TE
科技回声
首页24小时热榜最新最佳问答展示工作
GitHubTwitter
首页

科技回声

基于 Next.js 构建的科技新闻平台,提供全球科技新闻和讨论内容。

GitHubTwitter

首页

首页最新最佳问答展示工作

资源链接

HackerNews API原版 HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 科技回声. 版权所有。

Tell HN: Stop Accepting Shitty Interviews

136 点作者 chrisaycock超过 3 年前
There was a long discussion on HN the other day regarding why companies are having trouble hiring engineers:<p>https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=29892437<p>One of the recurring themes is the &quot;leet code&quot; interviews. I will go further and say that any interview that doesn&#x27;t mimic the job is a guaranteed way for me to turn the company down.<p><i>Stop accepting shitty interviews</i><p>When I was talking to trading firms about coming back to the finance industry, about half of them admitted they already use my open-source software. And yet, only one firm bothered to ask me about how some of my stuff was implemented. That&#x27;s the firm I&#x27;m working at now.<p>Instead, I got plenty of firms that still insisted on asking me questions that are not remotely related to the job. Tons of Hacker Rank and Codility, even though I&#x27;ve never had a time limit when building something in real life. Tons of intern-level questions as if I was a college freshman. And tons of detailed questions about how a specific programming language works, as if we&#x27;re going to build a compiler for that language.<p>And to reiterate, those were the firms that already admitted to using my software!<p><i>Stop accepting shitty interviews</i><p>The stupid assessment practices won&#x27;t change unless employers suffer the consequences for this nonsense. I have always made it my mission to reject any firm that asks me syntax questions or brain teasers. (Seriously, the New York Times doesn&#x27;t assess journalists by having them conjugate verbs; it&#x27;s just weird to ask this.)<p>Yes, people get mad when I terminate the interview on the spot. I&#x27;m sure I&#x27;ve been blacklisted from a few places because of my stubbornness. But damn if I&#x27;m going to allow stupid shit like this.<p><i>Stop accepting shitty interviews</i>

37 条评论

friedman23超过 3 年前
&gt; Stop accepting shitty interviews<p>Why should I stop? My personal experience is that many of the best companies to work for have shitty interviews. All I need to do is to study a bit and go through a 5 hour interview and I have a cushy high paying job? Sign me up. Complaining about interviews is missing the forest from the trees, I don&#x27;t spend the majority of my working life interviewing, I spend it working. So if preparing a lot for interviews and getting my ego bruised a little means I get a good job so be it.
评论 #29930894 未加载
评论 #29930885 未加载
评论 #29931276 未加载
评论 #29930881 未加载
评论 #29930868 未加载
novok超过 3 年前
In interview design there are a lot of trade offs.<p>Coding something quick within an hour? &quot;It&#x27;s too time constrained.&quot;<p>Take home interview question? &quot;It takes way too long for the busy professional who already has a job, and plus, even if we time constrain it, they&#x27;ll put way more time in. Or they&#x27;ll cheat with friends.&quot;<p>Ask to see previous code? &quot;Many good candidates do not do open source and couldn&#x27;t tell us what they work on in detail due to NDAs.&quot;<p>Don&#x27;t use automated interviewing for initial rounds? &quot;We are wasting a lot of expensive engineering time on poor results&quot;<p>Just ask about work experience and make a subjective call? &quot;We don&#x27;t know if they actually know how to code, and it&#x27;s way too random, prone to bias and opens us to lawsuits.&quot;<p>Use different interview methods for different candidates? See above<p>Watch over a person live code? &quot;Too anxiety provoking&quot;. Don&#x27;t? &quot;How about cheating?&quot;<p>Trial to work for 2 weeks? &quot;Immigrants cannot do that, and people wont leave their stable job for an unsure offer. So only the unemployed could do it, and why are they unemployed?&quot;<p>etc, etc<p>Also there is the entire mountain of going over glacial HR departments and getting them to change their interview processes.<p>I agree leetcode is shit and I made it a personal mission to change the processes at work to remove the leetcode and add more work sample interviewing, but it&#x27;s difficult!
评论 #29931954 未加载
评论 #29931186 未加载
评论 #29932235 未加载
majormajor超过 3 年前
So what do you propose as a replacement?<p>In your case, they should&#x27;ve certainly dug into your open source, at least if it was directly in their line of business.<p>I certainly love it when I ask a candidate &quot;tell me about a project you found interesting&quot; and they can go into details, talk about tradeoffs, etc. Sadly, most candidates <i>can&#x27;t</i>. They can&#x27;t come up with anything better than &quot;well I rewrote the thing, and it was challenging since I hadn&#x27;t used Kotlin before, learning Kotlin was interesting.&quot; So at that point I&#x27;m unimpressed, but I&#x27;ll give them a chance to code still because (a) not everybody has had opportunities to work on interesting stuff and (b) I wouldn&#x27;t have enough people to hire otherwise.<p>But if &quot;has open source software we use&quot; is the bar, you&#x27;re gonna fail a lot more good engineers than you would using algo questions.
评论 #29930827 未加载
评论 #29930932 未加载
评论 #29935639 未加载
hervature超过 3 年前
While I agree in principle, the average developer is not going to have released and maintained an open source project. Let alone one that is used. Let alone one that is widely used. People in your position should rightfully do that, you have all the leverage. Other people not so much, especially new graduates. I agree that having tasks that simulate the real environment is the goal but we also work in an industry that it is common place for productivity to only really start after 6 months. Thus, any interview is going to be some simulacrum of the real thing. Personally, I would like to see something like &quot;Make 10 commits to X open source project and we&#x27;ll talk&quot;. Make the world a better place while actually evaluating the candidate for job readiness. Both technically and behaviorally as you see how they behave in the community.
评论 #29931270 未加载
thurn超过 3 年前
People never talk about the most important metric for interviews: your <i>target rejection rate</i>. Google and Facebook <i>need</i> to do these interviews because of the number of applicants they get. Any process they design must definitionally reject 99% of people who go through it, and they found it is essentially impossible to hit that kind of rejection rate with just &#x27;tell me about your work&#x27; questions.<p>If your startup operates with a 50% or 75% target rejection rate, you absolutely can and should operate differently, and this could be an important competitive advantage for you.
评论 #29930790 未加载
评论 #29930916 未加载
评论 #29933827 未加载
评论 #29930876 未加载
jezclaremurugan超过 3 年前
I totally agree that asking people who created&#x2F;maintain&#x2F;make significant contributions to open source projects is a waste of time.<p>However, for hiring people who don&#x27;t have a public body of work to point to - it remains pretty effective. (I am not affiliated with hackerrank&#x2F;hackerearth&#x2F;codility - just been on the hiring side for the last many years)<p>Also, in my current org - we&#x27;ve been able to trust people lacking the &quot;expected&quot; graduate degrees - solely because they were able to prove their acumen in the interview by solving algo-data-structure problems. (Of course, we have to be creative here - and avoid like the plague the same bunch of questions which are present all over the web)
quanto超过 3 年前
On HN and elsewhere, there are so much deeply personalized emotions regarding LeetCode-style interviews. Instead of focusing on personal specifics, I am more curious about it from a social and systemic perspective.<p>1. If LeetCode problems are not only irrelevant, but actually turning away good employees, why aren&#x27;t more companies shunning LeetCode problems? Tech is a very competitive field, and in the current climate of low interest rate, we (at least in the West) have more money than talent available. An employer with non-LeetCode interviews would have a significant market advantage. Is Google (and Netflix) being completely stupid even with their rigorous introspective take on hiring? If LeetCode is terrible for both the employer and the employee, why is it so popular? Are we all cargo-culting?<p>2. What is a better solution? How do we know it&#x27;s better? There are proposed solutions, here and elsewhere, that make the candidates feel better about themselves, but for employers interested in hiring technically competent engineers, what is the solution? Requiring everyone to have a popular git repository?
评论 #29931667 未加载
评论 #29950105 未加载
Jensson超过 3 年前
For junior developers algorithm questions is a test of their technical talent. For senior developers algorithm questions is a test of their soft skills. Most companies are happy that it helps them filter out diva behavior.
anduru_h超过 3 年前
Not going to lie, I actually like Leetcode style interviews. What you put in is what you get - you know how to control your own outcomes, and that&#x27;s by putting in the time and work to study for the questions.
评论 #29930974 未加载
luhego超过 3 年前
I prefer interviews that ask leetcode questions because they are standard. I can prepare once and interview with multiple companies. The alternatives are take-home projects, pair-programming sessions which in my opinion are very subjective and more time-consuming.
vorticalbox超过 3 年前
This reminds me of a blog posted a while a go<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;joelgrus.com&#x2F;2016&#x2F;05&#x2F;23&#x2F;fizz-buzz-in-tensorflow&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;joelgrus.com&#x2F;2016&#x2F;05&#x2F;23&#x2F;fizz-buzz-in-tensorflow&#x2F;</a>
ravenstine超过 3 年前
Yup, there are countless employers looking to hire coders. If your spidey senses tingle, end the interview and move on to the next one.<p>I&#x27;ve got a little anecdote on an interview that I should have ended, but I was a junior so I didn&#x27;t really know better at the time.<p>At this interview, one of the things they wanted me to do was to do a series of one minute coding challenges. They weren&#x27;t leet code or anything, but just difficult enough that they required a lot of knowledge, and I wasn&#x27;t allowed to look up documentation. This one guy stood behind me and looked over my shoulder with a stop watch. After a minute was up, I had to put down the code I was writing and move on to the next one, and the process would repeat. I think I did about 12 of those. It was some of the most ridiculous bullshit I ever did in an interview. If you didn&#x27;t remember the exact array method off the top of your head then you were just screwed. Mind you, they were hiring for a junior position. These days there&#x27;s a possibility I&#x27;d survive it, but I wouldn&#x27;t even bother at this point.
评论 #29930830 未加载
macromagnon超过 3 年前
I have interviews lined up with google and coinbase which both are going to ask leet code style questions. I&#x27;m going to go through it just for the promise of more $.<p>Even if it is annoying to spend hours and not get an offer, I can see why they ask these types of questions to see your problem solving ability first hand.<p>I would expect any decent engineer to be able to solve leet code style question, or at the very least be able to model the problem reasonably well and give a recurrence. Even if the code contains errors or there&#x27;s missing edge cases then it allows you to see how someone approaches a problem.<p>Leet code style questions are basically a bunch of combinatorial algorithms. Even if they seem like a different trick each time there&#x27;s general techniques that can be used to approach each problem.
ipaddr超过 3 年前
You get to choose between a lot of factors when deciding where to apply:<p>Location, pay, workload, social aspects, stocks. Not to mention work environment, chance at promotion, career progression. Deciding on interviewing types can be part of the equation.<p>Changing employer&#x27;s tactics is not going to happen at the interview feedback level. This movement needs a gurus&#x2F;books and a cargo cult mantra which filters into magazine articles and popular culture.<p>You are better off going in a different direction and using this information to hire the best employees for your own company or offering a service that places your candidates in roles.
anandsuresh超过 3 年前
I understand and empathize with the sentiment here. Interviews have a skewed power-dynamic. A handful of people, or sometimes even a single person, can make or break your chances at what you feel is your dream job, and there is nothing you can do about it. It is an extremely frustrating place to be in, indeed.<p>I&#x27;ve had people with half my years of experience, ask questions that were likely from an algorithms course they took during their (under)grad school days, with little regard for its applicability to the role. These are the kinds of red flags I look for, and while I am yet to walk out of an interview, I do make it a point to provide feedback to the recruiter, along with my decision to withdraw from the process.<p>It is also pretty telling when a company fails to account for the candidate&#x27;s experience. At best, it shows a lack of experience with recruiting; at its worst, it is a good indicator of poor culture. Having a person with 10+ years of experience write a quick-sort algorithm is unlikely to produce a good result; mostly because any engineer with that kind of experience would not really write a sort function by hand, unless working on a very low-level system (and even those are mature enough to have an optimized sort function readily available for use).<p>Like interviewing, conducting an interview is a skill that needs to be developed, and any good company would take measures to ensure it does a good job of it. Recruiting, after all, is a pretty expensive affair.<p>You&#x27;ve likely dodged a bullet there. Count your blessings, and move on to greener pastures. :)
baggy_trough超过 3 年前
I still like to ask somebody if they can code a basic algorithm just to see if they can code at all.
62951413超过 3 年前
It was common ten years ago. It was still possible in 2015 or so, at least in &quot;B-round startups&quot;. I was still asked about my relevant previous experience. In hindsight, I believe people like me who ended up in companies like that were already trading down significantly. Or I have never been as smart as I thought.<p>My experience in the last year or so categorically states that leetcoding is the only game in town in CA. I hate it, I am bad at it, I find it humiliating and irrelevant. I was told by Asian teenagers that I am not good at coding after 20 years building software. I have failed multiple interviews because of dynamic programming&amp;Co even at companies where I had a decade of highly relevant experience. Nobody ever wanted to hire me for my production experience with all of Scala&#x2F;Kotlin&#x2F;Java even though I routinely meet companies where they don&#x27;t use Scala&#x2F;Kotlin because of hiring difficulties.<p>It&#x27;s just the way it is nowadays. The world is getting progressively crazy. If you&#x27;re in a position to not accept such interviews I envy you big time. I don&#x27;t see it happening even in smaller (i.e. not-FAANG compensation) companies though. Some European&#x2F;remote companies occasionally give you a home coding challenge. But they are an exception.
invalidname超过 3 年前
I think this is a matter for the interviewer to solve. Smart ones should take advantage of this situation and grab the better developers that don&#x27;t pass those stupid interviews. I posted this in comments before since it pretty much echos my thoughts on the matter: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;talktotheduck.dev&#x2F;debugging-the-technical-interview-methods-and-cheating" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;talktotheduck.dev&#x2F;debugging-the-technical-interview-...</a>
baby超过 3 年前
Reminds me of people who complain about dating. Dating was bad, at least before tinder, yet complaining didn’t improve much about your situation.
ngc248超过 3 年前
I myself am not pro-leetcode, but I see the advantages of leetcode from both the interviewer and the interviewee side.<p>From the interviewee side: It gives you a known set of material to prepare for (ofc there may be newer questions). But this alone helps a lot. With the explosion of frameworks, libraries, languages it is very hard to prepare for everything.<p>From the interviewer side: Again it will give you a standardized set of questions which can be asked and you can compare across candidate due to this.<p>&gt;&gt; about half of them admitted they already use my open-source software<p>Similar to how people don&#x27;t have time to prepare for leetcode, there may also be people who don&#x27;t have github repos with open source code etc. Take my case, I work for a company where I have to get permissions if i am gonna start a open source project, even though it may not be related at all to my current work.
评论 #29930820 未加载
评论 #29930869 未加载
评论 #29930821 未加载
irvingprime超过 3 年前
I somewhat agree. I&#x27;ve been through a lot of terrible interviews. The last year or so I&#x27;ve started walking away when they get too annoying. For example, I refuse take home exercises. I used to do them, I don&#x27;t anymore. Too much work to do on spec.<p>But everything involves trade offs. By being very selective of what I will put up with during the process, I&#x27;ve lost some opportunities. If I NEEDED a job, I would suddenly be much more tolerant.<p>Either way, I don&#x27;t see the industry as a whole learning to interview better. When I refuse a particular exercise, or drop right out of the process, they don&#x27;t blame themselves. They just move on to hazing the next candidate and hope for the best.
kra34超过 3 年前
This would basically preclude anybody from interviewing at the FANGs. I believe they have all adopted the Google style leetcode college level trivia questions, completely divorced from the realities of the job. Their processes are so tightly controlled and the duties of the job so far removed from the interview process that I can&#x27;t imagine what would happen even if you successfully navigated to a job offer.<p>&quot;Oh congratulations, you made it! You won&#x27;t see any of the people you interviewed with ever again. You&#x27;ll be placed on 1 of 3 teams that do things we&#x27;ve never spoken to you about. I&#x27;m sure you are going to love it here!&quot;
dasil003超过 3 年前
I sympathize but I&#x27;m not sure this is the hill to die on. As a potential employee I&#x27;m looking for the best company to join for myself, and the likelihood that I will enjoy working somewhere has very little correlation to their recruiting&#x2F;interviewing practices. So if I want to work somewhere I&#x27;ll jump through their hoops (within reason), but I&#x27;ll also be keeping an eye out for red flags from engineers and managers I talk to, because the downside of an annoying interview that is not to my taste pales in comparison to the downside of accepting a job and then discovering the work environment is a tire fire.
tiktok8532342超过 3 年前
Too bad you didn&#x27;t record your interviews. I bet if you bailed on a shitty interview from a high profile company, it&#x27;d go viral. Could be much more effective than pleading with people to stop accepting shitty interviews.
chrismcb超过 3 年前
What is a &quot;shitty&quot;interview? I certainly hope you don&#x27;t mean a whiteboard interview where you are asked to solve and code a small problem? Probably the best type of interview our industry can give What is a &quot;mimic the job&quot;interview? How do you do the in 45 minutes? Using tools the interviewee may never have seen? I think asking a few coding questions is the best interview.
jhatemyjob超过 3 年前
I used to believe in this dogma, I thought I was &quot;too good&quot; to practice brain teasers. It set my career back by years. We don&#x27;t live in a utopia. Tech jobs aren&#x27;t a meritocracy. If you want to work on cool stuff and get paid proportionally then start your own company. Otherwise it&#x27;s best if you accept that tech recruiting is really fucked up, and just play this shitty game.
eyelidlessness超过 3 年前
I accept very few interviews at all, so sniffing out shitty ones ahead of time isn’t particularly intuitive for me. But I can say of the two worst ones, I very nearly walked out on one, and did walk out on the other. I regretted not walking on the first one and didn’t regret walking the next one. The first was a FAANG, the second … should be in the acronym.
sweettea超过 3 年前
The point of a leetcode style question is to test someones&#x27; ability to explain and adapt a tricky problem on the fly. Given most of a software engineer&#x27;s day to day is about communication and adapting existing solutions to related problems, leetcode problems are a very powerful tool for analyzing candidates.
评论 #29930835 未加载
评论 #29930810 未加载
anonygler超过 3 年前
Better advice: Leetcode is easy as shit. Suck up your pride and be good at it. You’ll rake in money getting companies to fight over you. I had a $670k offer that’s appreciated to $1m&#x2F;yr. The company I joined didn’t ask LC, but it still mentally prepared me for the questions I got.
评论 #29930966 未加载
评论 #29931287 未加载
ramesh31超过 3 年前
It&#x27;s nice if you don&#x27;t have to but I&#x27;m a mediocre engineer with no degree and no open source work. I have to take what I can get.
light_hue_1超过 3 年前
&gt; One of the recurring themes is the &quot;leet code&quot; interviews<p>What makes these &quot;shitty&quot; interviews? They&#x27;re very simple and they test for your ability to write code.<p>They set the bar clearly and you have the ability to study for them with ease. Solve 200 of these problems once in your life and you&#x27;ll never have an issue again. You&#x27;ll breeze through all of these interviews.<p>Compared to the alternative, where people ask insane unrelated questions and that are incredibly subjective, these aren&#x27;t all that bad.
评论 #29930865 未加载
评论 #29932180 未加载
评论 #29931195 未加载
评论 #29930862 未加载
评论 #29930836 未加载
评论 #29931108 未加载
评论 #29930925 未加载
tommiegannert超过 3 年前
<i>&quot;Past performance is no guarantee of future results.&quot;<p>I&#x27;ll predicate this with: there are lots of shitty interviews, but I don&#x27;t think it&#x27;s because they ask you to reverse linked lists. It&#x27;s because the interviewers don&#x27;t know what questions they&#x27;re trying to answer.<p>I&#x27;m coming up on 15 years of experience. I also feel like linked lists isn&#x27;t really that relevant for my day-to-day. However, I still think coding interviews can make sense no matter the level.<p>If I only asked you about the past, I would miss out on at least three crucial pieces of information for the general full-time software engineer:<p>1) Are you still able to do the gritty work? Perhaps you wrote a great piece of FOSS ten years ago, but you completely lost it after that got going. Now you&#x27;re managing PRs, but externally, it looks like you&#x27;re still doing it yourself, because you&#x27;re announcing the releases. This is useful even if I&#x27;m hiring you as a senior, and expecting you to mentor&#x2F;guide those who are just starting out with the gritty work.<p>2) </i>How* did you do the work? Was it luck, experience, genious? (Did you call a friend?) Can I give you a problem to solve, and feel confident you&#x27;ll ask if you don&#x27;t understand or think it&#x27;s a bad idea? I.e. how do you react to the unknown?<p>3) Can you communicate with others around you about new topics? Are we speaking the same language? Can I feel confident you understand when I tell you a linked list is a bad solution. If I hire you as a domain expert, this is obviously less crucial. Again, the question is about the daily unknown, not the story you&#x27;ve had the chance to rehearse. (And if your job is simply to reiterate the same things over and over, I should probably just buy a book.)<p>You can use technical expertise in two ways: getting things done yourself, or building rapport with those who do. I have interviewed &quot;seniors&quot; who I wouldn&#x27;t have wanted as mentors myself, because all they could do was talk. Lacking reasoning skills, or inclination to work together to get something solved.<p>That said, the focus should never be on the problem itself. It&#x27;s ephemeral, as everyone keeps saying. There shouldn&#x27;t be any gotchas or trick questions. The problem is just a way to get the conversation going. It must be small enough, and easily explained. When I only have 45 min at a Google interview, I don&#x27;t have time to explain a problem I&#x27;m <i>actually</i> working on. There&#x27;s too much domain knowledge required. Instead, I have to distill a problem I had in the past to something that&#x27;s interesting, but simple. That&#x27;s why we end up with reversing linked lists over and over again.<p>It shouldn&#x27;t matter if the problem is fully solved or not in the end, as long as the method is sound, and we understand each other. It doesn&#x27;t matter if we go on a tangent, as long as it&#x27;s enlightening. Also, I&#x27;d add that I don&#x27;t think programming interviews should be the only thing that&#x27;s happening, especially not for people with experience. They just happen to be the most contentious, and come up a lot in discussions.<p>(As someone who helped build Spotify&#x27;s tech recruitment pipeline, and having interviewed SRE&#x2F;SWE candidates at Google.)
jrs235超过 3 年前
The process appears to more like a hazing ritual. A form of tribalism.
cphoover超过 3 年前
What open source software did you write out if curiosity?
评论 #29930877 未加载
charcircuit超过 3 年前
Why should I have to make a good resume when that doesn&#x27;t mimic anything I&#x27;ll be doing on the job?<p>I suspect the answer to this question is the same as to why people do the same for interview questions.
Barrin92超过 3 年前
I personally like these questions a lot and I&#x27;ve used them in the past when I was tasked with hiring people because it basically boils down to a few things. One is that people who have a good grasp on algorithms, math or academic problems generally are pretty smart, and you can teach them practical coding skills very quickly while the reverse isn&#x27;t true. so it&#x27;s sort of like a IQ test.<p>Secondly it rewards people who at least put the effort in to prepare for an interview. These questions are a very reliable way to eliminate candidates.<p>And to take the journalism example, I actually think that&#x27;d make a pretty solid test because if a journalist doesn&#x27;t have a basic grasp on formal language I would have to reconsider how strongly they&#x27;re committed to their craft. It&#x27;s honestly only the case in software, an engineering discipline to boot, that people question the necessity of being able to solve basic theoretical problems. Would anyone trust a civil engineer who can&#x27;t answer first semester math questions?
评论 #29930942 未加载
评论 #29930997 未加载
评论 #29931800 未加载
评论 #29931268 未加载
lbrito超过 3 年前
Asking people to stop accepting interviews because they&#x27;re bad (which I agree they are) is a bit like asking people to stop using combustion-based car because it is bad for the environment. On an individual level, sure -- a few people might flat out decline such interviews as a matter of principle. But as a whole this kind of appeal hardly has any impact.<p>I rue the day that leetcode-style interviews became the norm, but I don&#x27;t think they&#x27;re going away any time soon. The incentives are just too strong. Leetcode style quizzes are a (yes, flawed, biased etc) somewhat reasonable proxy to coding skills, they cost very little to implement, scale easily etc. Personally I prefer take-home half-day projects, but its easy to see how absurdly impractical those are for larger companies.