and not have the thing.<p>The more I learn that, the less I&#x27;m riding the edge of burnout.<p>:)
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yupper32超过 3 年前
For me, I&#x27;ve started feeling like I&#x27;m close to burnout. But quitting doesn&#x27;t really seem like a helpful option.<p>Could I actually take months off recovering? No. I&#x27;d have to immediately start leetcoding and remembering what all those trees are for so that I could become employed again later on. And risk having to take a job that pays way less than before.<p>Which brings me to my main point: I don&#x27;t see an option where the work ever actually truly ends. There&#x27;s always more. Always things I need to be doing. And until I have enough to retire, I have to keep grinding.<p>Vacation doesn&#x27;t help. It just puts me farther behind.
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lolc超过 3 年前
I&#x27;ve always had slow days where I didn&#x27;t want to work. Just give a call that today is one of those days. At most places I worked this was understood and respected. The other places I didn&#x27;t work at for long.<p>Sometimes I feel stuck in the morass of legacy apps we&#x27;re looking after. Then I remind myself how things were when I started here. How we&#x27;ve invested to improve things. That I&#x27;m digging around in shit because that&#x27;s where the work is.<p>At times I just watch the blinkenlights for a while. With bits flowing and data transformed in quiet concert. Orchestrated by us to serve our fellow humans. I might even read some code that hasn&#x27;t failed in a year. Sweet comfort to know it&#x27;s there, working as intended.<p>Then I grab the shovel again with renewed urgency. Make some red commits. Get them merged.
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gilbetron超过 3 年前
A big factor for burnout, at least for me, is the never ending treadmill that is Agile. There are zillions of different things people call Agile, but the core of nearly all of them is the never ending series of Sprints (side note: I hate that the industry has settled on two week sprints, they make them so unbearable, 1 month is the best sprint, imo). I like a lot of the thing Agile thinking has brought to the toolbox, and before Agile there was a lot of horror and suffering, but what I do miss from that primordial time was when you finished a project you could stop and think and breath for a while. For a few days, even several weeks. Just stop and tinker and think about what you had just done, and what you want to do. When you actually train for running and other athletic activities, and you actually sprint, there is a recovery period where you let your body regain and recover from the effort. It improves performance and it improves your training.<p>We either need a recovery period built into Agile, or, my preference, get rid of Sprints. Actually, keep sprints around but turn them into a more fitting analogy. Infrequent periods where you focus and work harder on something. &quot;Ok, it feels like we don&#x27;t have traction on project X, let&#x27;s do a two week sprint where we push aside all other concerns, cancel all meetings, and just focus on the project.&quot;<p>Right now it feels like I haven&#x27;t had time to stop and think for 18+ months, it doesn&#x27;t help to have my family sitting in the house with me full time. No quiet periods, no reflecting periods of recovery.
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ingvul超过 3 年前
I do think I&#x27;m experiencing burn out, but I don&#x27;t see myself quitting. It&#x27;s weird.<p>I feel fine when I have to:<p>- refactor code<p>- create some new application code from scratch<p>- fix some business logic bug<p>I feel anxiety (and I experience burn out symptoms) when I have to:<p>- deal with any k8s issue<p>- incorporate any third-party library like oauth2-proxy<p>- run some migration in a big table<p>I don&#x27;t like &quot;infrastructure&quot; topics, but as a &quot;senior&quot; software engineer I don&#x27;t have a choice. I love dealing only with application code (e.g., classes, interfaces, modules, business logic, tests, etc.)
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hondo77超过 3 年前
I&#x27;ve been through burnout before. A few times. Not fun. Alas, I never had the luxury of being able to take time off (it turns out that children like eating food). So, while I can sympathize, I also can&#x27;t sympathize since I had to work through it (usually by changing employers).
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caned超过 3 年前
I&#x27;m torn between feeling that I too am dealing with some degree of burnout and thinking that I just simply haven&#x27;t been taking care of myself. A series of sluggish days leads to a pileup of work, the pile seems to grow exponentially with no end in sight, and my workplace is rather dysfunctional and lacking of a clear vision. It feels like burnout, because even if I am productive and aspects of the work are interesting, it doesn&#x27;t feel like progress is being made. Motivation goes down even when productivity is good.<p>But I&#x27;m also staying up too late. I have poor sleep hygiene. I&#x27;m on screens until well after midnight, and a significant amount of that time is spent reading &quot;news&quot; - not consciously reading to stay abreast of what&#x27;s happening in the world, but habitually clicking and clicking and clicking. I can&#x27;t really blame my job for the need to work late, because I seem to take hours to really get on a roll in the morning, and the work demands necessarily shift into the late evening after the kids go to bed. It&#x27;s a vicious cycle. I&#x27;m working, e-mailing and Slacking on weekends when I don&#x27;t need to be, and I&#x27;m not maintaining clear boundaries at all. Personal relationships are suffering as well.<p>So though I kind of relate to the burnout narrative, to really frame it as such seems like a cop-out for me. Working from home is a tremendous privilege, and doing so in a functional way requires a lot of discipline. Maybe the regular hours, commute and confines of cubicle or office walls make it a lot easier to maintain that discipline.<p>Hearing all these anecdotes compels me to try and figure this out. Somehow I don&#x27;t think taking time off will be the answer...
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PKop超过 3 年前
Reminds me of &quot;learned helplessness&quot; [0]:<p>&quot;In humans, learned helplessness is related to the concept of self-efficacy; the individual&#x27;s belief in their innate ability to achieve goals. Learned helplessness theory is the view that clinical depression and related mental illnesses may result from such real or perceived absence of control over the outcome of a situation.&quot;<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Learned_helplessness" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Learned_helplessness</a>
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WaylonKenning超过 3 年前
Like the tide slowly lapping away at your feet, the symptoms of burnout aren’t noticeable until you’re already waist deep, and then you can keep swimming, until suddenly your brain says, no thanks.<p>I think that’s the worst part, the fact that this burnout process is happening to you, and regardless of your mental ability, you can’t outwork it, or outwill it, or outwish it.<p>But personally I see it as your brain providing you a health and safety moment - there is danger in your current approach, and the circuit breaker has been tripped.
WalterSear超过 3 年前
I&#x27;m in the depths of this, have been since March (this last time).<p>I now spend most of my time fighting a pitched battle with myself, in order make baby steps in the direction of work. But, I get stuck when it&#x27;s time to actually submit a resume or contact a hiring manager. My biggest sticking point right now is preparing a convincing story for the interviewers. I&#x27;m just not ready to bullshit strangers about lofty &#x27;career goals&#x27; or how excited I am to be a part of their &#x27;company&#x27;s growth journey&#x27;.<p>Taking time off has helped, but it&#x27;s also run its course: I&#x27;ve done this so many times now, I can no longer convince myself that next job won&#x27;t lead me back here.
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schrodinger超过 3 年前
I can relate to all of these feelings, and yet I’ve got a huge feeling of guilt associated as well. I’m feeling so burned out. I have no motivation at work. I’m drinking more than I like. I often don’t feel like doing anything on my days off. I don’t have the energy to change my situation.<p>And yet I’m getting great performance reviews at work. I work remotely, of course, and quit at 3pm most days. My burnout is almost the opposite of what’s common: I feel awful that I’m being rewarded and praised for what to me is very little effort. And I’ve got handcuffs. I just got a decent retention bonus as well as a new stock grant with a 1 year cliff for total comp that rivals FAANG but SO LITTLE EFFORT.<p>I want so badly to quit. I want a few months to just reset and figure out what’s next. I’ve got the savings to. But I’m making so much money and have handcuffs until next summer that it’s insane too. So instead I continue a job that I don’t hate, but instead feel guilty in how little I accomplish, and no pride in what I do. And pin it all on a plan to quit next summer. I just hope I can make it until then.<p>Anyone relate?
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makk超过 3 年前
The author seems unaware that their problem isn’t burnout. That’s a symptom. Their problem is a failure to set boundaries. Without boundaries they’ll just hit the wall again. Over and over.
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orzig超过 3 年前
Thank you for sharing this. People&#x27;s frank discussions of burnout in posts and comments over the years have helped me recognize the two major instances of burnout I&#x27;ve had over the last few years. Recognition doesn&#x27;t let you snap out of it immediately, but it&#x27;s a really good first step.
kaycebasques超过 3 年前
Burnout was probably a factor in my decision to take a 1-year sabbatical (as of June 2020, so I&#x27;m almost 3 months in).<p>&gt; I never thought I’d take five months off, without being able to explain to a future employer what I was doing. It felt like too much.<p>I&#x27;m very specifically phrasing it as a sabbatical, to hedge against this worry. I think the general population has a vague idea that a sabbatical isn&#x27;t wasted time. In reality this is probably time for me to recover from burnout, too. But since there seems to be stigma around &quot;burnout&quot; I&#x27;m avoiding the whole topic by phrasing it as a sabbatical. I have no guilt about this because I legitimately am taking time to build those things I&#x27;ve always wanted to build, study those things that I know I should study but never had time for, and all those other life things that I know I should prioritize but can never find the time&#x2F;energy to do when I have a full-time job.<p>I did cheat a bit this month, though. I got an opportunity to do some contract work with a startup for 1-month (3 hours every day, 7 days a week). There may be an opportunity to work with them again in the coming months but for now I am definitely returning to my own projects starting in September. If you can find short-term gigs like that I&#x27;m finding that it&#x27;s a nice balance. Kinda keeps one-foot in work world and keeps my marketable skills sharp, but then I can go off and do my own thing again.<p>I&#x27;ve heard a few people say that you need more than a few weeks to recover from burnout. I think there&#x27;s a lot of wisdom to those statements. I think it takes a few months of completely disconnecting from work pressure. I doubt I&#x27;ll need a year. I&#x27;ll probably be itching to get back to a job before the year is up.<p>More on why I took a sabbatical: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;kayce.basqu.es&#x2F;sabbatical&#x2F;prologue" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;kayce.basqu.es&#x2F;sabbatical&#x2F;prologue</a><p>Week-by-week updates if you&#x27;re curious: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;kayce.basqu.es&#x2F;sabbatical" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;kayce.basqu.es&#x2F;sabbatical</a>
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keiferski超过 3 年前
<i>I’m overwhelmed by choice, and simultaneously, tired of making choices, so the solution is just to… do nothing.</i><p>One angle to burnout that I have thought about (but never seen others discuss) is what I&#x27;ll call &quot;personal narrative management.&quot; It goes like this:<p>For most of human history, people had fairly straightforward narratives that they could rely upon when going through life. You were born into a certain community, had a certain societal role, lived your life, then went to [afterlife.] The list of potential options was pretty narrow, and the list of potential futures was likewise constrained within humanly-conceivable limits.<p>In the modern era, however, this has mostly evaporated. Nation states are too large to have a single cohesive metaphysical narrative. Traditional religious structures are fracturing without much to replace them. The media continually creates and destroys potential pasts and futures, creating anxiety and never relieving it. This is easy to see if you read articles from a year or two ago; many take the form of &quot;If X happens, Y will happen, and then [horrible thing] Z will happen.&quot; Yet X never happens, was likely never <i>going to happen</i>, and in fact was mostly just a narrative created to generate clicks for ad revenue. Yet we, the readers, have been thrown through a narrative loop.<p>One approach to dealing with burnout could thus be &quot;managing your personal narrative.&quot; Remove the choices that <i>really</i> don&#x27;t make sense to you. Stop reading news stories that are opinion or projection based and just stick to descriptions of events. Make a career path that is based on <i>stuff you enjoy doing</i> and not on the predominant narrative is for a certain profession.
wonderwonder超过 3 年前
Going to be buried but I think I have been burned out for almost 3 years now. Started with working 80 &#x2F; 90 hour weeks for 6? months. After that hours got better to maybe 50&#x2F;60 hours a week for 18 months and then new job and back to 90 hour weeks for 4 months. First 2 years of that were in a terrible environment where everyone was stressed and feared being fired. I did not look for a new job because it was double the pay of my last job and I wanted to help set my family up and buy a house. I have trouble focusing on anything for longer than an hour. I have to work in heavy productivity periods of maybe 30 minutes, then I cant do anything for 2 hours. I get good reviews but the current job is pretty easy. I dont think I have really been happy in any aspect of my life for 2+ years. Which sucks, I don&#x27;t even know what happy is right now, I just exist. Wish I could take a year off and just figure it out but financially not there. Very much burned out. Need to figure out a way to essentially strip everything away to 8 hours of work a day and then just relaxing and family.
travisgriggs超过 3 年前
&gt; So many of us go above and beyond for our companies&#x2F;projects&#x2F;teams&#x2F;whatever. The author here describes overcommitting at work. We might have the best of intentions, but at some point, we don&#x27;t see the returns we yearned for and start to question what all this self-sacrificial giving is for. That is when burnout really sets in. I&#x27;ve had friends burn out while working for hostile or indifferent managers, startups that are trending the wrong direction, companies that engage in illegal or unethical behavior, etc.<p>This is me. Multiple times now. Each time I’ve joined a company, I’ve enjoyed getting to know the product and the tech. I’ve grown up to it, and then I get to a “but we could do better” point. I’m a high initiative&#x2F;gullibile&#x2F;naive person I think. And so then we “do better”. We go big(ish) and it’s awesome. I do so, because I can’t just do the 9-5 thing. I get into it. I want to put a ding in the small part of the universe that is that product. And 4 times now it’s been successful.<p>And then I wear out.<p>A big part of it is some combination of discovering the company and&#x2F;or team mates just don’t get into it like I do. So I feel disenfranchised then (as do the few other peers that have collaborated in doing cool things). And so then I’ve been fortunate to find a new opportunity each time. As I keep track of what happens, the product runs for 5-10 more years being maintained by “don’t go the extra mile, don’t really get into it, do what the PM asks for, nothing more, nothing less” developers. And ultimately, the project&#x2F;product caves. Layoffs and depressed salaries occur. Morale sucks. What was awesome and lively, like the stupid tree in that stupid giving tree book is just a sad stump surrounded by sad engineers. As I talk to these engineers, it’s never their fault. It’s always something external. They just don’t seem to realize that if you don’t keep the product thriving, it won’t keep supporting you.<p>Frankly I’m at another nexus like this again right now, and really struggling with what to do next. I’ve been shackled with both a very nice salary AND about as strong a guarantee as one can have that I can stay here doing whatever until I retire in 15-20 years. Ageism terrifies me.
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nvarsj超过 3 年前
I had my first experience with real burnout a few years ago. I took my first fully remote job at a completely dysfunctional company. It was a very frustrating experience.<p>Unfortunately, I didn&#x27;t have the luxury of taking time off like the author here. That is really the best option if you can manage it, but most people can&#x27;t.<p>In my case, I quit my job and went somewhere I knew would be a bit easier, and looked forward to the office life again. Then the pandemic hit and I ended up fully remote, yet again. So it didn&#x27;t really help at all (I really, really missed being around people). I spent a year and half basically just winging it. It&#x27;s hard to talk about because I still feel pretty ashamed about my performance. Some days were just a matter of sheer willpower to force my brain to do anything at all.<p>I am slowly coming out of it finally and feeling a lot better. Swapping projects to something more interesting helped a lot. I&#x27;m still far from 100%, but getting there.
blitz_skull超过 3 年前
I feel like I’m going to get downvoted into oblivion for this, but let me try to articulate myself in such a way as to avoid it.<p>I’ve been burnt out. Pretty bad. Basically coasted at work for 3-4 months because I couldn’t even accomplish simple tasks. I finally pinpointed some stressors that were contributing and through time off, therapy, prayer, and a new job—found myself back in the saddle.<p>I was much more cynical about burnout before I experienced it. And then I was like, “Oh damn. This is real.”<p>However, I’m still really curious about the role of tech&#x2F;software in this relatively new development in psychology.<p>Because I worked manual labor for several years before getting into tech and while I definitely had times where I was mentally not tuned in, or physically exhausted it was nothing like the actual burnout I, and so many others have experienced before.<p>It really makes me wonder what amount of burnout is simply running “the engine” (your brain?) too hot for too long?<p>These are just my musings however. Not saying burnout doesn’t exist, but I do feel like it’s not universal at all. Just my anecdata.
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FooHentai超过 3 年前
&gt;In retrospect, this might not have been a burnout.<p>I&#x27;ll venture to suggest that this was actually <i>boreout</i>. The symptoms are the same as burnout and it feels very similar while also being perplexing because you know the situation isn&#x27;t high stress. If anything the opposite - You&#x27;re not being challenged and are stuck in a purgatory of (what feels like) repetitious, pointless time wasting.<p>I&#x27;ve experienced burnout, and more recently experienced boreout, and what the author describes sounds a lot like the latter.
brailsafe超过 3 年前
Has anyone found a successful path to rebuilding after having to have taken huge gaps off, either after burning out and being fired, or deciding to take the time off to recover?<p>I&#x27;ve burnt out, not realized I was burnt out early enough, and my productivity ground to zero, leading me to be fired before I locked in the decision to quit. As such, I&#x27;ve been out of work for over a year now (for the second or third time) and have ridiculous gaps on my resume as well as just being so behind in acing online technical tests, that I don&#x27;t really see a path forward. I was recently turned down in the final technical stage for not linting my code during a HackerRank test, and after so much time investment and so many other failed interviews, it&#x27;s like hiking up a muddy mountain in the rain. Answering the question &quot;What are you most proud of from a previous project&quot; is almost laughable.
nonbirithm超过 3 年前
<i>“You decide what to watch on Netflix because I literally can’t.”</i><p>About all I&#x27;ve heard in response to suggesting ideas like these is that I&#x27;m an adult, so nobody is able to decide anything for me anymore.<p>I completely disagree. Depending on the importance of the decision, I would gladly relinquish some of my personal liberty if I absolutely needed to take my mind off of the crushing weight of choice for a while. On bad days, I&#x27;ve found myself unable to stop being stressed at constantly questioning if I&#x27;m making the wrong choices, even for the most insignificant things like sitting down and doing nothing for a few minutes.<p>Also, some of the most significant turning points in my life only came as a result of people insisting that they knew what was best for me over and over again, and if I hadn&#x27;t listened to their advice then I would be far worse off than I am now.
cbeley超过 3 年前
Wow, I have not really been keeping track, but this post made me realize I&#x27;m now almost a year into my career break (and now about four months into my road trip of mostly camping). I can&#x27;t say I ever worked extreme hours, but I definitely reached a tipping point. It&#x27;s only recently that the idea of working again and having a stable place to live is starting to sound nice&#x2F;exciting again.<p>I still have another 2.5 months planned on the road though and I&#x27;m still not sure what I want to do after. Finances have worked out much better than expected, so I kind of want to do international travel, but between covid concerns and concerns of being out of my field for so long, I&#x27;ve been a bit on the fence. On the other hand, I&#x27;m very unlikely to get rid of my apartment, downsize my belongings, and put the rest in storage ever again.
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collaborative超过 3 年前
The best antidote to burnout is to do more of what you like. Of course you first need to have a passion. Good luck if you don&#x27;t (drinking is not a passion)<p>De-prioritize whatever is boring or stressing you out and don&#x27;t feel guilty about it. It will benefit everyone
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ryandrake超过 3 年前
&gt; To vastly oversimplify, there are two kinds of people I’ve talked to about burnout - those who get it, and those who don’t.<p>As someone who miraculously has never really experienced this level of burnout in his career, this is a great reminder to empathize and always keep in mind that you never know someone else&#x27;s situation. That person you&#x27;re having a Zoom call with to talk about Q4 priorities may be one stress trigger away from a total mental breakdown. A great reason to always be kind and thoughtful in your communications with your officemates, even if nothing appears outwardly wrong. Don&#x27;t inadvertently be part of the problem.
ternaryoperator超过 3 年前
As developers, I think we&#x27;ve all had similar experiences to greater or lesser degree. But also as developers, we generally earn enough to be able to take time off.<p>This is why when I read about single mothers working multiple jobs to raise their children, my admiration and respect run very deep. They just don&#x27;t have any option to recover from burn-out.
Hippocrates超过 3 年前
This REALLY resonated with me. I know I am burnt out but hearing someone describe everything I am feeling so precisely and completely is crazy.<p>I burnt out around the same time (november) and realized at about the same time too (february). Between those stages I started to phone it in at work. I’d skip rote meetings, cancel things I didn’t feel like doing, and just not do things that I was _supposed_ to do but thought would go unnoticed. Lo and behold, I received a raise and a promotion. I feel like I am slacking but maybe the burnout is a difference in perception, or it’s relative as we’re all burning out together.
chasd00超过 3 年前
I don&#x27;t want to sound too callous but for those with families the cure for burnout is the terror of putting those that depend on you for their livelihood on the street.<p>Suggesting taking a year off work because you&#x27;re tired of your job is an incredibly privileged (to the point of offensive) thing to say.
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smolder超过 3 年前
This is pretty similar to my experience. I also left my last position in November. It was a combination of a doomed project, an unsympathetic replacement manager, the stress of isolation, and general anxiety about where my life was headed. I feel I&#x27;ve gone through some important and positive changes in terms of habits and attitude since leaving, and am ready to start something new. So far, though, no one has been willing to pick me over other candidates, despite supposedly high demand for my skills.
andrea_sdl超过 3 年前
One of the most difficult thing about burnout is that it can be quite different for each person in the way it is expressed and it&#x27;s hard to discern.<p>I was (and probably am to some extent) burnt out. The hardest thing was caused by the fact that I asked for help. Help to reduce my workload, help to have some kind of support, whatever.<p>What happened is that many if not all the people I knew always reacted with &quot;Yeah, you&#x27;ll be fine&quot;.<p>And this is because of two major things 1. I always solve problems. People expect me to do the same so when I ask for help, they don&#x27;t consider this a threat. 2. People don&#x27;t want to face pain: I was the only one in a team noticing that one of our teammates was on the edge of burnout. We don&#x27;t want to face the pain because it&#x27;s hard, because we don&#x27;t know how to fix pain easily and sometimes we also can&#x27;t fix pain.<p>In the end I decided to do something like Maya. Tell my story.<p>I documented myself for the burnout part, asked a friend that&#x27;s expert on psycology and wrote a piece to help people understand how complex this topic is. (here it is in italian, for those who care: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.linkedin.com&#x2F;pulse&#x2F;vogliamo-parlare-di-burnout-o-preferiamo-fare-finta-nulla-grassi&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.linkedin.com&#x2F;pulse&#x2F;vogliamo-parlare-di-burnout-o...</a>)<p>Result? Many people reached out and shared how much critical was this problem. We need to fix it and learn both how to see this in ourselves and in others, and how we can help them (and to me the fist key element is being able to face other people&#x27;s pain and suffer with no fear)
timwaagh超过 3 年前
I&#x27;m wishing you best of luck on your recovery. I also have a bit of unsolicited advice for those in a similar situation.<p>it&#x27;s better to pace things. If I find myself working at 1am, I know I&#x27;m acting silly. My employer won&#x27;t thank me for it either. They don&#x27;t want maximum output. They want someone who is dependable also the next morning. If your life is nothing but work you are also bound to get depressed. Your employer doesn&#x27;t want an unproductive worker so make sure to take at least an hour for yourself and eight in your bed. If seven hours of meetings are causing you not to work during business hours you should tell your manager man hours are being poured down the drain and the team is working at 10% of it&#x27;s capacity even without vacations. I never had a manager who doesn&#x27;t listen to such arguments. You will still be a somewhat disgruntled employee because if it was fun they&#x27;d have someone pay to do your work. But you won&#x27;t experience any other symptoms.
ilamont超过 3 年前
<i>Tired of 7 hours of Zoom a day</i><p>I&#x27;m amazed that anyone can take more than 3. I know some people including my own children and their teachers, were doing 4-5 hours per day, often back to back and day after day.
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tt29219811超过 3 年前
This hits home because I feel the same currently. My current work is not really challenging and I think I have a pretty easy life with a decent salary, but since a couple months ago I started feeling so tired. My work is uninteresting, I don’t feel fulfilled, I have no motivation. Worst is I stopped caring about everything. I don’t care if my performance is bad, I don’t care if progress is slow or my project suffers. I’m very detached, but I still think about work a lot.<p>Even in my private life I don’t want to do anything anymore.<p>I realized myself that I’ve been burning out a few weeks ago, but it was hard to accept because like I said, I don’t really have any crazy challenging things that eat me up. Do I “deserve” to burn out when I have an easy life and steady income during this pandemic.<p>Even harder is to bring it up with others because what’s the goal here? Do I want people to feel for me? Do I want special treatment? Will this damage my career?<p>Lots of stuff to think about.
zz865超过 3 年前
Why quit your job? I think I&#x27;ve burned out, I&#x27;m currently working like 1-2 hours a day after taking 3 weeks off, some days more some days less. This is the benefit of full time work over being a contractor&#x2F;entrepreneur etc.
soheil超过 3 年前
Just a word of caution. I think anyone after reading this could believe they&#x27;re burned out. A test I like to do to see if something is the case or not is imagine the opposite, what would I feel like if I wasn&#x27;t burned out? Would I magically be 10x more productive? Have I ever been that much more productive in my life? Would I not want to watch Netflix without an end? Would I not want to sit on the couch and read about SolarWinds for 8 hours?<p>It&#x27;s easy to walk away from articles like this being completely sure that you&#x27;re burned out.
ivan1783超过 3 年前
My experience: we were working long hours (until 2am) trying to solve problems which were unsolvable. The end goal could not be reached. Second to that, engineering is a rather thankless job. You get nearly no feedback that your work is helping someone or helping to achieve something (as opposed to say, a doctor where the feedback to your work is very direct and tangible). What I found is that burnout isn&#x27;t a particular event or a moment in time, its rather like a scale where on one side are all of the bad things in your life and on the other are all the good things. The mind can take a lot of stress, but if the scale tips too far toward the bad side the entire balance gets thrown off. It took me around two years to get out of it, but what helped was to become hyper aware of everything in my life and if it was a net positive or net negative event, commitment or activity. I tried my best to cut out all of the negative (not my job, however). I like my boss, my colleagues and I enjoy what I do. It was a temporary phase that tipped the scale in the wrong direction but we managed to regain balance in the end. Its been around 4 years since then, I&#x27;m still in the same job (with a slightly different perspective) and totally fine now. My takeaway from all of it: make sure to look at other areas of your life to find the source&#x2F;solution to your burnout. For example: sport, eating well, sleeping well, taking time to clear your mind (meditation, walking, sport, whatever works for you), social activities, activities with your partner&#x2F;spouse, family. This is of course anecdotal and worked for me, may not apply to everyone.
User23超过 3 年前
If you&#x27;re burnt out at a big company job where you have performed well up to that point for at least a few years, you may have more options than you think. You might ask for a leave of absence for a couple months. Even unpaid it&#x27;ll probably end up being financially better than the alternatives, supposing that it&#x27;s enough time for you to recover. Another option is to negotiate a separation. Don&#x27;t just quit. Approach your HR professional and explain your situation and say you&#x27;d like to discuss next steps. Oftentimes in exchange for signing a general release you can convince them to sign off on a severance package. Assuming you&#x27;re not at the director level or above, they will probably just plug some numbers into a spreadsheet and tell you a number. My understanding is that 1-2 weeks salary per year of service is pretty typical in SV at least. The advantage to this route is it keeps your employee file clean and you get a little cushion. Sometimes they&#x27;ll also agree to not contest unemployment benefits.<p>If you really truly are burnt out, your alternative is to get PIPed and canned, so only forego the above if that&#x27;s a better outcome for you. I&#x27;d advise against that route though, because it will damage your reputation and you may be ineligible for re-hire.
ppeetteerr超过 3 年前
From a manager&#x27;s perspective, I see this a lot, people who overcommit to their work, thinking that they are responsible for everything. I appreciate their efforts but that&#x27;s never expected (and anyone who does is abusing you).<p>What I expect are sustainable and realistic expectations. Losing someone because they couldn&#x27;t sustain 80+ hour work weeks is about as useful as someone who works 20 hour weeks.
stevenj超过 3 年前
I think it&#x27;s still a fairly new phenomenon where white collar work often consists of sitting in front of a computer monitor all day. Not for leisure, but for work (something you possibly don&#x27;t want to be doing to begin with).<p>For me, less screen time (for work, but also in general) and more time spent outside and&#x2F;or in the presence of people I like has really made me a happier person.
9735194超过 3 年前
I had that, turned out I had undiagnosed autism spectrum disorder (Asperger’s syndrome) and ADHD as a comorbidity. It’s a miracle I managed 20 years in software engineering.<p>Research on YouTube: Tony Atwood (Adult ASD) and Russell Barkley (ADHD). It should give you an insight into executive function issues that lead to depression &#x2F; burnout.<p>Looking back though, a lot of things now make sense.
0xbadcafebee超过 3 年前
When you go to a regional Burning Man event, or a very long and intense festival of some kind, with someone you know and care about, it&#x27;s not uncommon for that relationship to unravel and break down by the end of the festival.<p>At the beginning of 2021, I noticed that I wanted to break up with myself. I had become a shitty version of myself and I didn&#x27;t want to keep seeing me. But I&#x27;m.... Me. What the hell went wrong? What changed?<p>By working from home, most every moment might be focused on work, purely because... I now literally lived inside my workplace. The work laptop&#x27;s always there. Slack is on the phone. The same places I might relax, I also now work at. My attire has meshed. And most of the time, if I wasn&#x27;t specifically doing something non-worky, I was still in work mode. I thought a lot about work problems. And without humans in front of me to talk to, I took work stuff more personally.<p>I also stopped going to the gym, my former &quot;stress relief &#x2F; therapy&quot;, because I did not find it safe. And when I did want to relax, usually it was with food; and, hey, might as well have a glass of wine to relax too. Maybe a movie. Whoops, was that three glasses? Is it time for bed already?<p>The reasons for the Playa breakups and Pandemic Burnout are surprisingly similar. They both come down to a radical, intense change of routine for an extended period of time. You become a new person living a chaotic life. Surprise: not everyone adapts well to that!<p>But another funny thing about both breakups: they tend to magnify the tiny annoying details of your life that you got by with before. Burning out can be a good thing if you can identify the parts of your life that just weren&#x27;t working and change things for the better. But mostly you need to remember to forgive yourself and let go of what doesn&#x27;t bring you joy. We have long lives, but there&#x27;s no reward at the end of life for putting up with crap.
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markus_zhang超过 3 年前
I don&#x27;t have the option to burnout and take a year off. Unemployment is very scary for me right now. Plus I tried to grow a few programming hobbies but never went far, so I&#x27;d be really bored if I quit. I think the maximum number of days that I can do nothing is around 7.
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ahallock超过 3 年前
I remember being so driven and hungry in my early career as a programmer. I worked long hours by my own volition. Weekends and even holidays. This lasted from my first job out of college until my early 30s. I remember the end very distinctly. I was at the office, slouched in my chair, staring off. I had been through a lot of product failures, but this was different. We had just retired a product whose success came just as fast as its decline. Many people quit or were let go. A feeling came over me suddenly of giving up, completely. It was uncanny.<p>I quit two months later and took a year off. Ever since then, burnout seems to come a lot quicker if I don&#x27;t disconnect, and I don&#x27;t think I ever recovered mentally. That was the peak, I guess.
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OliverGilan超过 3 年前
I graduated University in December, a semester early, with the intention of using that second semester off for traveling. Obviously, with COVID that didn’t happen so I instead decided to move my start date up at Big Tech Co. to February.<p>Now 9 months in I feel like I’m burnt out as well. For me it’s a combination of health issues but also the response to COVID. When restrictions lifted at the start of summer and everyone I knew got vaccines I mentally prepared for the end of the storm. And for a few weeks it looked like that. The summer was fun and I got to be social again and feel like the world was going back normal. Then a trip was cancelled overseas because of the Delta variant. And now restrictions are being put back in place and it’s just not clear what’s going to happen. The idea that things may never go back to pre-covid times and that when people are confronted with the possibility of covid being here to stay many of them argue that the status quo is ideal really depresses me. I cannot live in this world where I cannot see people’s faces and work is just zoom meeting after zoom meeting. It’s not just the light at the end of the tunnel that I crave, it’s seeing the light at all that i crave. I crave knowing this will come to an end.
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howmayiannoyyou超过 3 年前
Catch22 -<p>From the quoted CNN article: &quot;...the generous pandemic-era unemployment benefits that have already ceased in multiple states will run out in September, which could affect the rate of hiring as well.&quot;<p>Part of the burnout (certainly not all, perhaps not even a majority) is the extra load working Americans are taking to offset the voluntarily unemployed.<p>Somehow, I suspect many states will extend these benefits beyond September until Congress &amp; State legislatures can enact legislation that assigns benefits to those truly in need vs. electively unemployed... if that&#x27;s even possible.
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JohnFen超过 3 年前
I&#x27;ve been struggling with serious burnout for a long while now. I know I need to do something to fix it, but I&#x27;ve been at a loss as to what.<p>Maybe quitting my job and taking 6 months off would work...
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hamburgerwah超过 3 年前
I think there is a lot of potential crossover in many of the anecdotes described in comments that correlate with clinical depression.
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nickjj超过 3 年前
To be honest normally I would comment without reading the article but I&#x27;m half way reading this and I feel like I have to ask this now before finishing it:<p>What type of job expects you to be on Zoom meetings for 7 hours a day but still do what sounds like a 40 hour &#x2F; week job in addition to that after hours?
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yohannesk超过 3 年前
What is a good definition of burn out? Or why are you burned out and not depressed? Or have anxiety?
giantg2超过 3 年前
&#x27;... but I am indeed experiencing the “exhaustion, cynicism, and loss of efficacy” that is its trademark.&#x27;<p>Well damn, I&#x27;m surprised they didn&#x27;t put my picture next to that definition.
base3超过 3 年前
Yes yes yes. Work does not love you back. Scale your love. Allocate it in appropriate increments. Sell your attention _dearly_. And remember you have a life outside of work.
acscott超过 3 年前
High performance requires high maintenance. If you are burnt out or have symptoms or even suspect, I strongly urge to get a team together to help. It&#x27;s something you have to actively watch out for (at least for some people) and actively treat. Here are two data points: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&#x2F;28119229&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&#x2F;28119229&#x2F;</a> <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&#x2F;29057125&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&#x2F;29057125&#x2F;</a>
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Invictus0超过 3 年前
I&#x27;m curious about burnout from a neurological perspective. Does anyone have any ideas on what is really going on inside the brain during burnout?
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Sophistifunk超过 3 年前
This, only it&#x27;s not my job. My job is great.
davesque超过 3 年前
This article hits hard. Especially the classification of confidants into the two categories of those who get it and those who don&#x27;t. For example, don&#x27;t mention that you&#x27;re burned out to your parents if they&#x27;re boomers. Chances are, they&#x27;ll act as though it&#x27;ll pass (also something the author mentions) or, worse, act as though you&#x27;re just being lazy. That sort of reaction can actually make a person want to off themself.
MarkLowenstein超过 3 年前
<i>And as hard as it’s going to be to hire talent, it’s going to be even harder to retain talent.</i><p>This does not square with so many organizations falling all over themselves to issue vaccine mandates. I suspect it&#x27;s not true.
vikas-kumar超过 3 年前
check
anon9001超过 3 年前
&gt; If you have the financial ability to, don’t feel like you can’t quit your job. Your sanity is worth it.<p>Alternate phrasing: If you don&#x27;t have the financial ability to stop working, you can&#x27;t quit your job. Your sanity is not worth it.<p>&gt; I needed to completely remove any feelings of pressure, or any external, and internal, obligations. “You decide what to watch on Netflix because I literally can’t.” I’ve eaten more takeout in the last few months, than the whole pandemic; I didn’t have the energy to shop for groceries, or cook. I desperately needed to enjoy things again - so I could remember what that was like - so I could get back to enjoying ‘productive’ things too. Remember that producing recovery, relaxation, or joy for yourself is still being productive.<p>There are loads of people that don&#x27;t even bother with cooking or groceries or enjoying things or having a sense of productivity. A lot of us are busy doing the capitalism because capital is the only sensible way to escape labor and any disruption would be very costly.<p>What the author considers &quot;burned out&quot;, most would consider just another day. It only becomes &quot;burnout&quot; when you&#x27;re wealthy enough to consider converting your labor time into self-care time for some months.<p>Also, taking time off is probably not even good advice. If you&#x27;ve always been miserable with the employed lifestyle, you&#x27;re probably going to be just as miserable when you are forced back to it. Maybe more so.<p>Plus you lose out on those months of earnings, which is not good because 4 months of pay now is way better than 4 months of pay in the future. Assuming, that the goal is to eventually not be forced to sell your time for money.<p>&gt; My boyfriend told me to stop working. It wasn’t work, and it was great. I was learning something. Completing something. Doing something because I wanted to do it, not because it was the next urgent thing that needed to happen. It felt like work used to feel like. That’s what I’m looking forward to again.<p>I have no idea how someone whose career path is McKinsey-&gt;Google-&gt;GitHub could possibly have a great work experience where they&#x27;re learning and building and following their personal interests because they wanted to do it and not because it was the next urgent thing to build.<p>Maybe I just really suck at working in tech, or PM jobs are way easier than engineering jobs, but everything feels very urgent for my employer while actually being a giant waste of time for me personally. I do it because of the compensation, which I invest, so eventually I won&#x27;t have to do it anymore.
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Ansil849超过 3 年前
&gt; I was recently unemployed - fortunately, by choice<p>This just comes off as the equivalent of saying:<p>&gt; I recently had to to fly somewhere - fortunately, by private jet<p>The privilege and wealth requisite to be able to do either of these things just make it unrelatable.
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