TE
科技回声
首页24小时热榜最新最佳问答展示工作
GitHubTwitter
首页

科技回声

基于 Next.js 构建的科技新闻平台,提供全球科技新闻和讨论内容。

GitHubTwitter

首页

首页最新最佳问答展示工作

资源链接

HackerNews API原版 HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 科技回声. 版权所有。

Germany doesn't rule out closing Telegram – interior minister

86 点作者 dsnr超过 3 年前

25 条评论

odiroot超过 3 年前
The collective panic and Luddism about Telegram in Germany is really scary. I watch Tagesschau (probably most respected news show) every evening. Any time Telegram is mentioned it's always being attacked, as if it's only purpose was to enable crime and terrorism.
评论 #29905564 未加载
评论 #29905736 未加载
评论 #29905525 未加载
评论 #29905547 未加载
评论 #29905583 未加载
评论 #29905533 未加载
评论 #29906617 未加载
iqanq超过 3 年前
On an unrelated note - Telegram is already heavily censored on iPhones because of app store policies and the team refuses to put out an uncensored IPA file that we can sideload to our phones. If someone from the team reads this (I doubt it, since they are very disconnected from western media) please consider it. You already do it for Android!
评论 #29905716 未加载
评论 #29905618 未加载
评论 #29905543 未加载
评论 #29906383 未加载
评论 #29905593 未加载
oleg_antonyan超过 3 年前
They tried to block it in Russia in 2018. And failed miserably. Blocking entire subnets, millions of IP addresses on AWS, DigitalOcean and other providers, but Telegram servers can hope between different instances, so it ended up as wack-a-moll where thousands of innocents sites were blocked including some government-related services, banks, payment processing, my little startup project hosted on DO, but not Telegram
评论 #29906770 未加载
ryanar超过 3 年前
Germany banned Wolfenstein 3D when it came out in the 90s. What happened? Wolfenstein became one of the most viral games in Germany. If people want to get Telegram in Germany, they will one way or another.
评论 #29907808 未加载
VLM超过 3 年前
&quot;I want to ban the other guy&#x27;s political speech&quot; is business as usual for centuries even in the &quot;free&quot; west.<p>Whats new is &quot;I want to band all criticism of my religion&quot;, that aspect is new for the &quot;free&quot; west.
评论 #29905733 未加载
TacticalCoder超过 3 年前
550 MAU and growing fast. 7th most download iOS and Android app. All the <i>&quot;But WhatsApp, there&#x27;s nothing to do vs FB, they are too powerful&quot;</i> have to admit Telegram is quite the success story.
uniqueuid超过 3 年前
Ok, a lot of the points raised here come up all the time; maybe it helps if I summarize some more of them:<p>- Argument: States cannot ban&#x2F;close platforms - sure they can, as soon as you kick an app off the app store it&#x27;s over for most of the users. That&#x27;s a severe step though, and could be legally contested; my personal opinion is that it&#x27;s realistic a court could deem a complete shutdown unconstitutional.<p>- Argument: This is censorship - not really, censorship in the German legal context means pre-control of messages before dissemination. The deal here is about implementing measures to follow German laws. Of course, in a wider sense, this is some sort of censorship mechanism which has some technical similarity with other infrastructures such as those in china. But that&#x27;s the tradeoff in Germany - it&#x27;s restricting free speech to protect pro-democratic elements. Whether that works or not is going to be an important question in the next years.
评论 #29905664 未加载
评论 #29911444 未加载
uniqueuid超过 3 年前
This will be interesting.<p>Some background for the discussion:<p>- Germany has a different take on freedom of speech from the US. There are things that you cannot say (holocaust denial, inciting racial violence). We can argue about this, but it&#x27;s deeply ingrained in the legal system and unrealistic to change<p>- Germany has a special law regulating responsibilities and content moderation in social media (NetzDG, think section 230 but wider). This law - among other things - mandates content moderation and cooperation with law enforcement<p>- A key point in the debate surrounding Telegram is the question of whether or not it is a &quot;platform&quot;, that is an open social network. Telegram argues that it&#x27;s a messenger, but in practice, there are many open and public groups used for public debates. So Germany argues that it should be regulated in accordance with the NetzDG, which Telegram denies.<p>- Recently, there have been a number of death threats and criminal conspiracies which were orchestrated via Telegram; on top, a huge chunk of covid deniers and co are active in this space.<p>- Telegram so far has not cooperated at all (in contrast with other social platforms, even TikTok).<p>So in essence, this is currently a battle about the German government saying: Look here, you got a bunch of criminals and terrorists (literally, with weapons) on your platform, you need to do something about it.<p>[edit] Here is a report on the assassination plot and subsequent raids: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.euronews.com&#x2F;2021&#x2F;12&#x2F;15&#x2F;german-police-launch-raids-in-dresden-over-alleged-anti-vax-death-threats-to-governor" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.euronews.com&#x2F;2021&#x2F;12&#x2F;15&#x2F;german-police-launch-rai...</a>
评论 #29905524 未加载
评论 #29905597 未加载
评论 #29905532 未加载
评论 #29905651 未加载
评论 #29905754 未加载
评论 #29905577 未加载
评论 #29905795 未加载
评论 #29905491 未加载
评论 #29905903 未加载
评论 #29905493 未加载
评论 #29905763 未加载
beardedman超过 3 年前
You&#x27;ve had censorship in Germany for a very long time now, but I don&#x27;t think people like to think of it as censorship. You (literally) can land up in jail for verbalising certain things. IMO, the scary part is how positively people view this, like it&#x27;s a feature (and then proceed to talk about the CCP or Russia like they are stuck in the mid 1500&#x27;s).
评论 #29906781 未加载
EGreg超过 3 年前
Another example of how centralized messengers are more vulnerable than decentralized, end-to-end encrypted networks, where anyone can run a client.<p>To clarify how regular people could get access to a client… any https website could host a front end widget, for instance. Easy delivery via web browser (which is general-purpose enough that it can’t ban all possible widgets and hard to ban).
sebow超过 3 年前
Good luck to Germany in this futile approach.Also, what happened to WhatsApp,Wickr, or even Facebook?Those have been aswell used in terrorist attacks years ago when the crisis hit Germany, UK, and France more than the rest of the continent.Suddenly they&#x27;re not a problem at all, we only need to ban something when it&#x27;s going against the current narrative.
bpmayer超过 3 年前
Let&#x27;s ban the good old mail service. There are many nasty and unpleasant people who use paper.
hnbad超过 3 年前
This doesn&#x27;t clarify what &quot;shutdown&quot; means. The last thing I heard was pressuring Google to remove it from the Play Store in Germany but this sounds like it could also mean a DNS block (which notably doesn&#x27;t prevent traffic to the IP addresses).
hamilyon2超过 3 年前
Does Apple comply is some judge rules that telegram app should be deleted from devices?<p>Does Germany have legal and technical means to block the web version, web.telegram.org ?
taubek超过 3 年前
You shutdown one app, people move to another one. I don&#x27;t see how could this work.
评论 #29905819 未加载
mschuster91超过 3 年前
German here.<p>While I <i>do</i> agree with her that something must be done about Telegram given that criminal activity including Holocaust denial and plotting murder of governors [1] can go on there without any moderation while requests for providing IP addresses and other user data are being routinely ignored by the service, she is falling into the same trap as many interior politicians do and thinks that the solution is <i>primarily</i> to put pressure on Telegram.<p>It would be better to put police pressure on the ringleaders and participators of such Telegram channels. They are often enough known by clear name and march on the streets so they can be arrested there, but that requires actual effort from a police force that is already under suspicion of far-right infiltration.<p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.tagesschau.de&#x2F;inland&#x2F;kretschmer-drohung-razzia-103.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.tagesschau.de&#x2F;inland&#x2F;kretschmer-drohung-razzia-1...</a>
blackbear_超过 3 年前
Great, what am I gonna use on the pinephone now?!
amelius超过 3 年前
Makes sense. After closing down their nuclear plants, Germany is now completely dependent on Russian gas. They don&#x27;t want to be dependent on Russian telecom as well.
estranhosidade超过 3 年前
We are also having this discussion here in Brazil, some supreme court minister is all fussy and triggered because telegram doesn&#x27;t bans &quot;&quot;misinformation&quot;&quot; and &quot;&quot;hate speech&quot;&quot;.
评论 #29906040 未加载
kybernetyk超过 3 年前
yeah, that&#x27;s going to work. just like outlawing porn sites that wouldn&#x27;t use a german age verification system ;)
评论 #29905602 未加载
throw8932894超过 3 年前
Where is antifa when you need them :)
323超过 3 年前
Not just Germany, a lot of very respectable publications are worried about Telegram:<p>&gt; <i>White supremacists openly organize racist violence on Telegram, report finds</i><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;edition.cnn.com&#x2F;2020&#x2F;06&#x2F;26&#x2F;tech&#x2F;white-supremacists-telegram-racism-intl&#x2F;index.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;edition.cnn.com&#x2F;2020&#x2F;06&#x2F;26&#x2F;tech&#x2F;white-supremacists-t...</a><p>&gt; <i>Are Private Messaging Apps the Next Misinformation Hot Spot? Telegram and Signal, the encrypted services that keep conversations confidential, are increasingly popular. Our tech columnists discuss whether this could get ugly.</i><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2021&#x2F;02&#x2F;03&#x2F;technology&#x2F;personaltech&#x2F;telegram-signal-misinformation.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2021&#x2F;02&#x2F;03&#x2F;technology&#x2F;personaltech&#x2F;t...</a><p>&gt; <i>A report this week found that the messaging app had emerged as a central hub for several conspiracy movements espousing antisemitic tropes and memes, including QAnon, as well as others on the extreme right promoting violence.</i><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.washingtonpost.com&#x2F;technology&#x2F;2021&#x2F;01&#x2F;15&#x2F;parler-telegram-chat-apps&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.washingtonpost.com&#x2F;technology&#x2F;2021&#x2F;01&#x2F;15&#x2F;parler-...</a><p>&gt; <i>Far-right groups move online conversations from social media to chat apps — and out of view of law enforcement</i><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;uk-news&#x2F;2021&#x2F;oct&#x2F;14&#x2F;telegram-warned-of-nurturing-subculture-deifying-terrorists" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;uk-news&#x2F;2021&#x2F;oct&#x2F;14&#x2F;telegram-war...</a><p>&gt; <i>In collaboration with anti-fascist research group the White Rose Society, the Guardian has tracked McLean’s activity through the rabbit warren of largely unregulated Telegram groups and found that he describes a vastly different version of his intentions.</i><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;australia-news&#x2F;2021&#x2F;mar&#x2F;26&#x2F;where-freedom-meets-the-far-right-the-hate-messages-infiltrating-australian-anti-lockdown-protests" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;australia-news&#x2F;2021&#x2F;mar&#x2F;26&#x2F;where...</a><p>&gt; <i>Why right-wing extremists’ favorite new platform is so dangerous. Telegram’s lax content moderation and encrypted chats make it a convenient tool for extremists. </i><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.vox.com&#x2F;recode&#x2F;22238755&#x2F;telegram-messaging-social-media-extremists" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.vox.com&#x2F;recode&#x2F;22238755&#x2F;telegram-messaging-socia...</a>
评论 #29905831 未加载
评论 #29906071 未加载
评论 #29920515 未加载
评论 #29905787 未加载
mantas超过 3 年前
Send dissent back to kitchens.
dntRa超过 3 年前
This should remind people that the SPD (&quot;Social&quot; Democrats) is an authoritarian party that is nicknamed &quot;the traitor party&quot; for repeatedly backstabbing its voters.<p>Schroeder has destroyed the welfare state, increased reliance on Russia&#x27;s natural gas and got a job at Gazprom after he retired from politics.<p>I&#x27;m sure that Putin will be very glad to shut down Telegram as well.<p>Same as in the U.S., liberals in Germany are very happy to spread COVID-19 misinformation:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.washingtonpost.com&#x2F;politics&#x2F;2022&#x2F;01&#x2F;08&#x2F;sotomayors-false-claim-that-over-100000-children-are-serious-condition-with-covid&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.washingtonpost.com&#x2F;politics&#x2F;2022&#x2F;01&#x2F;08&#x2F;sotomayor...</a>
kkjjkgjjgg超过 3 年前
Maybe they could license the Great Firewall from China, they have many years of experience with that kind of thing.<p>While they are at it, they could look into other fancy tech from China, for example video surveillance that checks if people conform to Corona rules.<p>After all, why not - China seems to be so successful, what could go wrong?
评论 #29905501 未加载
评论 #29905952 未加载
评论 #29905470 未加载