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Algorithmic Trading is Not High Frequency Trading

140 点作者 fukumoto超过 13 年前

16 条评论

T_S_超过 13 年前
Accurate article? Yes I think so. Hairsplitting? A bit. Any content about the big picture? Afraid not.<p>Algo trading has been around longer than HFT. It was invented to protect the information that that a big order was being executed. This avoided the risk of front running by handing the order to humans or scaring liquidity providers by executing it all at once.<p>HFT came about when computerized exchanges began to compete with each other for business. Nowadays you go hunting for liquidity. Speed differentials are more important.<p>I think the OP is likely to agree up until here.<p>Today HFT in its worst form amounts to high speed computerized rumor mongering. You game the market by bluffing orders and trading faster than your customers. The regulators will never catch on and try to fix it even thought the remedies are many and simple. Moreover our attitudes about who owns information make it very difficult for us to even consider these simple solutions.
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sspencer超过 13 年前
For one who works with HFT systems, an extremely refreshing clarification.<p>Though I do get a chuckle out of the extremely bombastic stories ("MAN OBSOLETE? COMPUTERS TAKING OVER!!!"), it's nice to see the record set straight. Sadly this will get 1/10000th of the page views of the garbage articles it dissects.
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steve8918超过 13 年前
Absolutely terrible blog post. Saying algorithmic trading isn't HFT is like saying a bird isn't an ostrich.<p>HFT is a subset of algorithmic trading. It's as simple as that. Not all algorithmic trading is HFT. But all HFT is algorithmic trading.<p>Algorithmic trading is any type of trading done based on an algorithm, and not based on "traditional investing principles". For example, "buy when the 10-day moving average crosses over the 20-day MA, and sell when the 10-day it crosses below 20-day". One of the most famous types of this is Richard Dennis and the Turtle Traders, where a successful commodities trader took a bunch of ordinary people and tried to turn them into traders using this method.<p>I'm also an algorithmic trader. Not a wildly successful algorithmic trader yet, but I'm still learning and growing, and I love it more than any programming venture I've ever been involved with. And I haven't taken a catastrophic loss yet, so that's good. I trade on 3 separate markets using different algorithms, and for the most part it is fully automated. I'll hold futures contracts anywhere from 1 seconds to 20 mins.<p>HFT is several orders of magnitude more intense. For the most part, they are types of arbitrage, where they can arbitrage a few cents worth of difference in stock prices between different markets, and make a few pennies per 1000 shares. Or they will arbitrage between the price of an ETF or futures contract and the underlying basket of stocks that it represents. These are the ones that need colocation and trade on the millisecond. The more nefarious ones are the ones that game the system, by "quote stuffing", by frontrunning large orders by institutions, or by creating volatility through momentum-trading.<p>Is there a downside to algorithmic trading? Sure. Algorithmic trading is what has turned the stock market from a predictive market of future earnings, into essentially a casino, where the predictive nature of the markets is completely dead. Instead, it's about thousands of computers running random number generators and picking up nickels every 10 ms. This is why I believe there will be market crashes every 7-10 years, and long term investing is dead.<p>But unfortunately, this is the reality of the system that we live in, and we have to adapt or die. Or you can just buy bonds and get a stable 3-5% return every year, which is nothing to shake a stick at.
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eftpotrm超过 13 年前
From the article and other sources I've seen before, it seems that algorithmic trading is not necessarily high frequency, but that high frequency trading is necessarily algorithmic.<p>In which case is this not a rather thin hair to split?
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paperwork超过 13 年前
I always find it interesting how much vitriol there is against automated trading, even among programmers. Too many people seem to believe that a small number of, ultra resourceful, nefarious folks are using unfair means to "game the system." The truth, as usual, is less interesting.<p>Doing this type of trading doesn't require millions of dollars and teams of PhDs. You don't have to know the right people and you don't have to know any secret handshakes.<p>Critics of high frequency trading are almost always misinformed. Some of the most informed critiques I have read about this stuff are the following books:<p>"A Demon of Our Own Design: Markets, Hedge Funds, and the Perils of Financial Innovation" by Bookstaber<p>"Traders, Guns and Money: Knowns and unknowns in the dazzling world of derivatives" by Das<p>And Nasim Taleb's work.<p>------- More to the point, the author is explaining something very basic (which journalists don't seem to understand): -Algorithmic trading is NOT a general term for all trading done with algorithms/computers. It refers to telling a computer to EXECUTE a specific trade. In other words, when your retirement fund decides to buy A LOT of AAPL, they naturally need to spread that trade over the whole day (or even several days). In the old days, human traders used to do it. Now it is mostly done by computer programs.<p>This is different from the kind of trading where a computer decides WHAT to trade (NOT HOW to trade). This kind of trading involves so many different strategies that it is silly to lump them together.<p>There seem to be other misconceptions: -The best and the brightest are working in Finance, instead of doing things more beneficial to society.<p>A quant colleague of mine, who has a PhD in Physics from an Ivy League school told me that he, and many of his friends, left academia because there were simply no positions for them.<p>-75% of trading is now automated, it is just computers trading with each other.<p>I hope someone will correct me if I'm wrong but I have never figured out if this 75% includes algo trading. If it does include algo trading (my guess is that it does), then I'm surprised it is not 100%. That is like saying 95% of TV channels are controlled by remote-control devices.<p>-People seem to think that wall-street traders make their money by "trading ahead" of mom &#38; pop investors: your Dad buys 1000 shares of microsoft, a wily trader puts your dad's order on hold, buys it for himself, raises the price, sells his shares to your dad at a higher price...thereby making money off your dad.<p>Your broker is not allowed to 'trade-ahead' of you. At least in the places where I have worked, this is taken very seriously. Interestingly, high frequency traders (who are most frequently accused of this) don't actually have access to customer order-flow. High frequency trading hedge funds don't generally have any client orders. Places where the two co-exist are forced to have seperation. Traders from one department cannot share information with the other. As more and more client facing firms (sell-side) become automated, the chance of them actually coding up such cheats is even dumber.<p>Flash trading is often given as an example of people, in cahoots with exchanges, trading on others' order information. As far as I know, "flash" functionality exists to help clients trade more effectively. Large traders are VERY concerned about letting the whole market know that they are interested in some stock. Some exchanges offered the following functionality: if you are interested in buying a stock, you have the OPTION of giving other members of the exchange a chance to trade with you. If no one takes you up on the offer, then the order goes to the wider market.<p>I have to admit that a laywer friend told me that he opposes this functionality at his firm. If someone _really_ needs to know more, I suppose I could ask him to explain.<p>-High frequency traders trade so fast that mom &#38; pop simply can't compete with them. Their computers/networks are just too fast and they can get closer to the exchanges than anyone else.<p>High frequency traders are not competing with mom &#38; pop, they are competing with market makers. If two people hear a news item, the one closer to the exchange will naturally get the trade done faster (presumably at a better price). The same is (generally) true of people on the East Coast vs rest of the country (let's assume US financial system). The same is true of people who can click their mouse faster. Besides, there is no moral reason your Mom should be able to dump her Enron stock faster than Joe Trader.<p>etc., etc., etc. -------------<p>I should add that I am actually not at all comfortable with the role finance plays in world economy. I can't call myself a critic since being critical requires more complete understanding.<p>I am specifically opposed to things like direct market access. This is where any Joe Blow can use an API to setup his trading system. If he accidently leaves an infinite loop in his code, he can cause real problem. I remember sweating bullets (and almost trembling) when my boss asked me to flip the switch on the trading system I wrote. In reality, there are at least some protections built in to keep this from happening. However, I would like to see more uniform, consistent and better advertised rules.<p>I am also against the ability to trade by borrwing money from brokers (margin trading or leveraged trading). If an individual trader screws up, they wipe themselves out. If they borrowed money, then the consequences of their bad trades starts to seep out to others. If more than a handful of traders, trading on margin, go belly up, the lender could be in trouble as well...you can see how this could ripple across a system.<p>Closely related to allowing trading on margin is reliance on models. Say you have calculated that two stocks always move together. You _and your lender_ are so sure of this correlation that they think of it as the truth. What if your calculations or your assumptions were wrong? The consequences of this mistake may not be linearly related to the risk you thought you took. Read Nasim Taleb's work on this for more.<p>Finally, those who smell something fishy should broaden their concern beyond just modern trading system or even complex derivatives. I can see no principal, within the framework of free markets and individualism, which leads to condemnation of ever more automated and faster trading, more complex instruments and more dependence of finance. The best moral principal, I can think of, which opposes the current state of affairs, is the one uttered by Martin Sheen's character in the movie Wallstreet: "Create, instead of living off the buying and selling of others."<p>Wallstreet 2 was a piece of shit.
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littlegiantcap超过 13 年前
I'd argue that there's more good than bad about algorithmic trading. People making decisions based on fear and adrenaline is much more dangerous than setting a pre-determined course and sticking to a mathematical model. Besides, it's not like they just set up these programs and forget about them. If there's some sort of flaw in the algorithm the trader isn't just going to bang his head into the wall while he loses millions; he's going to fix the algorithm.
jackgavigan超过 13 年前
Approx 99% of what is written about algo and high-freq trading is written by people who don't have a clue, have never worked in a trading environment (let alone actually traded) and think they're some kind of expert because they've read an article or two. Just remeber that the next time you read an article (or a comment about an article) on algo/high-freq trading.
icandoitbetter超过 13 年前
This is wrong. Algorithmic trading can be fully automatic as well. It just doesn't need to operate on short time windows as HFT does.
joshu超过 13 年前
execution and portfolio construction are separate things.<p>you can do both algorithmically, or manually, or a mix.
seanos超过 13 年前
For those that are interested:<p>Here is a video of an extremely interesting talk, entitled "Human Traders are an Endangered Species!", by Dave Cliff who's involved with the Foresight project:<p><a href="http://trading-gurus.com/human-traders-are-an-endangered-species/" rel="nofollow">http://trading-gurus.com/human-traders-are-an-endangered-spe...</a><p>and more information on the Foresight project itself:<p><a href="http://www.bis.gov.uk/foresight/our-work/projects/current-projects/computer-trading" rel="nofollow">http://www.bis.gov.uk/foresight/our-work/projects/current-pr...</a>
Game_Ender超过 13 年前
Are there not hedge funds that attempt to use algorithms to spot longer term (ie. days, weeks, months) market trends and then buy and sell on that information? I think it's pretty crazy to say that humans will always make the decisions, computer can process more information faster then any human can. At some point computer programs will be able to make more accurate market predictions then humans, and at that point the "robots" really will be in control.
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flourpower超过 13 年前
Isn't the claim that algorithmic trading will never replace human decision making basically equivalent to the claim that humans will never construct strong AI?
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joezydeco超过 13 年前
In your opinion, Jeff, was the 2010 Flash Crash the work of HFT, or Algo trading? Maybe both?
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czDev超过 13 年前
by the way, the original article (now) opens with "Algorithmic trading, including high frequency trading (HFT)" and not "Algorithmic trading, also known as high frequency trading (HFT)"
known超过 13 年前
Why HFT is opposing Tobin tax?
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drstrangevibes超过 13 年前
I think the author is actually wrong on this algo trading is defined as programs taking the decision, how fast this happens determines whether it is high frequency. Computer aided execution is called smart order routing..... just saying :)