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Something weird is happening on Facebook

741 点作者 incomplete超过 3 年前

54 条评论

jsnell超过 3 年前
With those comment counts, something dodgy is obviously happening.<p>The interesting question here is whether Facebook is somehow accidentally amplifying it. Certainly it is not in Facebook&#x27;s interest to allow this kind of data harvesting. If it hurts you to think that Facebook somehow isn&#x27;t maximally evil, at least consider that this is data that could be only Facebook&#x27;s. Allowing somebody else to harvest it is money straight out of Facebook&#x27;s pocket.<p>So, given FB should not be complicit, what mistake could they be making to allow the system to be haunted? The obvious guess is that they have a feedback loop in the ranking algorithm. It values comments very highly as a signal of good engagement, but they weren&#x27;t prepared for &quot;content&quot; that is this good at eliciting low effort comments and have wide appeal demographically. As long as one of these reaches a critical mass, it&#x27;ll be shown to tens or hundreds of millions of people just by any engagement feeding even more engagement.<p>Is there anything less obvious?
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madrox超过 3 年前
This could be more benign than the article makes it out to be. Growing a content business in 2021 requires you to understand Facebook&#x27;s algorithms and what will get your post amplified. Instagram famously only shows your posts to 10% of your followers by default [1]. The trigger points for your post to reach wider require certain engagement quotas, and if you&#x27;re designing your post to get more comments then it&#x27;ll hit them faster. Often accounts do these kinds of posts because their profile is about selling a single thing (like a book they wrote) or are dropshipping and focused on the marketing side. The real thing they want to get in front of users is the link in their bio.<p>I think the real issue here is that it&#x27;s impossible to tell the benign from the malignant. Is that cute mom blog going to start hawking ivermectin? What is my comment revealing about me that I don&#x27;t authorize? There&#x27;s no Better Business Bureau for Facebook pages. Maybe there should be.<p>1. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.thelovelyescapist.com&#x2F;2018-instagram-algorithm&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.thelovelyescapist.com&#x2F;2018-instagram-algorithm&#x2F;</a>
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aasasd超过 3 年前
1.4 million comments on a single post? Holy crap! I was previously wondering on Reddit, what kind of vapid self-importance compels people to comment in threads that already have over 100-200 comments—when new ones go straight to the bottom and no one sees them afterwards. But this is on scale of some mental illness, unless I seriously misunderstand something about Facebook comments.
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okareaman超过 3 年前
My FB feed is lousy with these sorts of things. My family &amp; friends seem to enjoy answering questions like &quot;What was the first concert you attended?&quot; I don&#x27;t think it&#x27;s for advertising purposes because I have not noticed any improvement in the accuracy of targeted ads. I don&#x27;t think it&#x27;s for political purposes because that is much easier to figure out without these oblique questions.<p>One group who would benefit from detailed life style profiles are life insurance companies. More detail is better for setting accurate premiums while remaining competitive with other life insurance companies.<p>Edit: I almost forgot to mention a really popular one I&#x27;ve seen a lot of lately: &quot;Have you ever had a DUI ? I&#x27;ll wait.&quot; It&#x27;s unbelievable to me that people would answer this question, but it definitely something insurance companies would like to know because their records don&#x27;t go that far back into the paper age. A lot of people answer something like &quot;No, but I should have.&quot;
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jcims超过 3 年前
Some other interesting questions they should pose:<p>- What&#x27;s your mother&#x27;s maiden name?<p>- What street were you born on?<p>- What was your first car?<p>- What&#x27;s your childhood&#x27;s best friend&#x27;s name?
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___luigi超过 3 年前
Social platforms amplifies all of our human qualities, and our interaction habits. Since old ages, people were striving to seek attention and show their work [1] [2]. After reading this book [3] indistractable, I started to reflect on how our educational systems are not designed to prepare students to live in this digital age, yesterday it&#x27;s FB, today it&#x27;s TikTk and tomorrow there will be something else. FB is just one Pawn in this game.<p>I know that siding with FB is one of these topics that are very controversial in HN, but I am not finding excuses for the practices of these companies, my point is that our kids will live in a different age than the one we lived in, educational systems should keep up with these challenges and find innovative way to prepare people to efficiently manage that.<p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Mu%27allaqat" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Mu%27allaqat</a> [2]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Culture_of_ancient_Rome" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Culture_of_ancient_Rome</a> [3]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nirandfar.com&#x2F;indistractable&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nirandfar.com&#x2F;indistractable&#x2F;</a>
ergot_vacation超过 3 年前
&quot;Oh no the Skinner box we built to exploit and manipulate people is being used to exploit and manipulate people!&quot;<p>&quot;But why is that-&quot;<p>&quot;Because OTHER people are doing it!&quot;<p>&quot;Oh no!&quot;
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Johnny555超过 3 年前
I&#x27;ve been wondering what those posts are about, I keep seeing them in my feed, and they&#x27;re always answered by the same 60+ year old relatives.
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TheSockStealer超过 3 年前
Some of these questions are similar to those questions you would see in an identify verification challenges. What is your first car, pet name, city you were born in. I am not saying this is the &quot;only&quot; answer, but could be one of them.
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CosmicShadow超过 3 年前
The same type of people answer these as the people who get an email from Amazon or Home Depot about a product they bought with a question like &quot;What are the dimensions&quot; and they answer &quot;I don&#x27;t know&quot;.<p>And for all time, everyone else is like WTF did you even answer the question if you don&#x27;t know, it&#x27;s not like your friend asked you in person, and that is the story of 80% of Q&amp;A&#x27;s on every product. *SIDE RANT OVER!
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yabones超过 3 年前
My speculation: The exact same thing that happens with reddit accounts used for astroturfing... People will &#x27;build up&#x27; a profile over the course of several months, reposting popular posts from months&#x2F;years ago, etc. They&#x27;re actually quite easy to spot, an account with high posting points and low comment points is usually one of these. Then, when it&#x27;s nice and ripe, they will sell it to a troll farm which uses it to push a particular agenda. We saw this happen quite a bit in 2015-2016, and again starting in early 2020 (though it never really stopped).<p>But, in this case, the product is the &#x27;network&#x27; rather than individual accounts. Something that appears this &#x27;organic&#x27; and &#x27;homegrown&#x27; is a very valuable tool for a widespread disinfo campaign.<p>Or, it could simply be the magician gang that makes viral posts of gross food. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.huffpost.com&#x2F;entry&#x2F;creators-countertop-spaghetti-hack-make-cooking-fun_n_609c2478e4b03e1dd384df0a" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.huffpost.com&#x2F;entry&#x2F;creators-countertop-spaghetti...</a>
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Raed667超过 3 年前
When I was in school (+6 years ago) I had classmates that were in the business of building and selling Facebook pages.<p>This was before Facebook started showing the history of the page&#x27;s title changes over time.<p>As students who were broke and had lots of time on their hand they&#x27;d basically post all day a variation of cultural references, leading questions, polls, memes etc..<p>Anything that would drive the subscriber count up, which is the most important metric for how much they can charge for a page.<p>I&#x27;m guessing the posts that got 1.4 million comments is just that but on steroids.
whyenot超过 3 年前
It&#x27;s becoming increasingly clear that social media needs to be more strictly regulated. How to do that in a free society is a difficult question. OTOH, if we take too long to figure this out, it may be too late. In fact, it may already be too late.
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zaroth超过 3 年前
&gt; <i>For context, compare the layout and content on an authentic blog like Scary Mommy with the spam, ads, and brain-numbing botspeak you’ll encounter on a MediaVine blog like the A Typical Mom. The difference is easy to spot.</i><p>The ads seem much worse on Scary Mom. What am I missing?
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tyingq超过 3 年前
My favorite is questions that appear to be roundabout ways to gather your password reset questions.<p>Like <i>&quot;Your stripper name is: Your Favorite Color + Name of Your First Dog!&quot;</i>. Never fails to get tons of responses.
tarkin2超过 3 年前
So, there’s a network of popular accounts that are posting questions and harvesting the comments to psychologically analyse Facebook users and later politically target them and their social networks with disinformation that’s tailored to their psychological grouping? That’s what I gleamed.
greenyoda超过 3 年前
&gt; &quot;Sure, that first post won’t accurately predict your birth year...&quot;<p>Actually it would have, in 2019. 66 + 1953 = 2019, subtract your age, and you get your year of birth.
bovermyer超过 3 年前
The real question is, how do we discourage interaction with these bait posts on a scale that matters?
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bondarchuk超过 3 年前
&gt;<i>This multi-billion dollar industry has to be getting revenue somewhere else.</i><p>Wait, how do they know this is a multi-billion dollar industry in the first place?
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cpr超过 3 年前
I stopped reading when the article repeated the thoroughly tired and debunked talking points about Russians stealing DNC server materials...
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twic超过 3 年前
First comment:<p>&gt; Generally speaking, people should become more and more wary of memes.<p>I suppose memes which explicitly attack other memes had to emerge at some point.
xenihn超过 3 年前
Not sure if AsianHustleNetwork (AHN) really falls into what&#x27;s being described in this article, but it&#x27;s one of the more insidious FB communities I&#x27;ve run across, in terms of members being milked for affiliate revenue.<p>The content is overall wholesome and useful, but I&#x27;m assuming most members (both contributers and passive viewers&#x2F;clickers) don&#x27;t realize that they&#x27;re lining the owners&#x27; pockets with their clickthroughs, along with whatever personal data is being collected through Facebook.
cxf12超过 3 年前
Clicked on the Cambridge Analytica story Vox ran that you linked. As quoted the author of the piece states &quot;It’s not clear to what extent Cambridge Analytica helped&quot;.
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pkamb超过 3 年前
&gt; Yes, a question-post invites more engagement than a simple comment, but there’s something else at work here.<p>Is there?<p>I&#x27;ve noticed wannabe influencers on Instagram including questions and polls with every one of their Stories. They&#x27;re doing it to &quot;juice the algorithm&quot; by getting responses. That in turn theoretically gets them featured on the Explore Page or whatever. YouTubers do the same things, ending each video with a CTA question you should answer in the comments.<p>The Facebook question pages that boomers answer seem to just be doing the same thing, attracting comments and interactions and thus boosting the page.<p>The bigger question I have is why Facebook thinks <i>I</i> would be interested in seeing in my timeline that my 68 year old aunt has answered &quot;Freddy Mercury&quot; to some question about the best musical act they&#x27;ve seen live.
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rnoorda超过 3 年前
One variant of this that I&#x27;ve seen lately is some sort of wrong or easily-disproved assertion or challenge. &quot;Bet you can&#x27;t name an American city with an E!&quot; or &quot;95% of people can&#x27;t name three European countries. Can you?&quot; It drives engagement not only for people answering the question, but also for those talking about how stupid the post is- either way, it&#x27;s engagement.
Cpoll超过 3 年前
Can I read&#x2F;scrape all 1M comments on one of these posts, or does it only show responses from friends and&#x2F;or people who have looser privacy settings?<p>It&#x27;d be pretty interesting to collect and play around with all the same data this affiliate network is purported to be collecting.
mtnGoat超过 3 年前
some type of ad network of data gathering company is behind it.<p>its pretty straight forward and easy to do. just promote one post to a certain targeted audience(say women only) then run another campaign targeting a specific region or an age group, now you have another dimension of data. Rinse and repeat a few times and you will have a decent data set that you can then cohort out and show targeted ads to on other ad networks. running tens of thousands of these campaigns will net you a lot of very useful data. since you are paying the platform to promote things, they don&#x27;t care, its still revenue to them.<p>the folks behind some of these things seem to be doing pretty well at it too, at least, their social profiles show a very lux life.
marcus_holmes超过 3 年前
I&#x27;m curious if the data harvested from this is skewed to older people, and more &quot;naive&quot; people. Most of my techie friends have uninstalled FB (like me), or rarely interact with it. And my smarter friends just don&#x27;t interact with that kind of clickbait-y post.<p>I wonder if marketing folks will even notice. Like Google Analytics, which is disproportionately blocked by smarter and more technical people. Marketers cheerfully ignore that, though. Will they even know that they&#x27;re missing our data?<p>Is the Venn diagram of FB enthusiastic data-donaters and people who don&#x27;t block GA just a circle? If so, are public policies and corporate marketing strategies going to be designed to cater to them and not us?
tbihl超过 3 年前
&gt;Properly scrubbed, these answers could probably predict your ’16 and ’20 Election preferences with 90%+ accuracy.<p>They could probably <i>guess</i> your preference, but prediction is way harder, as shown by the way so few people saw Clinton&#x27;s loss coming in 2016.
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fortran77超过 3 年前
A good way to get OPSEC data from high-value targets who are smart enough to be quiet on the internet is to go after their wives and children. I&#x27;m wondering if someone is trying to cast a wide net here to get information on people.
brap超过 3 年前
Speaking of weird things happening on Facebook… I see a lot of official artist pages (usually artists who have been pretty successful a few years ago but no longer are, mostly rappers for some reason) that post A LOT of random “memes” (mostly just stuff stolen from Reddit) that are completely unrelated to their work, usually with very clickbaity captions (tag a friend etc). When you go on their page it doesn’t show up. Most comments seem to be from 2nd world countries (like my own). What’s that about?
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jollybean超过 3 年前
I wonder if it&#x27;s even worth pondering the various kinds of dumpster fires that happen there?<p>It&#x27;s like we&#x27;re caught watching a tornado hit a garbage pile ... while the &#x27;exit&#x27; sign is clear for all of us to follow if we want.<p>I think the answer to all questions Facebook-related is &#x27;delete&#x27; &#x2F; &#x27;exit&#x27; &#x2F; &#x27;log off&#x27; and then to go ahead to Spotify and listen to some Ahad Jamal from 40 years ago to put it in context.
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mclightning超过 3 年前
I will repeat it here again. Delete all your friends and content on facebook, and use it as a shell account for logins, events and messenger.<p>Change starts with you. This is simple.<p>I have done this 2 months ago. It works great so far. Most people have moved onto IG&#x2F;Whatsapp already anyways. I know those are also FB owned, but do this as a protest.
PerkinWarwick超过 3 年前
Is it possible to set up Facebook to only give you people you know or people you follow on your feed? I&#x27;d consider an account if that were true, with the appropriate personal filters on of course given the spying the company does.<p>It&#x27;s a totally sleazy company, but it actually provides a valuable service at the same time.
md_超过 3 年前
I’m confused. The premise of this post seems to be that this is some malicious attempt to deduce basic geographic data on Facebook users. But doesn’t Facebook let you target ads based on such data already?<p>Why would I not just pay Facebook directly for such targeting?
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CosmicShadow超过 3 年前
Was just talking about this the other night with my wife and how we should just start our own group sharing these baiting questions to see how quickly and largely we can grow it.
geitir超过 3 年前
It&#x27;s actually a sentient AI trying to learn about humans. It knows exactly when to post in order to maximize engagement
kderbyma超过 3 年前
the same thing happens on Reddit with the AskReddit. they have bots ask simple questions and then the answers I think are being used to train algorithms. Reddit is such that if you scroll on their app in the main feed for long enough it will always be ask Reddit&#x27;s and they will all be those kind of questions
Gollapalli超过 3 年前
Cambridge Analytica style targeted political messaging, and retailoring of political formulae to personality&#x2F;moral-foundations&#x2F;IQ profiles, in order to create coalitions is the future of political messaging and activism. In many ways, now that the gameboard has changed so drastically, it&#x27;s unavoidable.<p>This is how politics works now. It&#x27;s not (just) Russia, or China, it&#x27;s every political activism group or lobby that wants to achieve anything. Welcome to the new age.
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m0d0nne11超过 3 年前
Is there some way to delete&#x2F;filter&#x2F;downvote click-bait header lines on HN like this one?
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pjdemers超过 3 年前
How many people choosing random answer would it take to muddy the data to the point it is useless?
hyproxia超过 3 年前
I suggest to the author going outside and touching some grass. This is literally paranoia.
throwawaywindev超过 3 年前
Those look like phishing for answers to account security questions.
pytlicek超过 3 年前
Something weird is happening on Facebook for a long time :&#x2F;
gavin_gee超过 3 年前
isnt this already known as social engineering data collection for hackers for use in later attacks?
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giansegato超过 3 年前
I don&#x27;t get it. What do these people would be doing with such data? Ok, they know that a certain Facebook account named John Doe is likely to be a male, between 40 and 50 years old, voted for Trump both in 16 and 20. So what? It&#x27;s not like you can retarget said account through ads. I fail to see the purpose.
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PaulHoule超过 3 年前
I think a lot of people are just that stupid.
aaroninsf超过 3 年前
It&#x27;s past time to take a step back and consider as a society that the predominant mechanism for communication, hence the distribution of ideas and hence the formation of socially-dependent constructions of self, and belief systems,<p>are now in the hands of companies like Facebook which by their own admission are driven all but exclusively by the necessary (sic) pursuit of growth via &quot;engagement&quot; at any cost.<p>This system is not just capable of, but <i>biased towards</i> the amplification of exactly that content which maximizes limbic system engagement, i.e., triggers the sub-cognitive emotional brain.<p>I.e. that content which enrages, titillates, and otherwise triggers reward centers.<p>Let&#x27;s look at that again, stripped to the core.<p>Our society&#x27;s primary mechanism for interpersonal communication,<p>is social networks which by their own description, depend on the purist possible amplification of that content which triggers us the most,<p>regardless of all other factors, including truthfulness, social benefit, coherency, utility to the commons, you name it, call it anything you like. The good.<p>Naturally one <i>can</i> individually work hard to use these systems for the good.<p>But the systems themselves have zero incentive to amplify you when you do; and every incentive to amplify the shit-posting trolls being paid by our enemies foreign and domestic.<p>That&#x27;s not hyperbole; that&#x27;s a simple statement of fact.<p>The end of this road is like e.g. the climate change that goes unaddressed in part because of these very mechanisms,<p>approaching more rapidly than we think.<p>A cognitive error to remember: we extrapolate linearly, and have no native ability to extrapolate exponential outcomes.<p>The clearly visible end game in the US for unchecked perpetuation of bad-faith high-performing &quot;engagement&quot; on Facebook and its properties, in particular,<p>is clearly civil war.<p>Maybe it&#x27;s cool for a while; maybe it&#x27;s hot only in moments; but the edge of the cliff is visible and the intense push by bad actors of all kinds to push us off it is palpable.<p>And the mechanism remains Facebook, steered as it is by an amoral culture which sprang from and is perpetuated by a literally emotionally truncated high-functioning sociopath.<p>If you think that&#x27;s wrong, the onus is on you to document how the company&#x27;s behavior internal and external is distinguishable from one in which that is a precise definition.<p>I&#x27;ve said it here many times, I&#x27;ll say it again:<p>If you work for them, it&#x27;s time to quit. If you do business with them, it&#x27;s time to quit. If you think think you can&#x27;t because &lt;reason&gt;, you&#x27;re wrong.<p>The damage to yourself, and to our society, is profound and un-ending.<p>We remain at memetic war and it is reifying into a culture war on the edge of becoming simply a war.<p>Don&#x27;t be part of the problem.<p>Get off now, and work to get others off, and work to unmake this.
GoodJokes超过 3 年前
Delete Facebook. By god. How many articles do we need to write to communicate the same sentiment.
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Buvaz超过 3 年前
Its just me..collecting data to work out what will get my mom of her phone.
captainmuon超过 3 年前
I think this is just a conspiracy theory. What&#x27;s happening is that capitalism sets ridiculous incentives, so people are compelled to set up all these blogs and create these memes to maybe get fractions of cents per interaction. The real scandal is not that the Russians or the Chinese are attacking democracy this way, it is that we are waisting so much productivity on this (both users, and people working on such campaigns).<p>PS: If the described tactic really works, I gotta try it out in order to take over the world.
th0ma5超过 3 年前
Probably mapping spread vectors.
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LAC-Tech超过 3 年前
7 Tacos is a lot. Don&#x27;t let someone you care about eat 7 Tacos, that&#x27;s just enabling.
arbuge超过 3 年前
Just a note for those of you who were confused like I was upon reading this article: the author seems to be using the term &quot;affiliate networks&quot; in an unusual way - they&#x27;re calling Facebook pages with some kind of commercial relationship between them &quot;nodes&quot; in an &quot;affiliate network&quot;.<p>The commonly accepted usage is:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Affiliate_network" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Affiliate_network</a>
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