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Defund the Police meets the crime wave

192 点作者 hncurious超过 3 年前

42 条评论

scrollbar超过 3 年前
I read most of the article, in which the author implies that defunding the police increases crime, and blames the people in charge of Oakland with this crime.<p>Yet I recalled hearing that police budgets in Oakland were steady to up this year, despite the protests.<p>A quick search seems to confirm this: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ktvu.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;oakland-didnt-cut-any-money-from-the-police-budget-at-all" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ktvu.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;oakland-didnt-cut-any-money-from-t...</a><p>&gt;Despite claims to the contrary, the Oakland City Council did not make any cuts to the police budget at all this year. In fact, Oakland police were allotted about $39 million more than in the previous two years, according to a KTVU analysis of city records.<p>What did I miss?
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plorkyeran超过 3 年前
This is one of many articles which are trying to suggest that we cut police budgets and then crime went up, but the first half of that never actually happened. Oakland&#x27;s police budget is the highest it&#x27;s ever been and was not cut in 2020. The article it links to as a source for police budgets being cut has the headline &quot;Cities Say They Want to Defund the Police. Their Budgets Say Otherwise.&quot;, and shows that police budgets as a percentage of major city budgets slightly _increased_.
adt2bt超过 3 年前
&gt; They claim that, by taking money from police and putting it toward social programs, they can eliminate the need for heavy-handed policing in the first place. But the social programs are an afterthought.<p>This feels like a strawman. I don&#x27;t think it&#x27;s surprising that there&#x27;s a rise in crime when police are defunded, especially when those social programs aren&#x27;t enacted. I think most reasonable progressives who support defunding the police also recognize the whole point is to shift investment away from punishment (police) into aid (social programs) to deter crime. It takes years for that to happen, and really needs to happen on a societal level to provide opportunities that otherwise &#x27;career criminals&#x27; do not have which leads them down that path.
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fatcat500超过 3 年前
The people who support defunding the police have never felt genuine fear from being victimized by crime.<p>It&#x27;s only after the crime, when you&#x27;re thinking about how someone else had the hubris to threaten your life, thinking about how you could have died, or worse, if your loved ones had been with you, that they could have died, that you begin to wade yourself into a deep and abiding anger.<p>I used to feel sympathy for criminals. Especially seeing how many of them have led rough lives, having been raised by bad parents, in horrible environments, having been led by others to delinquency as youth, then into crime as adults.<p>However, once you have been victimized, this sympathy vanishes. It does not matter how bad you&#x27;ve had it -- violence is never justified. Any person who resorts to violence instantly loses all justification.<p>It is only the rich who can afford to stroke their moral ego in such an egregious manner. It is the poor and the middle class who pay with their lives for this sanctimony.
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rafale超过 3 年前
All of this debate is based on the bs idea that poverty breeds crime. When in fact it&#x27;s a bad culture that does. I have seen places in 3rd world countries much poorer than most poor minorities in the US , and they just lived, helping each other out the best they can.<p>But when the culture praises gangsters, being a &quot;bad bitch&quot; or whatever cancerous crap they brag about these days, then you get the issue of crime.<p>Unpopular opinion, but culture is a bigger factor than most people recognize.
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endymi0n超过 3 年前
The knee-jerk reaction of &quot;defund the police&quot; to the power abuses of police officers struck me as deeply weird from the beginning.<p>It made me wonder whether the right NOR the left had any clue left as what the role of a police force in a democracy was actually supposed to be — or whether that battle cry _really_ originated from the same forces trying to split the US society: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;us-news&#x2F;2017&#x2F;oct&#x2F;14&#x2F;russia-us-politics-social-media-facebook" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;us-news&#x2F;2017&#x2F;oct&#x2F;14&#x2F;russia-us-po...</a><p>Like, there would have been lots of great claims: &quot;Train police&quot;, &quot;Restructure Police&quot;, &quot;Rebuild Police&quot;... but what&#x27;s a single good argument to &quot;Defund Police&quot; other than wanting to go back to anarchy?
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felistoria超过 3 年前
The police departments can get 100 billion a year and it won&#x27;t matter when the DA just lets criminals walk after they are arrested. I think that is one of the main factors in the rise of crime and violence. The Waukesha tragedy is a good example of this.
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drewwwwww超过 3 年前
i think it&#x27;s worth pointing out giving the still semi-inflammatory nature of the headline, no serious advocate of defunding the police has ever suggested that simply doing that is the goal. the idea is to shift funding from cops walking around with guns killing people to things that actually prevent crime from happening, and as the piece points out, even in the few places that have actually reduced funding to police, that has not occurred in any significant way.<p>it&#x27;s a resource allocation argument, not an &#x27;everything would be better if police instantly winked out of existence&#x27; argument.
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scottcodie超过 3 年前
Their cited research paper on police presence deterring crime does not fully support his claims.<p>FTA:<p>&gt; Defund advocates often claim that police don’t actually prevent crimes, that they only bust the perpetrators after the fact. But that’s untrue. Police presence deters crime. <i>Arresting career criminals takes them out of circulation.</i> And, most important, effective policing bolsters a community’s faith in government-administered justice.<p>From the cited paper:<p>&gt; Since larger police forces lead to reductions in index crimes, the decline in index crime arrests that we observe suggests that larger police forces <i>reduce serious crime primarily through deterrence rather than by arresting</i> and incapacitating additional offenders.<p>More from the paper:<p>&gt; With respect to the prospect for police hiring to “widen the net&quot; of the criminal justice system, we report mixed conclusions. ... we find evidence that larger police forces lead to large and meaningful increases in low-level “quality of life” arrests, in particular for Black civilians, where the per capita arrest increase for liquor violations and drug possession is 2.5-3 times higher for Black civilians.
terminatornet超过 3 年前
&gt; I have seen the unraveling over the past year in my own neighborhood. In October, about three blocks from my house, a neighbor was shot and killed in a home invasion. About a mile south in the same month, a 15-year-old girl was shot to death in an act of road rage. And just a few weeks ago, a little more than a half-mile west of me, another teenager was fatally shot.<p>What exactly would police have done in any of these situations to prevent them from happening?<p>&gt; They claim that, by taking money from police and putting it toward social programs, they can eliminate the need for heavy-handed policing in the first place. But the social programs are an afterthought. What matters most to these activists is tearing down the cops, not building up the tattered neighborhoods those cops are charged with protecting.<p>Progressives in the US want an increased federal minimum wage and guaranteed healthcare for everyone. Studies seemed to show mixed results on whether or not this will result in a decrease in overall crime, but now seems like the time to try.
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keewee7超过 3 年前
Many comments here are pointing out that police haven&#x27;t been defunded yet. But just threatening to defund a service will lower the quality of that service.<p>The &quot;Defund the police&quot; movement has completely dominated the Internet and mainstream media so it wouldn&#x27;t surprise me if many cops are moving to smaller towns or changing fields.
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le_epic_throw超过 3 年前
Sorry, but I haven&#x27;t seen any evidence for a &quot;crime wave&quot; in 2020-2021. FBI stats show a slight uptick in violent crimes. These rates haven&#x27;t been seen since... <i>gasp</i> ... 2017.<p>If police-civilian interactions really decreased 80% (as quoted in the article), and in exchange violent crime only raised 5.6% [0], personally that shows even dramatic reductions in police presence don&#x27;t lead to complete &quot;anarchy&quot;.<p>I fear, given the increasing discussion around this crime &quot;&quot;&quot;wave&quot;&quot;&quot;, that some disastrous &quot;tough on crime&quot; policies are going to be (re)introduced in the coming years.<p>[0]<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;crime-data-explorer.app.cloud.gov&#x2F;pages&#x2F;explorer&#x2F;crime&#x2F;crime-trend" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;crime-data-explorer.app.cloud.gov&#x2F;pages&#x2F;explorer&#x2F;cri...</a>
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nverno超过 3 年前
Defunding the police, along with every other policy, applies well in some areas and poorly in others. When I was a kid, our town decided to defund the police, cutting the force from 3 to 1 officers IIRC. It made sense because there was no crime, and the townspeople didn&#x27;t want to waste the money on police. All useful politics are local.
ogou超过 3 年前
The phrase &quot;defund the police&quot; appeared a month or so after the first protests. There was an existing niche movement to abolish police and prisons that was small but organized in Portland and Oakland and online. At first there was no message or cohesive platform, just anger. The abolition movement had plenty of slogans and content for young folks frantically searching &quot;social justice&quot; on their phones.<p>Also, police departments were flush with military surplus from excess war supplies and Homeland Security grants. So they showed up to the protests with tanks, full body armor, and automatic weapons. There was shock at those images that fed an older liberal response to &quot;demilitarize the police&quot;. That was used to soften &quot;abolish&quot; to &quot;defund&quot;. Coupled with some civic movements to shift budgets to mental health response instead of armed force, &quot;defund the police&quot; became a thing.<p>Very few cities ever actually defunded their police. Minneapolis itself voted it down.
Abroszka超过 3 年前
I thought violence is up almost everywhere in the US compared to previous years. It would be interesting to see whether this increase correlates with police funding or not. My bet would be no.
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coding123超过 3 年前
It&#x27;s not the de-funding or firing of police causing this.<p>It&#x27;s the general announcement that everyone is on-board with de-funding the police that is causing it. You tell everyone that the police are not needed? What do you think the crime prone are going to react with? More crime.
modriano超过 3 年前
No police defunding has actually happened though, so I&#x27;m fairly confident that that doesn&#x27;t explain the increase in violent crime, much less the DECREASE in property crime [0].<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2021&#x2F;06&#x2F;16&#x2F;upshot&#x2F;murder-crime-trends-chicago.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2021&#x2F;06&#x2F;16&#x2F;upshot&#x2F;murder-crime-trend...</a>
g8oz超过 3 年前
I am convinced that many police units are an undeclared work to rule campaign. The resulting rise in crime is absolutely expected and will scare the country into backing off from efforts to enact serious reforms. &quot;If we can&#x27;t do our job like assholes than we are not going to try too hard.&quot; seems to be the message. And it absolutely will work.
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keewee7超过 3 年前
In 2017 Copenhagen had a wave of gang shootings with 1-2 daily fatalities during the worst weeks. That is nothing compared to the most violent US cities but it was completely unprecedented for a Danish city.<p>The gang warfare was stopped by massive police operations and surveillance. This included military surveillance and signal intelligence planes [1] and helicopters to aid the police.<p>It worked. I know it goes against techno libertarian ideals on HN to suggest that police and surveillance can actually stop crime but it did in 2017 in Copenhagen.<p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.berlingske.dk&#x2F;samfund&#x2F;politiet-tager-nye-vaaben-i-brug-mod-banderne-vi-goer-fund-og-fangster-fordi-vi" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.berlingske.dk&#x2F;samfund&#x2F;politiet-tager-nye-vaaben-...</a>
sleepysysadmin超过 3 年前
There&#x27;s an interesting book I read not long ago. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;The_End_of_Policing" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;The_End_of_Policing</a><p>For the most part I didn&#x27;t learn anything new. Though didn&#x27;t necessarily agree with everything.<p>If you were to list out every task the police do and don&#x27;t do.<p>Eliminate any and all laws that the police never enforce.<p>Fix any law which is disproportionately applied. For example, less than 1% of traffic accidents are because of speeding. Yet police enforce speeding laws extensively doing huge damage to society. On top of that, so many of the applications are intentionally meant to be antagonistic toward society. Speeding laws are meant to be set where 80% of society does not break the law. That&#x27;s not at all how it is. It&#x27;s set such that 100% of society is breaking the law. With intention of revenue generation.<p>It&#x27;s not just speeding. It&#x27;s all the petty laws meant to generate revenue. Does your bike have a bell? These laws change police from law enforcement to antagonistic toward society. This is the fundamental problem. The police are no longer there to help you, they are there to be against you. Anything you say will be used AGAINST you in the court of law. Anything you say will NEVER BE USED FOR you in the court of law. The police are the enemy, this is intentional design and no politician ever will consider fixing this problem.
the_cat_kittles超过 3 年前
this article has no content. just show some contextualized statistics of how police funding correlates with crime. in seattle, it really hasnt from what ive seen. but if you have compelling numbers, go ahead
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giantg2超过 3 年前
Walking and spraying multiple houses... I was surprise there was no return fire, then I saw it was CA.
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olliej超过 3 年前
Except police budgets have been increasing for decades, and the amount of crime has as well.<p>The biggest problem is every time there’s any suggestion that maybe the police aren’t actually doing a good job, police stop working and then blame any change in crime of lack of money.<p>This is ignoring the non-theft crime caused by police (pedofile ring in Oakland PD, fraud, murders, etc). they also change their reporting of crimes to inflate or deflate the rate of crime as necessary.<p>Hell they’ll even create their own crime wave if necessary: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;1982_Boston_arson_spree" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;1982_Boston_arson_spree</a><p>Despite being the most significant cause of theft in the US.
throwaway0a5e超过 3 年前
Many cities in the formerly industrial parts of the US that have had these police long since defunded by economic circumstance. You don&#x27;t have rampant crime in those places.<p>The west coast&#x27;s crime problem has nothing to do with money and everything to do with executive policy (to not do much prosecuting, to the point where crimes that were formerly opportunistic are now low risk enough to become reliable sources of income for those so inclined) that&#x27;s slowly being copied in more and more cities hence the overall trend.
temp17364超过 3 年前
Read: priveleged person gets mad when the structure that provides that privelege gets dismantled.<p>Like seriously. You&#x27;re scared that there are gunshots and people dying in your neighborhood? Are you scared for the people in the projects who have been living like that for years? Where is this &quot;effective police force&quot; for those people?
Smoofer超过 3 年前
Similar propaganda being pushed by LAPD union leader: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;losangeles.cbslocal.com&#x2F;2021&#x2F;12&#x2F;07&#x2F;we-cant-guarantee-your-safety-head-of-lapds-police-officers-union-warns-tourists-away&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;losangeles.cbslocal.com&#x2F;2021&#x2F;12&#x2F;07&#x2F;we-cant-guarantee...</a>
ab_goat超过 3 年前
For anyone that likes podcasts, there&#x27;s a good podcast (1h27m) on this topic:<p>The Ezra Klein Show &#x2F; Why Is Murder Spiking? And Can Cities Address It Without Police? &#x2F; November 23, 2021<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;overcast.fm&#x2F;+oiPWjrl3U" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;overcast.fm&#x2F;+oiPWjrl3U</a>
MonadIsPronad超过 3 年前
Good article. Nice calm tone, interesting points. Seems like a good addition to the conversation.
Fervicus超过 3 年前
A good read with links to research on the subject: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;journalistsresource.org&#x2F;criminal-justice&#x2F;defund-the-police&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;journalistsresource.org&#x2F;criminal-justice&#x2F;defund-the-...</a>
mysecretaccount超过 3 年前
&gt; Defund advocates often claim that police don’t actually prevent crimes, that they only bust the perpetrators after the fact. But that’s untrue. Police presence deters crime[citation provided]. Arresting career criminals takes them out of circulation. And, most important, effective policing bolsters a community’s faith in government-administered justice.<p>Regardless of whether defunding is good&#x2F;bad for crime, this is the core justification for existing funding in this article and it is quite thin.<p>Edit: I am unclear on why this is getting downvoted. Almost nothing in that paragraph is adequately substantiated anywhere in the article. I am not married to any particular perspective on this topic, but remain unconvinced of the author&#x27;s conclusion.
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somenewaccount1超过 3 年前
The article the author cites as a source literally says &quot;the majority of cities have not refunded the police&quot;.<p>Mods, This should be removed from HN as a pure opinion piece with no factual info. Gross.
digitcatphd超过 3 年前
Why is this political shit on HN?
AnthonyMouse超过 3 年前
The problem with &quot;defund the police&quot; is that we never really defined what it was.<p>Are we talking about the libertarian thing were you literally don&#x27;t have the police anymore, and then you have a posse of ordinary citizens come together to execute arrest warrants and a high rate of private firearms ownership to deter crime? That would have been a weird thing to hear from progressives, I would think. And did anybody actually do this anywhere?<p>But if it&#x27;s not that then the whole thing comes down to the details of what you&#x27;re actually talking about.<p>That&#x27;s kind of the problem with the whole movement. You have some really quite serious problems with the criminal justice system. Police unaccountability, perjury, prosecutorial misconduct, overcharging, the plea bargaining system. Civil asset forfeiture. Traffic fines used for revenue generation, creating adversarial interactions between ordinary people and the police and needlessly increasing the opportunities for things to go very wrong. Over-criminalization of everything, causing the US to have the largest prison population in the world. The War on Drugs. Things that really need to get fixed.<p>But then we have a video of a white cop killing a black man and a media narrative that says it&#x27;s all about race, even though the statistics don&#x27;t bear that out.<p>If you misidentify the problem then you&#x27;re going to come up with dumb solutions.
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kragen超过 3 年前
&gt; <i>The shooting didn’t even make the local news. Apparently, in the Bay Area right now, you can walk up a residential street firing your gun into houses, and you still won’t be able to compete for attention with all of the other sensational crimes.</i><p>The Bay Area includes San Jose (25 murders a year), Oakland (normally 110 murders a year), San Francisco (50 murders a year), and dozens of other cities which are mostly more peaceful but contribute several dozen more murders a year to the total. So it has roughly one murder every day. There&#x27;s a nice historical overview of the statistics at <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sfchronicle.com&#x2F;crime&#x2F;article&#x2F;Homicides-increased-in-Bay-Area-major-cities-in-16494869.php" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sfchronicle.com&#x2F;crime&#x2F;article&#x2F;Homicides-increase...</a>, explaining that Oakland&#x27;s murder rate has gone up 45% in 02021. The Merc has a great homicide map at <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.mercurynews.com&#x2F;2020&#x2F;01&#x2F;06&#x2F;bay-area-homicides-2020-map-and-details&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.mercurynews.com&#x2F;2020&#x2F;01&#x2F;06&#x2F;bay-area-homicides-20...</a><p>A murder a day is plenty for the local news most of the time. So it&#x27;s hardly surprising that a drive-by shooting that <i>failed to actually shoot anybody</i> wouldn&#x27;t make the news, because things like that happen every day, and have been for thirty or forty years. This is not, in itself, a symptom of anything unusual in the SFBA this year.<p>(Of course, there are many unusual things in the SFBA this year, since it&#x27;s the second year of the pandemic, but a crime wave doesn&#x27;t seem to be one of them, except in Oakland.)<p>scrollbar points out in <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=29503928" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=29503928</a> that in fact Oakland <i>increased</i> their police budget this year by US$39 million. So, if we&#x27;re supposed to infer a causal relation from police defunding to homicide rates from these data, it would be the opposite of the one Weiss (or Leighton?) arrived at: increased police funding &quot;caused&quot; a huge jump in the homicide rate. This is not entirely implausible, but it seems unlikely to pan out on further investigation (for reasons Leighton mentions later in the story).<p>You can see from the SF Chron story I linked above that Oakland&#x27;s murder rate has mostly been between 20 and 40 per 100,000 residents per year for half a century, peaking above 40 from the leaded-gasoline crime wave just after 01990. This is very much in conflict with Leighton&#x27;s portrayal of Oakland as being full of &quot;areas where crime and violence are more of an abstraction than a daily reality&quot;, as is the Merc&#x27;s map. The corresponding number for the US as a whole from <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;List_of_countries_by_intention...</a> is 5.0. Oakland is more like Brazil, Mexico, Nigeria, and South Africa than it is like the US; its spectacular murder rate puts it in the neighborhood of the top 50 cities in the world: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;List_of_cities_by_murder_rate" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;List_of_cities_by_murder_rate</a>. On <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;List_of_United_States_cities_b...</a>, it was #23 by murder rate among US cities in 02019, before the current crime wave, with a historically very low rate of 16.24 (and #3 for robbery, and #2 for motor-vehicle theft.)<p>I remember one afternoon, early in the current millennium, when I went to visit a friend in Oakland. I was having a hard time finding a place to park on her block. Her neighbor across the street was practicing martial arts with weapons in his yard, but he was kind enough to interrupt his practice long enough to push someone else&#x27;s car along the curb a few meters, making space for mine. For me, that memory defines Oakland more than the memories of lovely afternoons on the grass at Lake Merritt.
throwawayfear超过 3 年前
surprisedpikachu.jpg
dang超过 3 年前
I took the less baity title from the author&#x27;s site: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;leightonwoodhouse.substack.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;defund-the-police-meets-the-crime" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;leightonwoodhouse.substack.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;defund-the-police-m...</a>. I didn&#x27;t change the URL because this appears to be a more recent article on the same topic.
pixelgeek超过 3 年前
&gt; Defund advocates dismiss these arguments—not because they can refute them with evidence, but because they’re blinded by ideology.<p>I don&#x27;t know how you are supposed to take a writer seriously when they write things like this.<p>&gt; Even in the absence of a viable alternative, they demand that existing law enforcement structures be torn down.<p>And this actually just isn&#x27;t true. The author has time to read academic papers on policing issues but he doesn&#x27;t seem to have read any of the material that police abolitionists have written.<p>He also references Michael Shellenberger frequently, a man who has also written &quot;Apocalypse Never: Why Environmental Alarmism Hurts Us All&quot; and &quot;Break Through: Why We Can&#x27;t Leave Saving the Planet to Environmentalist&quot;. I think Shellenberger had to put aside his &#x27;liberal&#x27; credentials a long time ago.<p>&gt; Today, with few exceptions, there is no more involuntary treatment for serious mental disease or drug addiction. But nor is there a humane alternative. There is only jail or the streets.<p>Maybe this has something to do with public funding for mental health being slashed almost everywhere and also linked to drug laws. So people who are on the streets and self-medicating because they couldn&#x27;t get treatment can&#x27;t be placed in the few available options because of their drug intake.<p>The entire article is a gloss over the issues without any real look at it.<p>San Fran is indeed a messed up city. So is Oakland. But I really don&#x27;t have time for white people complaining about a situation that <i>never</i> affects them. He is complaining about his nanny having to move. Not him. His nanny. How does that compare to the police killing your friends and relatives for no reason?
uoaei超过 3 年前
A note on the comments, if meta-discussion is allowed:<p>Seeing a lot of unchecked and unexamined confirmation bias despite the complete lack of evidence presented in the article or anywhere else that there is any kind of causal relationship here. Many commenters here on HN are self-aware but in the grass we can find hiding those who paradoxically fetishize rationality despite continually falling into fallacy traps.
mercy_dude超过 3 年前
Bari doesn’t sound to me a genuine person. I have seen her first podcast with Joe Rogan where she sounded like a layperson with typical 21yr old understanding of sociology-political affair. Then she suddenly became pro free speech and anti establishment media. This is a person who has worked for NYT for gods sake.
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aejnsn超过 3 年前
You get what you pay for.
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unethical_ban超过 3 年前
This should probably be flagged, but I&#x27;ve thought about creating an HN clone where people could put some kind of code in their profile to validate their identity, to have these kinds of conversations with the same handle they use here, while keeping HN clean and tech friendly.
oaktrout超过 3 年前
I combined <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;List_of_United_States_cities_b...</a> and <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;List_of_mayors_of_the_50_largest_cities_in_the_United_States" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;List_of_mayors_of_the_50_large...</a> (proxy for political party), and found that the top 13 cities with the highest crime rate in that combined data set were democratic. 7 out of 9 republican cities were in the half with the lower crime rate. Interestingly, all 3 cities with independent party mayors were in the lower crime half.<p>Of course this is totally unscientific, but I think it is interesting and at the very least there is some association. I also note that larger cities tend to be democratic.
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