A Note About Recruiters

32 点作者 bozhidar超过 3 年前

15 条评论

hunglee2超过 3 年前

"You can’t just send random bullshit and expect meaningful results"Unfortunately, this is entirely incorrect. The reason random bullshit occurs at all is precisely because it CAN produce meaningful results. The fact that it more often does compared to any other method is the reason why it is characteristic of tech recruiter behaviour.It is matter of energy conservation.Think of it like this: Recruiters can go one of two paths.A)Carefully read resumes / profiles, up-level on tech know-how, even do a bit of programming as OP recommended. This is a ton of up front cost and therefore only those who can afford to risk the energy would do it.orB) Send lots of random shit, with low up front cost, accept low ratio return and only deal with the positives that come back.The risk is front loaded in Option A, which is why it rarely happens. The recruiters that do do this, will basically be popular for the short time, but not last long as they get outcompeted by recruiters doing Option B.It's not ideal but neither is global warming

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ferdowsi超过 3 年前

Recruiting is tough. Thinking about my last job transition, there was probably a golden period of two weeks where I was truly open to all recruitment possibilities. By the end of those two weeks I was starting to move into the offer stages. So realistically I can't blame the frequency and volume of recruitment communication; it's possible a followup message would have struck at exactly the right moment.That being said, for senior engineers surely it's more likely that recruitment will be more driven by referrals by trusted colleagues? I don't think I've seen referral bonuses rising at a commensurate rate.

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igneo676超过 3 年前

This feels like a fundamental mismatch between his expectations as an internal recruiter vs external recruiters> built the technical recruitment operations in the last 3 start-ups I worked for, so I feel I’m somewhat qualified in the subject matterSure, your startup might have some very tight requirements for a position and the ability to research candidates before conversations. That's precisely what you should do since time is limited and (presumably) you're not hiring for a TON of positionsBut an external recruiter needs to match X jobs to Y candidates. It almost doesn't matter what the tech stack is at that point, you probably have an open position to fill that'll match that person. It's a numbers game and it's a "Please respond to me at any cost" game.And often, even if you did research, there are so many false negatives that it didn't even matter to begin with. I've had targeted recruiters reach out to me that are amazed when my current position doing $CURRENT_TECH isn't completely representative of my skills and I'm actually a viable candidate for $NEW_JOB_WITH_OTHER_TECHThe only real response here is to cut em some slack or ignore them. Guides like these don't help

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peakaboo超过 3 年前

Why would a recruiter spend time and effort on reading everyone's cv and writing personal letters to every candidate? They won't be able to reach more than 10 people in a day doing that, and probably will get 0% responses anyway.I also get these spammy job ads every day but I understand why and I can't offer a better method that actually works better. If you were in their shoes, would you do differently? Only if it worked to be different. So far it doesn't seem to work.Just today I got an email from a recruiter with her playlist so I would know her mood. So yeah. Recruiters try all sorts of things but it's very hard.

ldbooth超过 3 年前

Some recruiting, like some sales jobs and like many things in life, is a numbers game. And there is zero cost for the bulk messaging campaign on the way to the 1/50 affirmative response they will get. If there is a way to solve this inefficiency, it's well worth building a better solution.

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Imnimo超过 3 年前

All of this is perfectly reasonable advice, but I think it'll fall on deaf ears. The jobs these bad emails/messages are advertising are often terrible, and while making a better pitch will let you attract the interest of better candidates, those same candidates will surely not accept the terrible job you're offering, so why bother?

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almeria超过 3 年前

Take the Time to Actually Research SomeoneNice sentiment, but it's never gonna happen.Recruiters are spam bots, period. Their job is to smash square pegs into round holes. Use them or don't use them... but the sooner everyone on both sides of the hiring equation realizes this extremely basic and obvious fact, the better.

908B64B197超过 3 年前

I think we have this post/rant every few months on this site, so let me explain how recruiting works.There's 3 types/market for recruiters and they almost never overlap.The first are "body shop style" recruiters. It's basically a numbers game where they try to cold-call as much people with githubs/linkedin or blogs that reference programming. They don't know programming (not even what's the difference between languages or front-end/back-end) and are looking for a list of buzzwords. They'll send copy-pasted messages (you can tell because it references tech you never used or never even claimed to have used). If you respond (and really you shouldn't) you won't be able to get any relevant information about the position because... they don't have it. These recruiters are often contracted by external firms in "best value countries" and are given canned response to message you. That's probably what the author encountered.Second type are professional recruiters. Their salary is by commissions will often be a percentage of your salary. They are knowledgeable about programming and tech (often former engineers who wanted a break from coding!). They typically are looking to match specific profiles to specific jobs at client companies. This goes all the way to recruiters specialized in C-Suite executives (and you can picture the commission finding a CEO will bring in). Their messages will be personalized and you shouldn't hesitate to reply back even if you aren't looking for a job. They know that most great software engineers are almost never openly looking for a job so their goal is to be on good terms with a large number of talented developers so that the minute they start looking for a job they can match them with positions. You'll know when you encounter one.Third type is basically referrals. A players attract A players, smart companies know it. Make sure your referral bonus is a percentage of total comp. It's probably the most effective way of recruiting (it has an insane signal to noise ratio). But you only get access to that type of network by... bringing value and being part of it in the first place!

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da39a3ee超过 3 年前

I completely disagree with step 1:> Learn the Basics...Ideally you should learn the basics of programming, but at the very least you should understand what different technology stacks are used for.This is the entire problem with tech recruiters: that they try to act as if they understand something about programming and software engineering. They don't, and the more they try to pretend they do, the more embarrassing they are.So what they should do is the opposite: contact us, with the explicit understanding that they don't know our technical domain, but that they are hoping to match us up with an employer. Then at least we can have conversations based on mutual respect.

zulrah超过 3 年前

The worst mistake I made was accepting linkedin invites from recruiters. I expected that it will increase my chances to get offered some kind of job but most of them never even wrote to me. And my linkedin absolutely filled with spam

thenoblesunfish超过 3 年前

Count me among those who has more sympathy than anything else for recruiters. Finding a job is hard. There’s so much uncertainty and fraught communication and rejection for reasons out of your control. What if finding jobs was your job? (That being said, the recruiters I’ve dealt with have been very professional and helpful, so I don’t mean to imply they are to be pitied, just that the realities of it are just as unpleasant as the realities of being a job seeker)

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BayAreaEscapee超过 3 年前

Cold calls/letters from recruiters are a waste of time. I've never had a cold call or letter from a recruiter that resulted in a job.If you have any talent at all, reaching out through your professional network is the way to go.

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pixel_tracing超过 3 年前

This is like a woman complaining about online dating app in that she gets too many messages from men just saying “Hi.”It won’t change :)

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hizxy超过 3 年前

All this complaining about recruiters is so stupid. Yo…they can help you get a job. Get paid more money. Get that dream job.

the_mar超过 3 年前

This guy must be so fun at parties. Seriously do appreciate the opinion of some guy who has never hired anyone. Yes, you mr Bozhidar, despite your name aren't the god's greatest gift for humanity. Nobody cares or should care that you "state in your resume.." - seriously how hard is it to ignore the message?"built technical recruiting" - give me a break hun. you should know the reason why most companies do not offer post-interview feedback