Mount Athos, the “Autonomous Monastic State” of Greece (2016)

The time zone issues sound fun:<p>&gt; A visit to Mount Athos also involves literal time travel. The monasteries there still go by Byzantine time, in which the day begins at sunset, not midnight, so the time zone changes literally every day. Visitors may have to set their watches back by as much as seven hours as they cross the border. And don&#x27;t forget to change the date as well. Mount Athos never adopted the new-fangled 16th-century Gregorian calendar; they still use the Julian calendar of the Roman Empire, which lags 13 days behind. It&#x27;s almost two weeks ago there!

I often yearn for the &quot;unearthly quiet&quot; and structure of a monastic life. I am not religious but I just feel as if I don&#x27;t belong in society: I don&#x27;t care about work, jobs, careers, riches, fame. I would like a life of study, contemplation and silence.

BTW Greece moving into the EU meant they had to get a special ratified status to keep blocking women access (that would be illegal otherwise)<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;eur-lex.europa.eu&#x2F;legal-content&#x2F;EN&#x2F;TXT&#x2F;?qid=1577994018803&amp;uri=CELEX:11979H&#x2F;AFI&#x2F;DCL&#x2F;04" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;eur-lex.europa.eu&#x2F;legal-content&#x2F;EN&#x2F;TXT&#x2F;?qid=15779940...</a>

Well, the company I work for builds the hotel system for two of the biggest monasteries! (It&#x27;s a super outdated .NET Framework + webforms website for which, over the years, they have requested micro-changes to the fullest extent so it&#x27;s really made to measure now, I am pretty sure it will never be upgraded)<p>The two monks I have spoken with are real sweethearts, but they sound really bored and idle to me. They do love speaking with my female coworker though which is, eh, kinda funny. :p

One of the bad aspects of religions are such restrictions that have no base whatsoever. If we omit this anachronism, Agion Oros, as it&#x27;s commonly called in Greece, is a nice place to visit (Christian men only) with an unspoiled environment and peaceful way of living. It&#x27;s common for many Greeks to visit at least once this special place (something like Hajj&#x2F;Hadji), but in recent times this has been declining. There are 20 monasteries [0], not all of them Greek and it&#x27;s true that there are many daily things performed different than our ways.<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;commons.wikimedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;File:Karta_Athos.PNG" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;commons.wikimedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;File:Karta_Athos.PNG</a>

Not too different in reason, but until 1868 some female disciples of a particular religion were banned from climbing Mt Fuji passed a certain point: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.atlasobscura.com&#x2F;articles&#x2F;a-religious-cult-believed-they-could-be-reborn-inside-mount-fujis-womb-caves" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.atlasobscura.com&#x2F;articles&#x2F;a-religious-cult-belie...</a><p>&gt; Not everyone could revel in wonders of Mount Fuji’s lava caves. Until 1868, women were banned from climbing higher than the middle zone of the mountain, ascetics worrying that they would distract men from their religious duties and other traditional taboos.

I had a two week pilgrimage to Mt Athos on Summer 2019. It was literally a trip to another world. We wondered around the peninsula and visited few monasteries and met wonderful people living there. Happy to see this on HN. If anyone has any questions I&#x27;m more than happy to answer those.<p>Btw, there&#x27;s a great documentary about Mt. Athos that I think really expresses the ehtos of the place: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;U5pwfLRI-R8" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;U5pwfLRI-R8</a>

I remember an interesting story from history books. During the 14th century plague, Serbian emperor and empress asked for a safe place at Athos peninsula. They were granted access, but the empress needed to be carried away all the time, and carpets needs to be put before her whenever she goes anywhere. It worked out because the rule was not that women are not allowed there, but because &quot;women may not put step on the holy ground of Athos peninsula&quot;.

There&#x27;s a good 60 Minutes segment on this from a few years back: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=6mXl8C4-M_4" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=6mXl8C4-M_4</a><p>I also believe you have to follow the Greek Orthodox religion to be able to visit - they might make some rare exceptions. (might be wrong)

The comments prove once again, as if proof was needed, that the easiest way to provoke an argument with a bunch of hackers is to bring up date-time.

From another article: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bbc.co.uk&#x2F;news&#x2F;magazine-36378690" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bbc.co.uk&#x2F;news&#x2F;magazine-36378690</a><p><i>&quot;One of the traditions is that the Virgin Mary was blown off course when she was trying to sail to Cyprus and landed on Mount Athos. And she liked it so much that she prayed to her son that she should be given it as her own and he agreed,&quot; says Speake. &quot;It&#x27;s still called &#x27;the garden of the mother of God&#x27;, dedicated to her glory, and she alone represents her sex on Mount Athos.&quot;</i><p><i>This applies to both humans and domestic animals, except for cats.</i><p><i>&quot;There are a lot of cats around and it&#x27;s probably a quite a good thing that there are because they are good mousers. They turn a blind eye, as it were, to the fact that there are female cats,&quot; says Speake.</i><p>Like so many rules, it seems to be enforced strictly, except when inconvenient.

There are exceptions. During the holocaust, Mt Athos sheltered Jewish families including women. Meanwhile, to avoid destruction from Hitler during the German occupation in Greece, they wrote to Hitler asking for his personal protection... which was granted<p>Also, the many female saints and especially the Theotokos (Mary) are prayed to often and are in an important sense present on the peninsula.

Wonder if they will get some kind of bonus points in heaven for the streak of daily prayers for more than a thousand years uninterrupted. Don&#x27;t lose the streak! ;)

At the end of the book The Broken Road [1], the great adventurer and writer Patrick Leigh Fermor writes about his stay on Mount Athos. This followed his 1930&#x27;s journey, almost entirely on foot, from Holland down the Rhine and then along the Danube to Istanbul. The book and the two others about his trip are some of my all-time favorite bedtime reading.<p>There&#x27;s more on Mount Athos on a website devoted to Fermor: [2]<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2014&#x2F;03&#x2F;09&#x2F;books&#x2F;review&#x2F;patrick-leigh-fermors-broken-road.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2014&#x2F;03&#x2F;09&#x2F;books&#x2F;review&#x2F;patrick-leig...</a> (Archived: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.ph&#x2F;uAM3B" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.ph&#x2F;uAM3B</a> )<p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;patrickleighfermor.org&#x2F;2011&#x2F;04&#x2F;30&#x2F;mount-athos-a-visit-to-the-holy-mountain&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;patrickleighfermor.org&#x2F;2011&#x2F;04&#x2F;30&#x2F;mount-athos-a-visi...</a>

In gender segregated monasteries, how common was there of rules against inviting members of the opposite sex? As I understand it, there existed many different enclosed religious orders, both for men and women, and most Christian orders seems from a glance to be exclusive.<p>Orphans who grow up in such places must have gotten some very strange perspective about the world.

Mt Athos has its own scandal: Esphigmenou Monastery [0], one of the most religiously fanatic places on earth. In short, the monks have seized the building for decades and deny any contact with anyone not heretic, while the official head lies in a safe place outside of Mt. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Esphigmenou" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Esphigmenou</a>

<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Xerxes_Canal" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Xerxes_Canal</a> is pretty neat too

Interesting timing of this post. A priest from Hamatoura Monastery in Lebanon (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;lebanonuntravelled.com&#x2F;hamatoura-monastery-kousba&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;lebanonuntravelled.com&#x2F;hamatoura-monastery-kousba&#x2F;</a>), just died it was announced he is to be buried at Mount Athos.<p>Hamatoura appears to be of similar style of build, high up on a cliff....or rather in a cliff!

With things like this, I always wonder how it was under the Byzantines. Probably not so bad, but probably not flying that flag either.

During the cold war KGB agents used Mount Athos as a route into the west. Orthodox monks would get visa and eventually citizenship in Greece when they moved to live in Mount Athos. Russian Orthodox church was controlled by the KGB and the Soviet State, so it was easy for them to send spies as bearded monks who would leave after getting citizenship.

There&#x27;s a great book by Lois McMaster Bujold called Ethan of Athos that somewhat explores this idea expanded to encompass an entire planet. Technically it&#x27;s part of a series, but it&#x27;s standalone. It follows an obstetrician from the planet that has to leave to acquire ovarian tissue cultures they need to produce more children.

The peninsula was on the invasion route of Xerxes I, who spent three years excavating the Xerxes Canal across the isthmus to allow the passage of his invasion fleet in 483 BC. After the death of Alexander the Great, the architect Dinocrates (Deinokrates) proposed carving the entire mountain into a statue of Alexander.

Talk about holding a gripe:<p>&gt; The peninsula was raided by Catalan mercenaries in the 14th century in the so-called Catalan vengeance due to which the entry of people of Catalan origin was prohibited until 2005.<p>It seems Catalans are old troublemakers

Your regular reminder that Anathem is a fantastic book. It explores different (non-religous) ideas of monastic life, and also features time-keeping outside regular society&#x27;s sense of time...

I&#x27;ve been there once with my son for 4 days, had only 2 hours of sleep a day, no coffee, and didn&#x27;t feel tired at all. You really feel you&#x27;re on a different planet there!

&gt; &quot;Do all woman have haloes?&quot; he wanted to know.<p>What we consider attractive (boobs, ass etc) comes from society. There are tribes where women go around naked with no issue. Back in the Victorian era they used to go ga-ga over ankles.<p>So it&#x27;d be interesting exposing* a man like that, whose essentially a blank slate, to a nude woman and seeing what he finds attractive.<p>*no pun intended!

Medieval times are still here