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More information on Google's new web language, Dash

256 点作者 praxxis超过 13 年前

23 条评论

sriramk超过 13 年前
As an ex-MSFT person, this doc sounds like a Microsoft doc more than something you would see from Google.<p>And I'm amazed at sentences like these - can you imagine MSFT saying this and getting away with it? "The goal of the Dash effort is ultimately to replace JavaScript as the lingua franca of web development"<p>and<p>"What will Google developers be using? We will strongly encourage Google developers start off targeting Chrome-only whenever possible as this gives us the best end user experience."
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antimatter15超过 13 年前
In the FAQ section, they mention a "Cloud IDE" named Brightly, which frankly seems more interesting than the language itself:<p>"How does this affect our cloud IDE (Brightly)? Brightly will enable building any web application in V1 using today’s Javascript plus the additions in Harmony. As soon as it is ready, Brightly will support Dash as well. We expect that the more prescriptive development aspects of Brightly that will come on line in the future will be more Dash focused."
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cousin_it超过 13 年前
Whenever I look at all these old and new curly-brace languages, I imagine a world where they are different runtime libraries for the same language instead, and no one has to learn the subtle syntactic differences introduced by the latest group of well-meaning overlords.<p>I mean, there's only one widely accepted way to write a "for" loop in a curly-brace language, right? Only one possible syntax for the ternary operator. One obviously right way to organize classes and imports. A couple competing ways to declare types (Foo foo or foo:Foo), but perhaps we as a community could make a bold choice just this once? One obvious syntax for generics, and so on.<p>The lowest common denominator I have in mind looks almost exactly like early versions of Java, except with optional typing ("var"), some rudimentary generics and without checked exceptions.<p>There seems to be no good reason for new languages like Dash to embrace a different style. And there's one big reason why you'd want source-level compatibility: polyglot libraries! For example, there's a rather huge open source library for dealing with geographical coordinate systems, basically a huge bunch of complicated math with almost no platform dependencies. How awesome would it be to have it compilable for the JVM, the CLR and the Flash player from the same source code?<p>I'd imagine many shops would jump at the chance to future-proof big parts of their code in this way. And the syntaxes are already so tantalizingly close to each other! Juuuust different enough to enable platform lock-in...
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mumrah超过 13 年前
Maybe rather than a new language, we should work towards browser "assembly" code. Lots of modern JavaScript development is in the direction of: write in language X, compile to JS. Would be nice if there was a lower-level target than JS
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equark超过 13 年前
I have a feeling that Dart may be some version of Bracha's Newspeak. If you read his blog post on Javascript's failings, you'll see him talk about how they are already trying hard to have Newspeak fill the gap:<p><a href="http://gbracha.blogspot.com/2011/03/truthiness-is-out-there.html" rel="nofollow">http://gbracha.blogspot.com/2011/03/truthiness-is-out-there....</a><p>There is also an uncanny link between the features Dart highlights -- security, optional typing, modularity -- and Newspeak. The timing of Newspeak development and Google's Dart also coincide perfectly. The blog post talks about a Javascript compiler, pluggable type system, IDE (Brightly?) all being in the works.<p>Newspeak's pluggable type system sounds similar to what is known about Dart. For instance,<p><a href="http://bracha.org/newspeak.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://bracha.org/newspeak.pdf</a><p>&#62; We also intend to extend Newspeak with an optional type system and a framework for pluggable types , enabling the language to enjoy most benefits of static type systems without incurring their limitations.<p>It also seems like a smart engineering choice to base whatever Dart is heavily on some proven language, even if there is a new VM. Given that Newspeak is Bracha's most recent attempt and it's goals are so well aligned, it's hard to imagine he'd start from scratch.
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peterhunt超过 13 年前
I really wish that we would see a concerted effort to get Python in the browser (or anything reasonable, really) rather than creating yet another new dynamic language that needs half a decade to grow a decent ecosystem. JavaScript has been around for years and only in the past few years have we seen a legitimate developer ecosystem emerge around it.
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jameskilton超过 13 年前
This is from a year ago, but this is also the first time I've heard of it. Do we know the progress of this movement today? Googling for "Dash Language" and variants doesn't give me anything of note.
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Groxx超过 13 年前
&#62;<i>Developers using Dash tooling will be able to use a cross-compiler to target Javascript for browsers that do not support Dash natively.</i><p>So it'll have all the inherent downsides of Javascript, because you can't cross-compile without restricting the abilities. I wonder how they feel about CoffeeScript?<p>At least Mozilla is trying something <i>completely</i> different with Rust. Maybe they could support that effort instead?
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allertonm超过 13 年前
Hidden away in there is the news that Google plans to obsolete GWT.<p>Sorry, I mean "support teams for a long time on the current generation".
CurtHagenlocher超过 13 年前
There seem to be quite a few ex-Microsoft people involved.
mythz超过 13 年前
I Like the ethos behind Dash but language design is also an art, and judging by Go - Google is not very good at it.
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moonboots超过 13 年前
First Go now Dash, Google should really google for these names before choosing them
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craigmccaskill超过 13 年前
This looks like (from my admittedly limited perspective) an attempt by Google to build their own language ecosystem to reduce the reliance on Java and limit any potential future liability from patents held by sun/oracle.
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Detrus超过 13 年前
For a while it seemed like Google had a strategy with Go, NaCl and Pepper. But they have other "evolutionary vectors" and the reasoning is not obvious. Is it technical or political?
swah超过 13 年前
Since they are the ones (IIRC) that started writing Java and converting it to Javascript (GWT), they wouldn't be pushing for a language without some static typing, right?
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fuzzythinker超过 13 年前
In Chrome by mid 2011, I guess it's a bit behind schedule..
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chc超过 13 年前
What they're talking about here seems a bit vague, but with all the talk of somehow being related to Harmony, this sounds more like Traceur (get a jump on that slow-moving JavaScript) than whatever Dart is going to be. But I could be totally off and maybe Dash is Dart.
tluyben2超过 13 年前
This sounds bad to me. I was hoping they had something real, but this is disappointing. It won't work as JS is too big (I would love to see them try), but it doesn't seem to 'fix' anything; it's just more of the same.
peterbraden超过 13 年前
Interesting that they blame the rise of apps on easier to use platforms like iOs rather than the bigger issue of closed ecosystems with better hooks to devices and vendors crippling browsers.
reddit_clone超过 13 年前
&#62; isolation, leaves the web in a hobbled state and unable to compete against the encroachment of other, less open platforms.<p>This seems more about fighting Apple Appstore than fixing Javascript issues.
tree_of_item超过 13 年前
Brightly sounds almost as interesting as Dash. A web based IDE from Google!
wavephorm超过 13 年前
This sounds like a pretty good strategy to me. I'd like to see some syntax examples. And I hope they have a JavaScript-to-Dash converter so I can move over as much as my existing codebase as possible.
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ThaddeusQuay2超过 13 年前
You kids and your new languages! While you endlessly debate over features and runtimes and whatnot, I still happily use PL/I under OS/360 on Hercules, and I don't think that I'm missing out on anything worthwhile. All of the below were built by real engineers, and have stood the test of time. It's an unfortunate waste of manpower that the industry keeps trying to reinvent things which remain perfectly usable. May the 60's never re-IPL!<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS/360" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS/360</a><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hercules_(emulator)" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hercules_(emulator)</a><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PL/I_programming_language" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PL/I_programming_language</a>
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