Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

This is really cool. I&#x27;m 30 right now, and only just recently finished my bachelors and have been looking to get a PhD, but it&#x27;s really hard to find a program that will let you work full time while doing it. It doesn&#x27;t help that a part of me does sort of feel &quot;too old&quot; to do this sometimes. The PhD system in the US is really tailored around the assumption that you haven&#x27;t entered the corporate world yet.<p>Anyway, it&#x27;s really inspiring that someone almost three times my age pushed himself through the program. I guess it&#x27;s important to remember that you really shouldn&#x27;t give up on your dreams.

This is very inspiring. I too am young and been in the work force for several years, but unlike the other comments in this thread I am not settled down as an older student returning to school.<p>I am willing to give up a high paying salary to return back to school as a PhD student and I am not tied down with a mortgage or anything else.<p>I find mathematics simply too interesting to not learn at the highest level. Working in industry will simply not teach me the material I want to learn. I’m considering going back for either a PhD in Math or a math heavy PhD in CS. I read math textbooks for fun and worked with tutors to ensure my proofs are done correctly. I can do this for hours on end without external motivation. I taught myself a lot of math and can see myself doing this as a career. I want to do research.<p>Most people my age say the same things in the comment sections in this thread (tied down to a mortgage, make too much money to return). I’m glad generalizations like these don’t apply to me and can’t wait to get back to school

As a university student in my last year of undergrad, I&#x27;ve been tempted to go work as a software engineer, even though I&#x27;m interested in doing research. The opportunity cost just seems too large to give up. Working as a SWE will allow me to earn a massive income in my 20s, during which I have few defendants and a lot of leisure time. While many of my peers are planning to do graduate school right away, I feel like my quality of life would simply be better by going to work in industry right now.<p>With that said, I still love learning and diving deeply into topics like math and the history of science. I hope that I can one day retire off my savings as a SWE and return to graduate school (maybe in my late 30s or 40s). Has anyone done this before? Is there a stigma against graduate students (both Masters and PhD) who are not in their 20s?

The title should really be &quot;Earns Second PhD at 89&quot;<p>This is not one of those stories about someone who &quot;always dreamed of earning a PhD&quot;. This is an MD who already had a PhD in Biochemistry from MIT.

I started a PhD in computational molecular biology. Dropped out after year and focused on software. Some years later, I applied to grad school for a CS PhD but was not accepted. The following year, I got a job in the CS department I had been rejected from, spent 4+ years there before leaving to help start a certain e-commerce company, then left that after a year to raise my daughter. Eventually back to software, and feel proud and happy about the libre software I&#x27;ve given to the world over the last 21 years of that part of my life.<p>You might think after all that that a PhD would be an irrelevance. But actually, I do still sometimes dream of being able to follow that process, of drilling down and into a problem much more deeply than any other context would allow, of having my ideas constantly challenged by smart people, and of eventually (one hopes) coming to some sort of conclusion.<p>I have many friends with CS PhD&#x27;s, and to be honest, I don&#x27;t think my life has been impaired in any way by the absence of the PhD, and maybe even enhanced. Still, it would be nice. And apparently, I&#x27;ve still got 30 years (at least) to get it done!

This resonates with me as someone going back to get an MD. I’m early thirties and a new father. Working through undergrad science classes is kicking my ass, so I’m really impressed that this guy’s brain was plastic enough to handle the rigors of theoretical physics. Inspirational on many levels!

My father earned a PhD in Political science (in France) when he was 70; his thesis was 500+ pages long. He retired early and spent all his time on it. It made him pretty happy.<p>He&#x27;s now 89 and while he hasn&#x27;t done any new research, he&#x27;s still intellectually and physically very active.<p>Retirement is not the time to do nothing, it&#x27;s the time to do what you really like. I can&#x27;t wait.

For all the fantasy here, let me remind you doing a PhD at an early age is one of the worst things you can do to your financial security (CS Ph.D being a major exception). It does not teach any employable skills, leads to a very high level of depression&#x2F;anxiety compared to regular jobs and creates a huge opportunity cost where you miss out saving money early that has true compounding capability. The 2019 Nature survey has more information<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nature.com&#x2F;articles&#x2F;d41586-019-03459-7" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nature.com&#x2F;articles&#x2F;d41586-019-03459-7</a>

Can anyone with a background in the area comment on how legit this is?<p>I have no trouble believing that a spry research professor in a quantitative field could get a PhD in another quantitative field at a fairly advanced age, especially if they can bring existing skills that are underused in their new domain, but it would be genuinely amazing if someone in his 80ies were to successfully<p>&gt; set to work on a very difficult problem [...] the theory that he was doing involves techniques that are incredibly advanced and challenging to master<p>in physics, a field were people are often considered over the hill past their 20ies, and an elite uni at that. The only reference to his work a quick google scholar search turned up is from 2012:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;meetings.aps.org&#x2F;Meeting&#x2F;MAR12&#x2F;Session&#x2F;Z26.1" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;meetings.aps.org&#x2F;Meeting&#x2F;MAR12&#x2F;Session&#x2F;Z26.1</a>

Heh, my second attempt at a Bachelor&#x27;s degree was at 27, and when I was done, a professor asked if I will also continue with the Master&#x27;s degree at the same University. To that I said, no, I&#x27;m over 30 and too old :-).<p>State of mind is a very important thing.

&quot; ... I wanted to do something that keeps my mind active. But it is a matter of whatever you want to do. If you have a dream, follow it. Sometimes that dream may never have been verbalized, it may be buried in the subconscious. It is important not to waste your older days. There is a lot of brainpower in older people and I think it can be of enormous benefit to younger generations. Older people have experience and many times history repeats itself.”<p>I see this as a way to protect one&#x27;s health and sanity as one ages. Aging gracefully should be possible.

He has to be an absolute inspiration to everyone.<p>What&#x27;s more he&#x27;s now 13 years older than the age at which Einstein died, so he&#x27;s shown us that pursuing one&#x27;s desires and goals at any age is a worthwhile venture.<p>I wish him well and hope he continues to get enjoyment from his new expertise in physics.

I am so jealous. I always wanted to do a PhD and was even accepted to a good program. Ended up not going as I could not gather up the courage to leave my job behind. I sincerely hope the experience getting the physics doctorate was all that he had imagined!

This gives me hope. I&#x27;m not even half his age, but already worry about my brain going. When I was 17 I could do basic calculus in my head. Today I struggle to carry numbers in long addition problems.<p>It already has me thinking about my career and future - it certainly is downhill from here.<p>Then something like this happens and just makes me feel like a big baby. Hats off Mr Steiner.

I don’t even have a bachelors. I’ve been thinking about going back to school and pursing higher levels of education (research masters or PhD) twitch a mostly utilitarian fields and do industrial R&amp;D work in a domain I’ve become interested in and my biggest worry is being “old” by the time I complete any graduate education (even though old in my case, would likely be mid-30s by the end if I start in the coming years).<p>I might get crucified for being so jaded and cynical, but completed a PhD as part of some lifelong dream seems a bit empty to me. I think it’s fair to call him a physicist, but I just personally wouldn’t feel the dream was realized. Now, at the end of his life, he’s achieved the bare minimum and I doubt he will be able to do much more in the field or see the field develop.

Seriously? Brown was removed from the title, because one person took it in bad faith?<p>Would Harvard have been removed from a title?

I&#x27;m 40 now, since the pandemics started studying game development (BA), and talking with my colleagues via discord, I&#x27;m quite sure I&#x27;m the oldest one. On the bright side, I&#x27;m the one with the best notes, delivering always weeks before the deadline, despite the fact that I have a full time job and family. I think what the life taught me at best are time management and context switching. Love to learn and be productive. I&#x27;m looking forward to still be a student in the age of 90.

‘My students never knew’: the lecturer who lived in a tent<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;education&#x2F;2021&#x2F;oct&#x2F;30&#x2F;my-students-never-knew-the-lecturer-who-lived-in-a-tent" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;education&#x2F;2021&#x2F;oct&#x2F;30&#x2F;my-student...</a><p>I say fuck to those big name universities that pay peanuts to their most overexploited workers.<p>===<p>Edited: no absolutisms is better<p>Do only a PhD if you&#x27;re sure you can afford it.

Such a motivating life he has created... Please read the complete article and you&#x27;ll find a very important advice in the end from this extraordinary human... ;)<p>And &quot;knowledge hunger&quot; is real... :)

I&#x27;m in my late 20s and my wife works on her own startup (non tech tangible product). I wonder if there are others who have their spouses working and how the marriage factored into their decision to pursue a CS PhD. I&#x27;m not from USA.<p>My primary concerns are her startup tanking, me being unavailable for her mental health and of course a steady income.<p>I sometimes wonder maybe I should pursue a CS PhD after settling down financially by late 40s.

Sometimes I get scared that I&#x27;m too old and will not accomplish my goald It&#x27;s nice to see that I probably have much more time than I think.

It&#x27;s always comforting to know that if you weren&#x27;t good enough to achieve anything of note in your youth you can always earn accolades for being stubborn enough to do it in old age. I have some unreasonable rock climbing goals that seem less likely but more impressive as I age. Also a 42 year old man just became the light heavyweight UFC champ last weekend so I guess... Keep fighting.

What an incredible story. He is my pole star.

Wow and I thought I was taking a risk spending a few years transitioning into robotics in my late 30s :) Awesome to see this, would like to think we all could undertake huge learning challenges at any point in life, and we&#x27;ll probably need to if we care to keep contributing at a high level.

The topic is legitimate but Marston hasn’t done much CMT in 20 years, Witten is considered to have made most of the advances in bosonization in the 80s although there was a paper out of Riverside a few years ago I remember that looked interesting with Mike Mulligan

Audio version of this story is available here (10min): <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;readtoo.me&#x2F;article&#x2F;88495a054f8e8f7b5098fad4b04a3fbf1b026402" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;readtoo.me&#x2F;article&#x2F;88495a054f8e8f7b5098fad4b04a3fbf1...</a>

I don&#x27;t see the point of this. He&#x27;s not going to have a long career as a researcher so why dedicate resources trying to train him to become one? In my country typically being one year behind already counts strongly against you.

This is such a cool story. What a man. I wonder what his patients remember of him.

I did a masters in physics when I was 24 and thought not getting paid a meaningful sum of money was incredibly frustrating. If my two remaining brain cells still function at 84 I&#x27;ll certainly take on a PhD program.

What a sharp mind. Even though he was already recognized scientist the capacity to continue at this so advanced age is nothing but very respectable.

The love Steiner shows for science is heartwarming. Research in physics, or even astro physics, is perhaps the ultimate adventure these days.

Very inspiring story indeed. But the first question resonating in my mind is...<p>Why??<p>While what the student did is good. It serves as bad inspiration for too many people going to college these days just because they want to. And not because of a reason.<p>If the cost of education was low, then I would not be opposed to it. But we all know stories of people who say they are &quot;going back to school&quot; for very minimal benefits later.<p>So... at that age, we can see it as just an aspirational thing. But for younger people, it mostly (not all the time) sends the wrong message.

This made me wonder (not that it matters, just curious): what are the biggest scientific discoveries made by older folks?

This is so inspiring. I am a professor and an engineer. But still I think about physics and still hope to be a physicist.

I sometimes wonder, why there isn&#x27;t a well defined pathway to get a PhD for work done through independent research.

I have phd in comp science and I plan on getting phd and doing research in astrophysics in my retirement

I am 39 right now. Someday I want to earn an MD but it&#x27;s hard to leave my full time job.

I&#x27;ve been planning to become a mathematician in my 70s for some time.

&quot;in (1+1) dimensions&quot;<p>Why is the dimensions written in this way emphasizing +1

Congratulations Manfred!

Some Ph.D. programs are long, but this is excessive!

Absolutely gonna take it to the grave with him :D

I half expected it to say he started it at 23

now go up for tenure

A PhD is research training. Is he doing to do research now, or is this just, like everyone seems to be treating it - a big trophy? Does anyone ever stop to question their credentialist mindset? I heard a character in a video game say indignantly &quot;Excuse me, I have a PhD&quot;, and I thought, well, that&#x27;s not realistic dialog because a PhDs is something you have done, not something that you &#x27;have&#x27;. But then people here are treating it like attainment of literally a &#x27;qualification&#x27; is an end goal in itself.