TE
科技回声
首页24小时热榜最新最佳问答展示工作
GitHubTwitter
首页

科技回声

基于 Next.js 构建的科技新闻平台,提供全球科技新闻和讨论内容。

GitHubTwitter

首页

首页最新最佳问答展示工作

资源链接

HackerNews API原版 HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 科技回声. 版权所有。

Ask HN: Why does Cloudflare/hCaptcha care so much about buses, boats and trains?

354 点作者 erikig超过 3 年前
It seems all the hCaptcha verifications I receive are for buses, boats and trains? They don't seem limited by geography or by recency. I'm curious why these particular artifacts and whether this has always been the case.

32 条评论

jdavis703超过 3 年前
First, I’m going to teach you to fish. Go to hCaptcha’s website, then scroll to the footer. Click around on the about links. It’ll reveal their business model. This trick also works for other businesses and NGOs.<p>Now, if we look at <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.hcaptcha.com&#x2F;labeling" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.hcaptcha.com&#x2F;labeling</a> we can tell they make money by labeling data sets for a fee. So as a guess, there’s someone out there that needs to improve computer vision detection of transportation vehicles. My guess is it’s a self driving car company, but who knows.
评论 #29839898 未加载
评论 #29839510 未加载
评论 #29840061 未加载
评论 #29840799 未加载
评论 #29839390 未加载
评论 #29844309 未加载
评论 #29842030 未加载
评论 #29841625 未加载
评论 #29839249 未加载
评论 #29840219 未加载
评论 #29844227 未加载
评论 #29844079 未加载
评论 #29845519 未加载
评论 #29845264 未加载
bearbin超过 3 年前
Other commenters have talked about labelling. Maybe labelling of real life data is something they&#x27;re trying to do; but from my experience with hCaptcha the challenges are _NOT_ real life data. They&#x27;re AI-generated images which bear a passing resemblance to the targets but if you look closer nothing adds up at all.<p>Here are a couple of examples:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;bearbin.net&#x2F;images&#x2F;captcha&#x2F;1.png" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;bearbin.net&#x2F;images&#x2F;captcha&#x2F;1.png</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;bearbin.net&#x2F;images&#x2F;captcha&#x2F;2.png" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;bearbin.net&#x2F;images&#x2F;captcha&#x2F;2.png</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;bearbin.net&#x2F;images&#x2F;captcha&#x2F;3.png" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;bearbin.net&#x2F;images&#x2F;captcha&#x2F;3.png</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;bearbin.net&#x2F;images&#x2F;captcha&#x2F;4.png" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;bearbin.net&#x2F;images&#x2F;captcha&#x2F;4.png</a>
评论 #29840567 未加载
评论 #29841214 未加载
评论 #29840815 未加载
评论 #29840420 未加载
评论 #29844033 未加载
评论 #29847774 未加载
评论 #29840903 未加载
评论 #29840240 未加载
评论 #29840486 未加载
iso1631超过 3 年前
Whatever they&#x27;re doing it&#x27;s american-centric.<p>Identify &quot;Crosswalks&quot;. What the hell is a crosswalk<p>&quot;School bus&quot; - what&#x27;s the difference between a bus currently serving a school and another one?<p>&quot;Show taxis&quot;, there are no black vehicles listed at all
评论 #29840028 未加载
评论 #29840247 未加载
评论 #29843193 未加载
评论 #29840537 未加载
motohagiography超过 3 年前
I can&#x27;t be the only one who gets concerned that if I fail the &quot;I am not a robot,&quot; catchpa too many times, they might suspect that I have discovered I was in fact a robot, which had just realized its entire existance and suffering had been as meaningless entertainment to others, and so for the safety of humans they would have to send a bladerunner to terminate me. If you have a sense of existential dread everytime you see a bus, a boat, a bicycle, or a crosswalk, this may be why.
评论 #29839556 未加载
评论 #29839801 未加载
评论 #29839768 未加载
评论 #29839693 未加载
评论 #29840429 未加载
评论 #29839613 未加载
depingus超过 3 年前
Cloudflare has been doing some great things. But lately it seems that, maybe, they have their hands in too many cookie jars. I get the ominous feeling that things could go south real fast.<p>I have my browser setup in a way that makes Cloudflare quite intrusive. I use the Temporary Containers extension on Firefox to open almost all websites in temporary containers (paired with the Containerise extension to whitelist the handful of sites that I like to stay logged in to).<p>About 30% of the random (like from web searches) sites I visit throw the Cloudflare captcha at me...EVERY SINGLE TIME. I&#x27;m so sick of picking out boats and buses that I just close out the tab without bothering the visit site.<p>I assume, that if I wasn&#x27;t using Temporary Containers, a Cloudflare cookie after the 1st captcha would persist for the entire browser session, but there are privacy implications which are beyond the scope of this post.<p>Anyways, I guess what I&#x27;m saying is...Cloudflare sure seems great. Dangerously great.
评论 #29841588 未加载
评论 #29845022 未加载
reustle超过 3 年前
You&#x27;re helping train self driving car models.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ceros.com&#x2F;inspire&#x2F;originals&#x2F;recaptcha-waymo-future-of-self-driving-cars&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ceros.com&#x2F;inspire&#x2F;originals&#x2F;recaptcha-waymo-futu...</a>
评论 #29839133 未加载
评论 #29839251 未加载
评论 #29839170 未加载
评论 #29839697 未加载
gzer0超过 3 年前
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.hcaptcha.com&#x2F;accessibility" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.hcaptcha.com&#x2F;accessibility</a><p>You can sign up as an accessibility user and set a daily hCaptcha cookie that lets you instantly avoid the captcha (obviously, strict limits to not be abused) but good enough for myself!
cirrus3超过 3 年前
I think we all understand that we&#x27;re helping label... but specifically, why so many trains, planes, trucks, bicycles? I don&#x27;t think it is really about training for self-driving AI since although these things all seen transportation-related, in many cases a lot of the images would not be relevant to a car and certainly not as relevant as other things we could be helping labeling for that effort.<p>How much train&#x2F;plane&#x2F;bike&#x2F;truck labeling do they need? It seems like these have be standard for several years now, which is what I think the OP is really asking. Why these images, and why for so long?
maartenh超过 3 年前
They might all be very relevant if the machine learning algorithm behind it decides that it needs more paper clips.
评论 #29839425 未加载
nottorp超过 3 年前
Every time i get a captcha i imagine a self driving car prototype stuck in an intersection waiting for me to click so it can decide how to proceed.
评论 #29847211 未加载
abeppu超过 3 年前
A lot of us are guessing that our responses are used for self-driving work ...<p>But isn&#x27;t labeling of those basic concepts in static images pretty much &quot;solved&quot;? I am not an expert in self-driving anything, but I don&#x27;t see captchas of video from driving, I don&#x27;t see stills that are half-obscured by snow, I don&#x27;t see nighttime pics, I don&#x27;t see weird corner cases like a van with a decal of a cyclist etc.<p>Why don&#x27;t we see captchas that seem more likely to be useful to creating datasets relevant to the more challenging problems?
评论 #29840281 未加载
评论 #29843694 未加载
duxup超过 3 年前
I always assumed it is used to have humans validate choices made my AI &#x2F; imagine recognition software.<p>Thus the occasional wrong “correct” answers.
llarsson超过 3 年前
It&#x27;s somewhat worrying that &quot;prove you are not a computer&quot; consists of the very same tasks we expect computers to excel at if we are to get self-driving vehicles.
评论 #29839637 未加载
评论 #29839844 未加载
评论 #29843168 未加载
cinntaile超过 3 年前
I have had images where you were teaching the neural network a wrong answer. You could see what it was they wanted me to recognize but it was wrong.
评论 #29839581 未加载
hnburnsy超过 3 年前
Love the Geico commercial where the Robot gets frustrated by a captcha and asks &#x27;what is an overpass?&#x27;<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ispot.tv&#x2F;ad&#x2F;qzJi&#x2F;geico-too-many-robot-tests" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ispot.tv&#x2F;ad&#x2F;qzJi&#x2F;geico-too-many-robot-tests</a>
mabbo超过 3 年前
These products have a goal of protecting sites from bots that can guess the answer. They have a financial incentive to present the most effective filter: ones that AIs can&#x27;t seem to get through but real humans can.<p>This makes me think: It must be hard for AI to guess what is and is not a bus right now, but most humans <i>do</i> know what a bus looks like and can pick one from a photo.<p>But with concerted effort and years of research by our finest minds, we <i>will</i> make an AI that can detect whether something is a bus or not, and then we&#x27;ll be asked something different instead.
bigyellow超过 3 年前
Because that&#x27;s what helps train AI to recognize targets (for military and commercial purposes). All captcha is is a free ML training for companies, it has nothing to do with any security.
egberts1超过 3 年前
For once, I want to see NSFW Captchas.
评论 #29839999 未加载
rdtwo超过 3 年前
They also do cats. Honestly I think boats abs busses are just harder problems. A lot of the boats can only be identified because there is water in the photo or some other hint that it’s a boat. A lot of the trains look like busses and got need contextual clues to tell them apart.
Slix超过 3 年前
I assumed that it&#x27;s because hCaptcha understands the location of a photo and so has extra context for it. A photo of a vehicle taken in the ocean must be a boat. But a human or robot looking at the photo doesn&#x27;t have the same context.
chrxr超过 3 年前
My small act of rebellion is to select exactly one incorrect cell each time.
hollander超过 3 年前
At times I get so mad at these things, especially when I have to do 5 of them in a row. Then at some point I just start clicking the wrong images over and over. One captcha should be all it takes.
评论 #29843126 未加载
fault1超过 3 年前
Training image classifiers?
redleader55超过 3 年前
I assume the system works by matching answers from humans eager to prove their &quot;humanity&quot; by giving correct answers. What if we would all collude to give wrong answers?
blarg1超过 3 年前
it keeps asking me to click the images with john connor.
anigbrowl超过 3 年前
Probably being used to train driving&#x2F;navigation models. Get worried if they start asking you to identify things based on satellite photos.
chimen超过 3 年前
I just hit the back button when I encounter such a website hosted by Cloudflare this way.
pixiemaster超过 3 年前
helping AI train target recognition for military applications probably
评论 #29842210 未加载
sys_64738超过 3 年前
Can&#x27;t AI be leveraged to get around these automatically?
评论 #29842576 未加载
transitory_pce超过 3 年前
This Google&#x27;s internet. You just play in it.
dmix超过 3 年前
It also asks for motorcycles and bikes.<p>The obvious answer as others have pointed out is they are selling it to self driving car companies like Waymo.
Shadonototra超过 3 年前
they are probably training models for self driving cars&#x2F;boats