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Groupon updates IPO filing, admits it's unprofitable

183 点作者 silvio将近 14 年前

12 条评论

puredemo将近 14 年前
Groupon not selling to Google was the dumbest thing I've ever seen a company do.<p>Ever.
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cletus将近 14 年前
Groupon is a fundamentally bad business and I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot cattle prod.<p>Some say that we know they're not profitable but that's really not the point. By counting customer acquisition as an extraordinary expense they are implying that:<p>1. The value of that customer is AT LEAST as much the cost of acquisition; and<p>2. That cost also accounts for the natural loss of customers.<p>This is shady because (IMHO) daily deals customers have very little loyalty to the providers of those services, there is no natural barrier to prevent customers moving to LivingSocial or whomever and the high margin on deal split is transitory because increased competition will reduce what is really nothing more than the artificial scarcity introduced by Groupon's one deal a day (per market).<p>But none of that is why Groupon is a bad business (IMHO). Consider: Groupon offers a deal, people buy it and Groupon and the provider split those proceeds in some fashion. I believe--but don't know--that the provider has to wait for some large part of those proceeds too. Basically that delay is Groupon's cash flow.<p>So what's the best outcome for Groupon and the provider? One of two things:<p>1. The customer doesn't use that coupon. Groupon and the provider pocket the free money; or<p>2. The customer spends above the coupon or is a repeat customer such that the "marketing cost" (to the provider) of the Groupon offer is amortized over multiple visits and/or higher spend such that they make a profit.<p>In the case of (1), many providers really don't want customers to use coupons. There are plenty of anecdotes from people getting bad reactions when they tell a proprietor or a waiter or whatever that they're using a coupon, particularly in restaurants.<p>Worse, coupon users may be people who are prepared to pay full price anyway or the influx of coupon users may prevent full-paying customers from being able to use your service. The propaganda is that you can sell unused capacity. While true for some businesses I think you'll find that many people try to use Groupons in, say, restuarants at otherwise peak or busy times.<p>There are some success stories of (2) but plenty of failures too.<p>What isn't built into Groupon's financial statements is account risk. There is a strong argument that a failing business can make one last roll of the dice with a Groupon offer. If they fail, they were going under anyway.<p>I actually don't know if Google (disclaimer: I work for Google) tried to buy Groupon or not and if we did, at what price. The press reports Groupon turned down a $6 billion offer.<p>My <i>personal</i> opinion is that Google dodged a huge bullet <i>if this is true</i>.
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jcampbell1将近 14 年前
If you are interested in Groupon's actual performance rather than a reporter's linkbait, see the filing. I find the table on page 57 rather informative about the current state of the business.<p><a href="http://sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1490281/000104746911007178/a2204399zs-1a.htm" rel="nofollow">http://sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1490281/00010474691100717...</a>
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yid将近 14 年前
The juice that we're all looking for:<p>&#62; <i>On that basis, Groupon incurred a $420 million operating loss for 2010 and a $117.1 million loss in the first quarter.</i><p>So they had a slightly worse amortized 1st quarter this year than last.
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uptown将近 14 年前
What I don't understand is that Google Offers has essentially mimicked the same type of "deals" that Groupon is offering ... usually NYC restaurants I've never heard of, or activities I'm not interested in. Today's offer is "$15 for a tour of the Ground Zero Museum Workshop (up to a $25 value)". So I unsubscribed.<p>I feel like Google had/has a tremendous opportunity to do what Groupon does, but do it with offers that their users will find valuable. Instead they're just trying to recreate the same cut-rate nail salon discounts and arguably exploitive 9/11 museum "deal".
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hullo将近 14 年前
One interesting number for last quarter, from total sales of $878 million, $341 million or 39% was actually Groupon's. Which definitely seems to be proof that the days of 50/50 splits are over, if any merchant prospects about to talk deal terms hadn't already gotten that memo.
vaksel将近 14 年前
frankly with the status of the current stock market, I don't see Groupon actually doing an IPO.<p>I mean today, the market tanked another 519 points. Everyone is busy taking their money out, not putting it in. And groupon doesn't exactly have the reputation as being a high quality IPO
JangoSteve将近 14 年前
So, my question is, did Groupon turn down Google's acquisition offer because they knew it would probably fall through in the due diligence stage? Whereas, they could then use the hype from the offer to somewhat inflate an IPO?
int3rnaut将近 14 年前
It would be interesting to find out how other coupon sites with similar business models are fairing--as much as the land grab theory makes sense, I actually wonder about the current system of offering stuff I normally wouldn't want for cheap being a viable business.<p>A little off topic but I've been noticing a lot of "TeamBuy" ads on TV (I live in Canada)--one can't help but think that until competition like that is settled there will continue to be tremendous growing pains for Groupon and company.
caffeine5150将近 14 年前
I think groupon has gotten a huge boost from retailer desperation since the 2008 crash. They haven't existed in a normal economy. Not only might businesses decide they are not a good solution in hard times, but in the longer term as the economy recovers, they'll likely have less interest as well.
suking将近 14 年前
It has always admitted it's unprofitable - they dropped their BS accounting metric trying to show that with some magic they were making a profit.<p>To be honest their filing reeked so bad and them trying to slip in that crap and not account for marketing expenses - I wouldn't trust their executive team at all.
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u48998将近 14 年前
Groupon=Bubble