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Workers in Portugal could see healthier work-life balance under new labour laws

226 点作者 dsnr超过 3 年前

22 条评论

libertine超过 3 年前
As a portuguese, while this looks good on paper, it won&#x27;t contribute whatsoever to our current situation.<p>We&#x27;re a country where the nationals earn like shit - probably one of the worst avg and median incomes in whole EU - and are choked to the brink of passing out by high taxes.<p>Our political class is exchanging our young and bright over to foreign pensioners, and now apparently, foreign remote workers.<p>Just so you understand the status quo: people were being pushed out of big cities for years, and now with remote work even more people are being pushed out of medium sized cities in the interior, because everyone wants to live in the country side or by the shore.<p>We&#x27;re fucked in every direction by high rents, high real-estate, high taxes, high energy costs, yet our incomes remain shit.<p>In 20 years you&#x27;ll probably see the news headline:<p>&quot;Workers in Portugal now must work until the age of 75 so they could see a healthier work-life balance under new labor laws!&quot;
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arnvald超过 3 年前
There are a few other interesting things mentioned in the article:<p>&gt; Employers are also forbidden from monitoring their employees while they work at home.<p>I&#x27;m wondering what that includes - any software that tracks mouse movement, applications used etc? Or is it limited in its scope? Anyway, sounds like a win and I hope other countries do that too.<p>&gt; However, a proposal to include the so-called &quot;right to disconnect&quot; - the legal right to switch off work-related messages and devices outside office hours - was rejected by Portuguese MPs.<p>I don&#x27;t understand this - so employer can&#x27;t contact me but I can&#x27;t disable my work phone? Sounds contradictory<p>&gt; [parents] now have the right to work from home without having to arrange it in advance with their employers<p>Another win, though I&#x27;m wondering about the scope - who does it apply to? All office workers? Is there some definition of jobs where the work can be done remotely without limitations (e.g. having to use some machines available only at the work place)?<p>&gt; Companies must also now contribute to expenses that workers have incurred as a result of switching to remote working<p>That&#x27;s cool. I&#x27;ve seen companies already doing it in The Netherlands, but I don&#x27;t know if it&#x27;s regulated in any way, for now it seems companies come up with some arbitrary numbers between 40eur and 70eur a month.<p>All in all, it&#x27;s hard to say how some of these rules will be implemented and enforced, but I like the direction it&#x27;s going. Portugal becomes one of top places to attract remote workers in Europe with it&#x27;s low (for now) prices, friendly taxes, great climate and good level of English spoken in the cities.
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willvarfar超过 3 年前
&gt; Building a healthy remote working culture could also bring other benefits to Portugal, Mendes Godinho said, in the form of foreign remote workers seeking a change of scenery.<p>&gt; &quot;We consider Portugal one of the best places in the world for these digital nomads and remote workers to choose to live in, we want to attract them to Portugal,&quot; she told the Web Summit audience.<p>Portugal has form in this regard. If it sets out to do this at a national level, it will likely actually deliver.<p>It has already succeeded in making itself a great place for other nationals to retire to, for example. Portugal has deliberately arranged its tax system to attract pensioners, and done big sales pushes.<p>And it works. Lots of Swedish pensioners, for example, receive a Swedish state pension but spend that money in their new retirement home in Portugal.
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traveler01超过 3 年前
This shouldn&#x27;t be an example to anyone. This isn&#x27;t a real measure, wasn&#x27;t thought or anything. This is a law made by politicians who are in campaign for the election in january.
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zz865超过 3 年前
Just a reminder that Portugal has some of the lowest wages in Europe, minimum wage is 600 Euro&#x2F;month. Strict laws to protect workers is great until there are no evil employers left to employ anyone.
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logicalmonster超过 3 年前
Workplaces not bugging employees after hours is a great rule of thumb, but blanket rules don&#x27;t leave room for people to use their judgement to resolve (hopefully very rare) legitimate emergencies and problems.
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jl6超过 3 年前
&gt; However, a proposal to include the so-called &quot;right to disconnect&quot; - the legal right to switch off work-related messages and devices outside office hours - was rejected by Portuguese MPs.<p>I genuinely don’t get this. It seems completely backwards.<p>Surely your boss should have the right to contact you, but you should have the right not to answer until your working hours recommence?<p>Is Portugal deciding that the very act of sending a message creates some kind of coercive pressure to work?<p>If so, why did they decide <i>against</i> the “right to disconnect”?
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galfarragem超过 3 年前
&quot;But the amendments to Portugal&#x27;s labour laws have limits: they will not apply to companies with fewer than ten employees.&quot;<p>I suspect the real problem is exactly here not on large companies.
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igammarays超过 3 年前
I say don’t make it illegal, but require it to be counted as paid overtime with a per-minute minimum wage.
forinti超过 3 年前
My admittedly brief experience of working with Portuguese is that they ask a lot of you but that you have the real option of saying no.<p>If you fold, they&#x27;ll skin you alive. If you stand your ground, you can have a nice life.
pelasaco超过 3 年前
I read the linked article with the feeling: &quot;Ok, that&#x27;s not for Portuguese. They want to attract remote workers, to live in Portugal, not to retain Portuguese people&quot;. Tom Bateman, isn&#x27;t Portuguese. Less than 25% of Portuguese work force, worked from home during lockdown. This number will decrease, as soon as &quot;covid is gone&quot;. Therefore I fail to see where this rules will help Portuguese people.
xiphias2超过 3 年前
&#x27;&#x27;However, a proposal to include the so-called &quot;right to disconnect&quot; - the legal right to switch off work-related messages and devices outside office hours - was rejected by Portuguese MPs.&#x27;&#x27;<p>Didn&#x27;t we already had this right in EU?
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AussieWog93超过 3 年前
Important point from the article<p>&gt;Companies with more than 10 staff could face fines if they contact employees outside their contracted hours.<p>Small businesses can and still will exploit their staff.<p>We need to get over this whole myth of small business being good and big business being bad.<p>The worst abuses of staff you will ever see happen under the watch of small business owners.
rightbyte超过 3 年前
This is just annoying for those with legitimate need to send messages. Like trying to solve sick leave vacancies or conveying practicalities.
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ape4超过 3 年前
I guess Slack, Teams and all messaging apps will add a feature to queue up a message to be sent at exactly 9am (or whenever work starts)
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kache_超过 3 年前
Worklife balance laws will never work because there will always be uber competitive mad lads who will put in 12 hour days to get ahead.<p>The only thing that will give you work life balance is leverage in the form of valuable skills that your organization cannot replace.
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adamcharnock超过 3 年前
I&#x27;ve been living in Portugal for 3 years now. I&#x27;m from the UK, I&#x27;m not tax-exempt, I speak basic Portuguese, I live rurally in Central Portugal, I mostly socialise with other foreigners.<p>I&#x27;m also a foreigner commenting on a diverse country into which I only have a narrow view. My experience may not be representative.<p>Bearing all that in mind, here is a random collection of my experiences for those who are interested:<p>EMPLOYMENT<p>There isn&#x27;t much work here for foreigners. Definitely not much skilled work, but there is occasional low-skilled manual work involving working on the land, construction etc. This kind of work is paid at about €6&#x2F;hour. Many of the foreigners I know do remote work (language teaching, translation, graphical work).<p>There also isn&#x27;t much work here for locals, but with an additional spin. When I first arrived here the land I own was very overgrown and needed a lot of work done. I made a conscious effort to try to employ local young-ish people to help, but the work was very unreliable in a variety of ways (quality, reliability, people getting into fights and feuds). I&#x27;ve come to the rough conclusion that all the young locals who can leave this area have left (for the cities, or UK&#x2F;France), and everyone who remains are those who could not leave for whatever reason. I don&#x27;t blame them, especially as I know some of them were dealt a really crappy hand.<p>The result is that as an employer it is hard to find good people. I know this doubly now as I have also started an ISP here. We go to the local startup accelerator and ask if there is anyone who we can hire to help us with marketing, and nothing. They&#x27;ve gone to Lisbon, improved their marketing skills, and not come back (because why would they)<p>In the end we use something like UpWork and hire people in Lisbon&#x2F;Porto to do the work for us. Thereby sending more money to the cities.<p>BUSINESS<p>I think there are an increasing number of businesses who&#x27;s customers are 95% foreigners. I know a Portuguese guy who sells firewood who says as much. I run an ISP and it is definitely the case.<p>LAND PRICES<p>I&#x27;m broadly aware that land prices are going up around here. Foreigners that come here mostly want to live on land, outside the villages. Typically this land has not be maintained for a long time because the owners become old, decided to stop farming it, and open a shop in the village instead (as the previous owner of my land did). The locals generally prefer to live in the villages. Yes there will be overlap, but my intuition says that rural-land-prices and village-house-prices are not rising at the same rate.<p>GENERAL ATTITUDES<p>As long as you speak some Portuguese, the locals are happy to have you (at least from what I can tell). Be nice, be friendly, always help someone out if you can (even if you&#x27;re busy), and it seems to be fine.<p>Most of all, take care of the land. Many of the locals remember how the area looked 50 years ago and are sad to see it become an overgrown wilderness (esp in forest fire season). When I&#x27;m cleaning up the road-facing part of my land, every single person that comes past gives me a big smile and a thumbs up. Seeing those fruit trees producing again, rather than being full of brambles, starts to bring the area back to life.<p>The older people seem to respect practical skills and actually doing the work. I think they have seen a generation of &quot;druggards&quot; (AFAIK, drug-taking drop-outs) not really contributing anything. So they respect people who come here and actually do the work themselves.<p>LANGUAGE<p>People under the age of 40 typically speak English as a second language, people over 40 (ish) typically speak French as a second language.<p>When I first moved here it was normal to go into a shop&#x2F;cafe etc and you would <i>have</i> to speak Portuguese (unlike Lisbon&#x2F;Porto, where English is somewhat standard). That has been changing a bit over the last few years as more and more foreigners come to this area. Shops increasingly try to ensure they have someone on staff with good English. (no value judgement either way from me)<p>Portuguese people will acknowledge that Portuguese is a very hard language, but they&#x27;ll also point out that you can get free classes in the local city. I interpret this as, &quot;It&#x27;s hard, but you gotta at least try&quot;<p>FOREIGNER TYPES<p>I see three kinds of foreigners moving to this area: retirees, hippies, and professionals. The last category is where I am, and it is the smallest category, but it is steadily growing. We typically move here with some remote&#x2F;passive income stream and split our time between earning money and house building. The money we earn we funnel into building supplies, and also vehicles &amp; equipment.<p>FINAL CAVEAT<p>I have experienced all of the above, but yeah, I&#x27;ve only lived here for a few years. I&#x27;m not saying anything of the above is universal at all, and I&#x27;m sure it isn&#x27;t the entire picture.
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throwawaybchr超过 3 年前
I wonder if there are any advertising agencies in Portugal
nashashmi超过 3 年前
What about the other way around? Employee texts boss?
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MrBuddyCasino超过 3 年前
&gt; The new rules are also good news for parents of young children. They now have the right to work from home without having to arrange it in advance with their employers, up until their child turns eight years old.<p>Besides the usual complains about well-intentioned but badly implemented socialist policies and the disregard for 2nd order effects - this seems like a pretty heavy rule to impose?
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PaywallBuster超过 3 年前
from<p>boss: system is down<p>to<p>pingdom: system is down
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tyleo超过 3 年前
I wonder if this includes sending slack messages or emails outside of work. I’ve personally never been _texted_ outside of work but I’ve received these other forms of communication.<p>I’m also a US tech worker. Maybe texting outside work is more common in other countries or professions.
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