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Julia Computing's co-founder involved in government mass surveillance project

36 点作者 tachyons超过 3 年前

18 条评论

alice-i-cecile超过 3 年前
I don&#x27;t think that &quot;government mass surveillance project&quot; is a particularly fair characterization of Aadhaar[0], particularly in the context of Viral B. Shah&#x27;s involvement in it back in 2010.<p>A national ID program with a per-person unique identifier has clear societal benefits, and while it can certainly be abused to enable &quot;government mass surveillance&quot;, it is not such a project itself.<p>Data can be cross-referenced for both good and ill: the existence of a unique identifier akin to an SSN is not an inherently terrible thing.<p>[0]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Aadhaar" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Aadhaar</a>
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ssivark超过 3 年前
Whatever the shortcomings of the AADHAAR project, it is probably the most important (for public welfare) national infrastructure project in the recent past. It has been absolutely pivotal in onboarding a large fraction of India&#x27;s population on to 4G mobile services and digital payments infrastructure. It also serves as the backbone of India&#x27;s &quot;Direct Benefits Transfer&quot; approach to welfare, which helps circumvent the massive corruption endemic in the previous means of distribution. This is arguably the backbone of the IT revolution necessary to upgrade governance infrastructure to the twenty-first century, for a billion people.<p>- For a thorough explanation, see: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;tigerfeathers.substack.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;the-internet-country" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;tigerfeathers.substack.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;the-internet-country</a><p>- Nandan Nilekani &amp; Viral Shah even wrote a book laying out the vision behind the system: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.goodreads.com&#x2F;book&#x2F;show&#x2F;27420086-rebooting-india" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.goodreads.com&#x2F;book&#x2F;show&#x2F;27420086-rebooting-india</a><p>----<p>There&#x27;s still a lot of room to debate cases of mis-handling, privacy issues, implementation details, etc. but calling it a mass surveillance project is just plain wrong. It is basically India&#x27;s analogue to &quot;Social Security&quot; in the US. It is very easy to criticize AADHAAR from the perch of the english-speaking elite (who never face almost any of the problems that AADHAAR solves), but one needs to empathize with the problems of the bottom ~third of the country (~400M people) living in abject poverty -- to even start having a meaningful discussion about the pros and cons of the approach.<p><i>Smearing a programming language by association is further just flagrantly in bad faith!</i>
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amkkma超过 3 年前
The details and implications seem to be disputed, but in any case, What in the world does this have to do with Julia? What will be accomplished by involving an MIT open source language which is opening new horizons in climate science, physics, economics and other societally important fields?<p>The happiness and productivity of current and next gen programmers and data scientists are relying Julia&#x27;s success. If you have ever used the mess that is the pydata stack and its myriad different incompatible type systems, DSLs and APIs, and then breathed the fresh air of Julia, this should resonate. (numpy+pytorch+TF+python lists+ numba+pymc3, jax etc etc )<p>I have zero affiliation with Viral or Julia Computing, I&#x27;m just a guy who wants to continue enjoying writing the next line of code without looking up pandas docs for millionth time.
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defaultprimate超过 3 年前
This sucks. I love Julia, especially for developing analysis tools. I started using Python in place of MATLAB when it was permissible in my work environment, but now I try to use Julia when possible, and almost exclusively in non-professional analysis&#x2F;data endeavors.<p>I personally take issue with what Aadhaar is at its core, but the referenced thread of the associations and what&#x27;s being done with the data is downright horrifying.<p><i>Andhra Pradesh leaked #Aadhaar of every school student, their claim is to stop school dropouts. This data is shared with Microsoft which boosts itself for building an AI</i><p><i>Andhra Pradesh built a search portal to search anyone&#x27;s information using #Aadhaar. This portal was again publicly accessible to anyone. That search portal which everyone says doesn&#x27;t exists are all over the place</i>
naruvimama超过 3 年前
AAdhaar is an unique identity systems, India is among those few countries that lacks a citizens registry.<p>It makes it easy to receive government services and KYC, removes the need to fill in redundant information in every form. India is also a welfare state whether people like to call it one or not, every thing from toilets, electricity, housing and transport is either paid for or subsidised by the government.<p>A lot of Indians are unaware that such id systems have existed in the developed world for close to a 100 years. Even the country which had been hosting Osama bin laden has a citizens registry, India still does not have one.<p>Before you get outraged please do some research on the topic, or perhaps the world would be safer if you don&#x27;t use Julia.
kerneltime超过 3 年前
Wow! Allegations without context or material. Who would have thought someone on twitter would sling mud!<p>If the Indian government is going to implement the Aadhaar card.. I rather would like folks such as Viral Shah on the team to make sure the implementation is headed in the right direction.. The scale and operational challenges faced are significant. The context for that twitter thread is a leak of private data that occurred. If competent engineers are not involved, it will only get worse.<p>This is analogous to the US Govt implementing a plan to provide universal healthcare but random developers getting angry when a competent engineer works to make sure it is done right..
RansomStark超过 3 年前
The project is called Aadhaar, and on it&#x27;s surface it doesn&#x27;t seem to be that bad, its a government ID that contains biometric and demographic data and doesn&#x27;t seem to contain much more than what is requested of people at the US boarder, or what is contained on most national ID cards in jurisdictions where those exist, and at least the Aadhaar is voluntary, that is the government cannot deny service if someone chooses not to possess an Aadhaar ID. Reading the Wikipedia article also gives hope that the project isn&#x27;t as bad as it might be.<p>&quot;On 24 March 2014, the Supreme Court restrained the central government and the UIDAI from sharing data with any third party or agency, whether government or private, without the consent of the Aadhaar-holder in writing.&quot; [0]<p>&quot;On 26 September 2018, the Supreme Court ruled that Section 57 of the Aadhaar Act was unconstitutional, meaning that private entities cannot compel their customers to provide their Aadhaar number as a condition of service to verify their identity, specifically citing requiring it for bank accounts, school admissions, and mobile phone service as examples of unlawful use cases&quot; [0]<p>I still wouldn&#x27;t want to have this kind of a system pushed on me, but then I would prefer if the ID chip was removed from my passport...<p>[0]<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Aadhaar#Legality_of_sharing_data_with_law_enforcement" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Aadhaar#Legality_of_sharing_da...</a>
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cookieperson超过 3 年前
This is a reality of being a software developer anywhere. If you need a job or money, and someone is offering, you will probably take the job.<p>Viral is a nice person, I&#x27;ve met them once before. I sincerely doubt their involvement in any project like this was malicious or greed driven at the expense of others well being. Anyone who has worked for a govt or a large advertising company is doing things like this, or worse. If anything Viral is just another person who took a job they may or may not have understood or agreed with. Not agreeing with or normalizing the realities of this project, I don&#x27;t know anything about them.<p>I will say this. It is deeply unfair given what we do know about the project to shame or blame any single person for this sort of thing.
vsskanth超过 3 年前
On further googling, it looks like their problem is that Viral B Shah contributed to the Aadhar project (universal ID) for India.<p>I don&#x27;t get what&#x27;s the problem here. Its a government project for a federal ID to streamline benefits and ID, like a driver&#x27;s license or a passport. Its pretty widely used now and IMO very useful for a developing country like India.<p>This is akin to getting mad at someone for doing a stint at USDS.
mohanmcgeek超过 3 年前
why is a single ID card for everything called &quot;survillance&quot;.<p>Sure, I would have preferred if this wasn&#x27;t so leaky. But can someone tell me how this is surveillance if they&#x27;re not tracking transactions, conversations or my individual choices (which I assume they are not)
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freemint超过 3 年前
Viral Shah co-wrote a book about said system. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.goodreads.com&#x2F;book&#x2F;show&#x2F;27420086-rebooting-india" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.goodreads.com&#x2F;book&#x2F;show&#x2F;27420086-rebooting-india</a><p>From the reviews it is obvious that it was not intended as a mass surveillance project
lmz超过 3 年前
Leaky databases aside, the objection to a National ID system is very American&#x2F;British thing.
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blueflow超过 3 年前
This is a torch &amp; pitchfork store. Think twice before you might do stupid things..
dandanua超过 3 年前
It seems to be just a government ID system. No proofs of mass surveillance are given. The emphasis on the language is even more disgusting. Flagged.
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rvz超过 3 年前
Very devastating and a blow to open-source and privacy if true. Regardless, it has been admitted and the confession is already there on Wikipedia. [0]<p>&gt; He was actively involved in the Aadhaar project, which provided a 12-digit unique-identity number to Indian residents based on their biometric and demographic data.<p>Oh dear.<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Viral_B._Shah" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Viral_B._Shah</a>
anon0192837465超过 3 年前
government &quot;mass surveillance project&quot;. An attempt to make headlines juicy?
voakbasda超过 3 年前
Will the Julia language survive this? Not as bad as the whole Reiser situation, but this diminishes my interest in the language.<p>Oppressors should not be given any support. And lest someone forget, “I was just following orders” is not a defense. He made a choice that will have negative impact on individual privacy for generations to come.
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AstroDogCatcher超过 3 年前
Julia has some nice ideas but it is time for a do-over as a fully open language (ie without the commercial backer actively upselling in their mailing list), and with the &quot;time to first plot&quot; and package management problems addressed.
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