France recalls US and AU ambassadors over sub-deal

52 点作者 playeren超过 3 年前

16 条评论

pvg超过 3 年前

Dupe of<a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28574951" rel="nofollow">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28574951</a><a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28571287" rel="nofollow">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28571287</a>

throw0101a超过 3 年前

Not their ambassador to the UK though:> French foreign minister says France didn't recall the British ambassador over the AUKUS row because France is familiar with the UK's "permanent opportunism" and said Boris Johnson was the "fifth wheel on the carriage".* <a href="https://twitter.com/kimwillsher1/status/1439294035357749257" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/kimwillsher1/status/1439294035357749257</a>:)

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Gravityloss超过 3 年前

These articles are so plain, they don't explain context.I'm not a foreign policy expert or historian but isn't there a rather recent change in foreign relations of Australia, meaning their strategic needs have changed: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia%E2%80%93China_relations#Since_2020" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia%E2%80%93China_relati...</a>Or maybe it's just posturing.

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holografix超过 3 年前

In no political expert but it seems like the choice was between France: very expensive and cost overrunning, less intimidating subs and no strategic cooperation. USUK: we give you superior tech, you help us police China and display a clear message that the US won’t fight this alone.The French are pissed? Je suis desolé.If the Chinese start pushing Aus around and we need help, the French would point to the EU tying their hands while they pat their pocket full of our billions.This decision is not just a embarrassment for France but it’s a vote of no confidence on the EU’s willingness to deter China.

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lostlogin超过 3 年前

This grated: “… This formed part of French efforts to build up a geo-political presence in the Indo-Pacific and act as a global player in the region in the face of an assertive China. It keeps over 7,000 soldiers there, and regularly patrols through the South China Sea. Nearly 2m French citizens live in the Indo-Pacific, including on French territories such as French Polynesia and New Caledonia.”The French have no care for the people of the South Pacific, their vain attempts at empire continue, while their toxic and deadly legacy in the region remains.Careful complaining too hard about the behaviour of France though, they bombed us down here in New Zealand when we did.<a href="https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/09/france-has-underestimated-impact-of-nuclear-tests-in-french-polynesia-research-finds" rel="nofollow">https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/09/france-has-und...</a><a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior" rel="nofollow">https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warri...</a>

playeren超过 3 年前

<a href="https://archive.vn/OxS6n" rel="nofollow">https://archive.vn/OxS6n</a>

grecy超过 3 年前

Having recently come back to Australia, I'm staggered (and honestly impressed) at how good the media is at shaping a story to suit the needs of politicians.In all of this talk of "betraying the French" or "siding with the US", there is not even a mention of the fact Australia is spending towards $100 billion on multiple nuclear submarines.This for a country that only has 25 million people and a GDP of around $1.4 trillion USD.Why on earth does Australia need nuclear submarines, and why isn't that money being spent to improve the lives of regular tax paying Australians?A county of 25 million people that doesn't even have nuclear power (or nuclear weapons) has no need of nuclear submarines, it's an obscene waste of money.

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yyyk超过 3 年前

The sub-deal might be the trigger, but countries don't return ambassadors over a sub-deal. This can't be explained without underlying tensions.One big cause might perhaps be an 18 months travel ban preventing Europeans from visiting the US, a travel ban which separates families and has no justification anymore.

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verytrivial超过 3 年前

"Scott Morrison said the decision will be made after an 18-month process to explore and assess all the issues and options involved."Just to be clear, Australia is also governed by a bunch of opportunistic jerks like the UK is at the moment. I would not be at all surprised is this was a feint to get the French to lower the price and the "investigation" will find various technical issues that preclude going with either the UK or US designs. Australia as a deep anti-nuke history, the government can probably use that as an excuse to fold on the new deal too.

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IdontRememberIt超过 3 年前

This is mainly due to internal reasons (Election day is in a few months). Macron wants to appear Jupiterian again. He changed its communication strategy since this summer. Last couple of months he even "replaced" his (Prime) Minister(s) in the media.Also, an important factor has to be understood about the majority of people in France (Europe?): they hated Trump. When a Democrat was elected, they believed that they had a friend sharing their view on the world. Reality felt like a stab in the back.Reality is that we have entered a new Cold War: China vs USA. Countries have to take a side.For those interested about the *Thucydides Trap* (<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thucydides_Trap" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thucydides_Trap</a>) we are now seeing, I strongly advise this TED talk with Graham Allison: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XewnyUJgyA4" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XewnyUJgyA4</a>

karaterobot超过 3 年前

On the face of it, recalling their ambassadors seems like a petulant and counter-productive way of registering a protest. What is it supposed to do that a speech wouldn't? Is there any effect of this other than not having someone to formally represent France's interests in those countries?

throwaway4good超过 3 年前

If anything this story shows how powerful the military industrial complexes are (in France, in the US). The threat from China is speculative but the business opportunities for the military industry are quite real and massive in size.

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lokar超过 3 年前

They should pay to give the subs to Taiwan. Now everyone is happy except China.

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kowlo超过 3 年前

I was only watching this (<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYF08jJi9Hg" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYF08jJi9Hg</a>) a few weeks ago, and now all this...

dave333超过 3 年前

The French are fried since their foreign policy is now toast.

sschueller超过 3 年前

Here is a comedy video showing how absurd the whole situation in Australia is. <a href="https://youtu.be/MTCqXlDjx18" rel="nofollow">https://youtu.be/MTCqXlDjx18</a>

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