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Web3 is a stupid idea

189 点作者 gozmike超过 3 年前

31 条评论

rewtraw超过 3 年前
A large chunk of my internet experience lately has been on web3, and the experience is _wonderful_ despite it&#x27;s immaturity.<p>It&#x27;s incredible to be able to go to different websites (Zapper, Zerion, OpenSea, etc.) and simply have all my data already exist -- without needing to create an account, export&#x2F;import.<p>web3 makes me believe in a new era of the internet that isn&#x27;t full of ads, cookie consent forms, dozens of sign-in services, tracking, etc.<p>An anonymous version of myself and my data exists everywhere. It&#x27;s really a hackers dream.
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zzok22超过 3 年前
It&#x27;s much easier to criticize than to build an alternative. I don&#x27;t think anyone at Metamask or in the space in general thinks to themselves that the ecosystem is in a state of full maturity or that there aren&#x27;t major problems. Despite its shortcomings, MM and Web3 have given us capabilities that simply didn&#x27;t exist five years ago. And those capabilities aren&#x27;t just limited to a select number of shadowy super hackers. MM has millions of MAU and that number will only grow as more people see the potential of the tech.
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patwolf超过 3 年前
I was around for web 2.0, and it felt like a substantial change over how the web worked previously. It was the first glimpse that the web was capable of replacing the desktop apps we were accustomed to, while simultaneously adding new capabilities that didn&#x27;t exist in desktop apps. There was a lot more to it, but to the casual user that was the most obvious difference.<p>This was the first thing I&#x27;ve read about web 3, so I didn&#x27;t need to grep my brain to find and remove any existing notions about it. As someone coming in late to the party, I agree that installing a browser extension seems like a deal breaker. Web 2.0 was about getting rid of browser extensions. It also sounds like web3 is missing a killer app. For web 2.0, Gmail and Google Maps and YouTube were all immediately useful to all web users. Web 3 doesn&#x27;t sound all that compelling to a lay person.
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cam0超过 3 年前
I think it&#x27;s poorly named. It&#x27;s not a new major version of the web. Forget the fact that the vast majority of the web&#x27;s users don&#x27;t care about decentralization vs. centralization even a single bit. People will continue to mindlessly use WhatsApp, Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, and Coinbase because decentralization is not a concern for _most_ users. Most users of these apps just want to socialize with friends and family, show off &#x2F; humble brag &#x2F; argue, and gamble.
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X6S1x6Okd1st超过 3 年前
It was only this year that I actually got excited about Ethereum specifically because of what &quot;web3&quot; enables.<p>Yes it&#x27;s a dumb name, and this article certainly doesn&#x27;t cover all of the issues, shit just look at the confirmation page for metamask, it literally just asks you if you want to spend X to submit a byte array. No link to the contract, the method you are calling, any avaliable adudits etc.<p>But if you as a reader have any passing interest I&#x27;d really encourage you to check out what&#x27;s happening in the space, the thing that got me excited was the permissionlessness and composability.<p>Going to uniswap, locking up some funds in an AMM and then depositing that elsewhere to liquidity farm shows off the composability, then the fact that you can see it all tracked on a dashboard like zapper.fi or debank.com really drives the point home.<p>Word of warning, Ethereum it&#x27;s self is now so clogged up with NFTs and people constantly arbitraging or performing liqudiations that it&#x27;s far too expensive to play around with. There is plenty of cheaper EVM based chains though, like Fantom or Polygon
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twox2超过 3 年前
Some valid arguments, but in reality web3 is just the web where the backend is something on the blockchain. It makes sense to talk about how to make this experience more secure, but to say the whole thing is a stupid idea doesn&#x27;t benefit anyone, because a lot of people want it and are going to use it. By the way, most web wallets have hardware support, so you can add an additional layer of security that way.
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okdjnfweonfe超过 3 年前
Really wish progressive enhancement was chosen as the first thing, want to get rid of the backend db? ok, two APIs,<p>store to extension-managed DB (e.g. flatfiles in the home directory, or shunted onto something managed with LDAP, or loaded onto some weird coin thing on a local light node, or etc),<p>or in environments where extensions are fussy &#x2F; overcomplicated, store to another website via a http api (la <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;remotestorage.io&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;remotestorage.io&#x2F;</a>, or if one wants to overcomplicate it again, a remotestorage-to-weird-blockchain-thing-shim)<p>- - -<p>For the article itself, deriding web3 as &quot;Money websites&quot; and then basically asking for &quot;Lightweight money websites&quot; is a bit pointless. Storing stuff on &quot;Money&quot; is a big overhead, If you were to decide to write your data onto a gold ingot, you&#x27;d probably not enjoy the process of going to the bank safe deposit box each time to make a change or read a change, likewise, money websites are going to be encumbered with risk, endless layers of crypto math un-understanding, and stress.<p>Don&#x27;t worry, someone might make a contract to provide that fine grained API you want, and that contract might not have bugs, and the tooling used might not be able to be tricked to use some other contract as an api since you know, decentralized, shouldn&#x27;t be able to use only 1 implementation right<p>Or, if you remove money from the equation, like, hell, replace it with text files or something, even if users need to exchange text files with each other to update each other&#x27;s pages (ok a bit overkill, webrtc should suffice, still requires both people online at the same time though), it still removes a lot of emotional stress
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simmanian超过 3 年前
To me, web3 isn&#x27;t about building everything on some blockchain.<p>Firstly, it&#x27;s about building networks and systems that <i>serve</i> us instead of what we have today: big, monolithic networks that profit off our rage and addiction.<p>Secondly, it&#x27;s about building a model of democracy that is fundamentally more scalable than what we have today: people with differing opinions and values being forced into a single echo chamber and fighting in a zero-sum game to take control of the chamber.<p>Decentralization won&#x27;t solve all our problems, but I believe it&#x27;s a more natural and scalable way to organize on the web.
vmoore超过 3 年前
Web3 is hardly stupid (it&#x27;s actually very clever). The name if off-putting more than anything. When I think of Web 3.0, I think of augmented reality, every physical thing having its own QR code which you can look up easily with a smartphone. And if the thing is too small, it could have a chip in it that communicates with NFC and you could learn more about your environment.<p>We&#x27;re still sort of there, but the dream of QR &amp; NFC codes for everything hasn&#x27;t been fleshed out yet. Web 3.0 could also be simply an assortment of apps? I think we need more app stores, not the two monopolies we have currently (Play and Apple Store).<p>The dream of having everything happen in the browser could die if it wanted. No more trying to makes sites have an &#x27;appy&#x27; feel which has been the main agenda for well over the last decade and a half now.
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pphysch超过 3 年前
Even an ideal blockchain-ified P2P &quot;Web 3.0&quot; is a silly fantasy on par with NAT-less IPv4. First they reinvented gold &amp; databases, now they are reinventing IP.<p>Flat networks are a thing of the past, when you could keep the whole Internet in a paper directory on your desk. Blockchains may be used for settlement and accounting within small networks of international firms, but they will never service the latency and throughput needs of 8 billion netizens.
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api超过 3 年前
My biggest issue with it is its complexity. It&#x27;s impossible to tell what the fuck is happening behind things like Metamask, which makes me wonder if the whole thing isn&#x27;t fake decentralization with hidden centralized services or authorities working behind the scenes. It also means that it&#x27;s hard to create different implementations.<p>I&#x27;ve seen fake decentralization in other areas in the very dodgy cryptocurrency ecosystem. A lot of times it&#x27;s &quot;we&#x27;ll decentralize this eventually when we figure out some issues&quot; but that never happens. After the ICO or coin offering or whatever nothing else happens in the repository and Tesla sells some more high-end cars.<p>The web was simple and its core still mostly is. It has a ton of extensions and newer protocols but you don&#x27;t need all that to use it for its original document store purpose.
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ramon超过 3 年前
Bittorrent seems to be the pioneer in this open P2P space and I liked also the zeronet initiative about descentralized web. Web3 is trying to pickup on that same space, I think maybe unifying these efforts of Web3 with Bittorrent and all will make a big descentralized ground for what Web3 should probably become and yes I do not think wallets are a good approach either it is stupid, is what we have now but we need a better approach without any browser plugins, maybe facial recognition is the key here.
betwixthewires超过 3 年前
My main concern with it is that a lot of these temporary ecosystem workarounds become de facto standard and it lessens the original purpose of doing all this. An example in the article is Infura. It is a system designed to allow easy use of the network <i>in the interim</i> before a truly decentralized peer to peer network is mature, but habits form and interests entrench and tools get built on infrastructure and you get legacy systems and technical debt and nobody wants to change how things work after a while. I think this is basically the gripe of the article, we have not delivered on the sales pitch yet, are still relying on stopgaps, and as time goes on it becomes increasingly difficult to move past them and they become the norm.
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michaellee8超过 3 年前
Lol the company I am working for is doing some kind of wallet that basically allow you to keep and use your private key without a (shitty) browser extension like metamask. You basically just get your key back by authenticating with your google account and pressing your finger at touchid. Basically allow people to have same web 2.0 experience when using web3 apps.
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whywhywhywhy超过 3 年前
I was pretty disappointed when I realized how much of this was just funnelling through one company, Infura to actually function at all.<p>Always assumed Metamask and web3.js was interfacing with the network directly in a decentralized way until I dug in and started coding with it myself.<p>Still think the promise of an identity you can truly own and authenticate with that has finance built in is important in taking the web back from the megacorps.
SamPatt超过 3 年前
Building p2p networks with their own light clients is incredibly difficult.<p>We built OpenBazaar (decentralized marketplace using cryptocurrency) as a p2p network on top on IPFS with it&#x27;s own client. It eventually failed and everyone asked for a web version and a mobile app (which we built but wasn&#x27;t truly decentralized thus negating the entire point).<p>I agree that the current web3 approach is often more decentralized in name than in practice, but it seems to be a tradeoff most people are happy with.
neilk超过 3 年前
I&#x27;m generally a blockchain skeptic but I would count this article as evidence _for_ web3 being important.<p>Everything that matters goes through a phase of the idea being great and inspiring and powerful, but the tooling being utter garbage. The latter is fixable.
klaudioz超过 3 年前
This is a good answer for that: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;levelsio&#x2F;status&#x2F;1434530149119135753" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;levelsio&#x2F;status&#x2F;1434530149119135753</a>
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rvz超过 3 年前
Did the author just forget about the attempted corporate take over of .org? [0]. Blockchains like Ethereum are part of the solution which help prevent something like that from happening.<p>They&#x27;re not at the stage to be usable yet but it seems that is where we are going. It just takes more de-platformings, bans, hostile takeovers, suspensions etc to accelerate the need for this.<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=22122458" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=22122458</a>
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rattlesnakedave超过 3 年前
This whole post reads like someone who is frustrated with a new technology they don&#x27;t understand.<p>&gt;We should stop building key-management plugins and start thinking about a standardizable web API. We must stop training our users to install shitty browser plugins!<p>&quot;standardizable web API&quot; is a total pipe dream. The space moves too quickly for standards. Why is installing a browser plugin bad? Is metamask shitty? The millions of MAU must not have noticed.<p>&gt;We need to make light clients work as soon as possible and become independent from third-party services like thegraph and Infura.<p>What does this mean? You can use metmask and web3&#x2F;ethers.js with your own node. When $$$ is on the line (as with Uniswap, et. al.), it makes sense to farm out your infra to someone else. Should we also be moving away from AWS and its reliability &#x2F; productivity gains to appease the author?<p>&gt;We need to improve our client libraries (ethers.js and web3.js) by dramatically simplifying them and making them bug-free (god damn it!)!<p>Yes, first good point of the article. People are working on this. Could be said about ANY technology. Web3 is still VERY early.<p>&gt;We need to take advantage of some of the blockchain&#x27;s fundamental properties. Most data is immutable so let&#x27;s start caching things.<p>Not sure what this means either. What are we caching? Where? Why? Are you aware we already (kinda) do this with the strata of different ETH nodes via say syncmode in geth? Or are you talking about front ends, many of which are already distributed via IPFS?
xook超过 3 年前
Post&#x27;s date has 2020, but it also says Sept. 8th, therefore I ask: Is this exactly one year old, or a date error?
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overgard超过 3 年前
So I&#x27;ve never heard of this term until now, but actually, I can think of a use case for this I kind of like. So, pretty much daily I get linked to an article on a paywalled site that wants me to subscribe or get a free trial. And I always click away, I&#x27;m not going through the hassle of email verification or putting in my credit card for a 2 minute read. But if this supported something like &quot;pay 25 cents to read this article&quot;, I&#x27;d probably do it. Microtransactions seems like it could be a viable use for this kind of thing?
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sergiotapia超过 3 年前
Unfortunately, &quot;web3&quot; being placed next to words like &quot;crypto&quot; and &quot;blockchain&quot; stains it as bullshit full of grifters and leeches.<p>Edit: forgot about the cherry on top &quot;NFT&quot; another layer of shit on what I thought would be pure and innovative. Grifters all the way down.
Tenoke超过 3 年前
1. The web3 &#x27;vision&#x27; came before the web3.js library they just named it after it but other blockchain interactions fall under it<p>2. There&#x27;ll always be subpar devs, and those that make too many calls etc. There&#x27;s freedom on the web, that&#x27;s hardly a fault of the idea. In fact the whole article is complaints are about some of the current sites rather than anything more (and many of them aren&#x27;t bad). The vision if you believe people with cryptopunk avatars is vaster than that already.<p>3. Some of the complaints like you not having MetaMask to interact with a MetaMask-based website are just odd. Do you complain that users without a phone can&#x27;t be called?<p>4. Ethers.js <i>is</i> a lot simplified compared to web3.js. People are working on all those complaints.<p>5. There&#x27;s non-extension wallets, too. Solflare doesn&#x27;t make me install an extension to interact with sites. The extensions just have benefits - everything is fully local but easily integratable so they aren&#x27;t a bad solution to my eyes.
kerng超过 3 年前
The premise and conclusion of the post is strange because it seems to say Web3 is extremely awesome, and therefore should become default in browers, rather then having to deal with extension!?!? Or did I get this wrong?<p>Brave already integrates these things by the way.
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agustif超过 3 年前
web2: client &lt;-&gt; server web3: client &lt;-&gt; client &lt;-&gt; client
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vmception超过 3 年前
eh, dude, web 2.0 was never defined either. it was cringy for a long time as well. and yes, web 3.0 is absolutely a play on words from web 2.0.<p>this blogger is thinking way too hard about it after some slight disillusionment after a lot of excitement about it, and accurate assessment of its current and future capabilities.<p>its totally okay to criticize how much people rely on Infura. that has nothing to do with an inflammatory title just to get the attention of some Gen-X blockchain skeptics that are just looking for a venue to write their unrelated blockchain skeptic comment.
platz超过 3 年前
&gt; you&#x27;re able to pool thousands of dollars<p>What does it mean &#x27;to pool&#x27; ether?<p>I&#x27;m not familiar with using it as a verb.<p>Or rather, if its just a transaction, what is the mraning of the choice of the word pool for such an event.
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gibsonf1超过 3 年前
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;solidproject.org&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;solidproject.org&#x2F;</a>
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dnpp123超过 3 年前
Sadly not sure the ecosystem is mature enough for any kind of standardization yet.
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sentinel超过 3 年前
It&#x27;s a metaphor dude.