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Poll: Is the leetcode grind necessary to land a high paying remote job?

297 点作者 throwawaynay超过 3 年前
I live in western Europe.<p>I&#x27;ve worked for 4 different companies, for European salaries, without doing any leetcode type interviews(I ditched any company that was doing it), it was either take home tests about real problems, technical questions, or sometimes just trust in my abilities given my previous experiences.<p>I&#x27;ve never really trained for leetcode(or not consciously at least, I did do a bit of algorithms&#x2F;data structures of course), mostly because I know that I would panic and perform poorly in this kind of interview, so I don&#x27;t really see the point of practicing for that.(it&#x27;s not really about whether or not I can solve a hard leetcode problem, it&#x27;s about if I want to do it live in front of a recruiter, it make me anxious just to think about that and I don&#x27;t want to inflict that on myself), I&#x27;d much rather have a hard take home test than an easy leetcode interview.<p>+If I have to spend a few hundreds hours of hard work on something I&#x27;d much rather work on an useful and potentially profitable side-project, rather than on pointless problems already solved thousand&#x2F;millions of times.<p>Do you think grinding leetcode is an absolute necessity to land a good job at a company hiring worldwide remotely? I&#x27;d be aiming for salaries around 80-100k$. In my country the only companies paying that are FAANGs.<p>Thanks for your answers

98 条评论

cebert超过 3 年前
I believe leetcode is a way to skirt around discriminatory hiring practices. It’s not at all representative of most work environments. Some want to pretend they’re cognitive wizards, but many of the algorithms used to solve problems took years to develop. If you haven’t seen a particular problem before or had time to research it, it’s unrealistic to expect a candidate to solve it in twenty minutes in a high pressure situation. This process benefits individuals who have the luxury of time to spend preping. Something minorities, working parents, etc. don’t have.<p>I’ve been a software engineer and now architect for 15 years. Studying leetcode like problems won’t help me at my current job or a future employer once I get past their interview processes. What leetcode does do is make it difficult for minority candidates, those with external obligations, or those with families to get into firms. For example, I work 50+ hours a week with two kids and a parent with cancer. I work hard at work and have a lot of external obligations. I don’t have time or to study leecode problems.
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indymike超过 3 年前
I moved into running development at my company two years ago - and one thing I quickly learned is that I had to do some level of skill verification with job applicants. Why? Because many of the applicants I was interviewing could breeze through anything non-technical, and would do well if we stayed on the happy path (i.e. show me things you&#x27;ve built, tell me how this function you built works). When I asked them simple questions like, what type will this python expression return (and yes there was -&gt; int: in the signature, they would be incorrect.<p>So, I gave a few interviewees a code test, and they failed miserably. Mind you, nothing hard - it was a test can I give you a simple function to write, and can you 1) declare a function or class that accepts the right inputs, 3) does what the spec asks, and 3) has the correct output format. The test took 10 minutes to an hour, and was totally open book. The result was pretty staggering. 2&#x2F;3 of developers would fail the test, and not for esoteric reasons. They would fail because they used the wrong boolean operator, make simple type-casting mistakes, or fail to return data in the correct type (i.e. return a string and instead return a bool or an int). When they failed, it wouldn&#x27;t be just one thing, it would be two or three mistakes.<p>So, now I code test everyone, and it has nothing to do with your salary. If we expect you to program in your job, we will verify that you can actually string together 10-15 lines of code. I&#x27;ve only had a handfull of applicants call the test leetcode (I think it&#x27;s a lot simpler than that), but the reality is there are just a lot of people who can&#x27;t really code out there.
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evanspa超过 3 年前
I&#x27;m in my 40s doing the leetcode grind, but weird thing is, I&#x27;m actually ENJOYING it. I get a little high when I solve a problem, and I feel good about re-learning &#x2F; re-discovering data structures and algorithms that I just don&#x27;t use on a day-to-day basis. I paid for the premium version and enjoy reading the solutions and maybe learning a new trick or algorithm technique or whatnot. And who knows, maybe something that I learn when grinding on some leetcode problem will actually be useful in my day job? Thinking about it, if I ever do land a MAANG job, I don&#x27;t think I&#x27;ll stop doing leetcode problems. Sure, I won&#x27;t go crazy with it like I&#x27;m cramming for mid-terms or something, but I&#x27;ll still hack on them for the pure joy of problem solving, for the sake of problem solving.<p>I guess where I&#x27;m going with this is, maybe change your thinking about leetcode? Don&#x27;t think of it as a necessary evil in order to land a high paying job that you dread doing each night; look at it as a fun little hobby, with the nice side-effect that you&#x27;re keeping your data structure knowledge, algorithms and general problem solving skills sharp.
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torginus超过 3 年前
I never understood the hate Leetcode gets. Whenever you change jobs, chances are you&#x27;ll encounter some new technology you do not yet know. You&#x27;ll have to prepare for it. Algorithmic problem solving is like riding a bike, you only have to learn it once. While it&#x27;s possible that no one will write Kotlin in a decade, it&#x27;s very unlikely that knowing how to do a topological sort will go out of fashion.<p>The counter arguments often mentioned against Leetcode I often hear:<p>- You are often asked stuff that took PhDs years to figure out: This usually shows up only in Hard questions, and badly designed ones at that. In my experience, Medium ones are usually solvable with solid algorithmic knowledge. It is also usually that maximum difficulty people encounter during their work.<p>- It discriminates against women&#x2F;minorities: I don&#x27;t live in a very diverse country, so I don&#x27;t know anything about the minorities part, but in my career, I&#x27;ve encountered plenty of women who were as good or better than men in solving algorithmic issues. It does filter people, because it&#x27;s designed to filter people, but I&#x27;ve never found it discriminatory along gender lines.<p>- It discriminates against poor people: You&#x27;re a programmer, you are not poor. Even if you were, the few weeks of time investment it requires is usually offset by the higher salary you can ask for. Think of it as an investment in your future. Or if you are not a programmer, the amount of skills you need to learn to get your first programming job is usually far excess of just learning leetcode.
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Nextgrid超过 3 年前
100k$ is an achievable target without Leetcode. Freelancing&#x2F;contracting will get you there. Frankly, contracting in London nets you 120k£ pre-tax easily, and contracting via a limited company means you can significantly reduce your tax exposure.<p>Beyond that is a bit tricky. It&#x27;s not impossible, and you can land a high-paying job at a startup or established non-tech company (established <i>tech</i> outside of FAANG is usually terrible pay-wise) through your network or recruiters, but the workload might be higher.<p>The advantage of FAANG is that beyond the initial LeetCode grind and the relative mundaneness&#x2F;uselessness of the work (are you really passionate about littering the world with even more advertising?), it being such a huge company means that once past the initial grind you can lay back and still enjoy a very good paycheck for lower effort than in a smaller company which actually produces useful output beyond advertising.
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me_me_mu_mu超过 3 年前
Here&#x27;s my opinion as a well paid west-coast software engineer.<p>Leetcode is literally gatekeeping to boost the egos of people whose entire identity is that they work at a FAANG. You have probably met such people - I remember these types from high school and college who could memorize a bunch of shit and regurgitate it. Beyond that, I&#x27;ve found maybe 25% of them are good team mates&#x2F;leaders. They go home, update their bios to read &quot;Stanford CS, Ex-Apple, ex-Meta, now Noogler&quot;, and hang out with other similar types.<p>I&#x27;ve been on interview panels before, and while I prefer administrating the systems design interview, I&#x27;ve also had to administer coding. The way it goes is like this - half have this stuff memorized because they took a FAANG interviewing bootcamp or spent 6 hours a day for 3 months grinding leetcode. The other half are split into another half - one half that struggles but manages to do decently with guidance, and another half that just fails outright due to nerves, lack of knowledge, etc.<p>Here&#x27;s the weird, anecdotal experience though - of the people who absolutely kill the coding interviews, maybe half will do well in systems design. They struggle at explaining concepts on the fly, or cannot come up with reasonable solutions. Maybe it is a lack of imagination, because I really do think a lot of people just memorize and get ahead. Then they hit a ceiling, or fly just at the max ceiling while boasting &quot;ex-Facebook, ex-Apple, etc.&quot;
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quanto超过 3 年前
Leetcode is not an &#x27;absolute necessity&#x27;. Many firms do timed homework (I have seen anywhere from 90-min to 3-day time limits). I personally have not observed any statistical correlation between salary level and leetcode requirements; or know of any data studies on this.<p>That said, I have seen that even those firms without rigorous leetcode rounds have mini-leetcode questions during onsite that are the easiest of the easy leetcode problems; e.g. find the sum of an array of ints, find a duplicate item in an array, etc. So, I don&#x27;t think you can avoid these questions completely, but at the same time, summing up an array seems like a fair sanity check for dev applicants. I saw one programmer (PhD!) from a Top-3 school in Europe that could not find a maximum value in an array. So, yes, some sanity checks, but I don&#x27;t think this is what you are concerned about.<p>All those examples I mentioned above pay above (some <i>well above</i>) 150k USD TC.
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golondon超过 3 年前
Speaking for London, if you would like to have £180K+ FAANG or Hedge Funds &#x2F; Trading is your only option and unfortunately they ask leetcode questions. Some of them go crazy and ask hard, some like Facebook ask easy &#x2F; mid but want you to be quickly come up with the answer.<p>There are eng offices of soon to be IPO&#x27;d startups such as Stripe or Intercom in London, those don&#x27;t ask something you don&#x27;t do in your day to day job, however comp at this stage would be base + maybe bonus + stock options. You can never know when that stock option will turn into something, so in a way it&#x27;s even worse than lottery, at least in lottery you know the date to check if you get rich or not.<p>There have been few IPOs from London startups like Deliveroo, but I would say they perform pretty badly and things are not going well for people who relied on the return from there.<p>So, I would say Yes to this. Unfortunately.
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Nihilartikel超过 3 年前
Disclaimer, I haven&#x27;t leetcoded - though I kicked around topcoder a long time ago.<p>Leetcode probably has value - but the real value isn&#x27;t in your scores. The scores are a heuristic grade for algorithm capability maybe. And it makes sense that hiring parties would take it into consideration. The real value lies in what you learn from completing the challenges. I don&#x27;t think there&#x27;s much value in being able to &#x27;invert the binary tree&#x27; or implement a hash table from scratch. Nobody should do that professionally unless they&#x27;re trying to push ahead the state of the art in that field.<p>BUT knowing about algorithm X,Y,or Z, and its performance characteristics and having that in your toolbox to solve real world problems is the difference between an engineer that spins their wheels for a week before solving a problem badly, and one that doesn&#x27;t break a sweat making a correct and performant solution. A portfolio of algorithms and their strengths in you&#x27;re &#x27;inmem cache&#x27; is crucial if you want to move to roles more advanced than hocking json blobs between the frontend and DB.<p>I consult and typically find myself working on problems that the in-house team hasn&#x27;t been able to work out, and very often I walk in on messes of nested loops and O(n^3) functions, when all it would have taken is judicious use of a Heap here, a Dict there (it&#x27;s surprising how often a linear search over a list rather than a O(1) hashtable is used in some circles), or maybe a Trie or two. These aren&#x27;t esoteric academic things, they are the abstract building blocks needed to solve real problems.<p>So, I digress, but: use LeetCode, work on open source, build challenging things and hang with a crowd that knows more than you and watch what they do closely.<p>Seek to grow your power and capability, not your credentials. If you grow as a developer then the credentials will come automatically. And if a potential employer can&#x27;t tell the difference between a stone-cold competent programmer and somebody who just has a lot of acronyms on their CV, then they probably don&#x27;t have much to teach you anyway.
andrew_超过 3 年前
Three years ago I started rejecting interviews that included banal code challenges unrelated to the positions, leetcode, and hackerrank stuff. Basically anything involving Coderpad et al.<p>The result in a 40% increase in total comp and having worked for some very high quality folks and with extremely pleasant folks. My job satisfaction has never been higher.
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jermeh超过 3 年前
I just wrapped up the interview process and got a job offer at &gt;150k with 4 years of experience. I interviewed with probably 10 or so companies along the way.<p>I do not believe that &quot;grinding leetcode&quot; is at all necessary. However, familiarizing yourself with online &quot;IDEs&quot; and the skill of solving (relatively simple) problems quickly while communicating your thought process is necessary.<p>That being said, I would do a handful of Leetcode-type questions on your own time. Don&#x27;t aim to solve as many as possible or even bother to hit the hardest questions. Most questions I received were actually pretty simple algorithms that any dev could handle. IMO it&#x27;s more important to be comfortable in the environment, and be able to communicate well to your interviewer if it&#x27;s live than to be able to come up with perfect solution instantly.<p>The better companies I interviewed with made the live coding portion a small component early on, basically as a screen for basic coding skill. After that, the most important parts were design, discussions on previous projects, and behavioral interviews.
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bloat超过 3 年前
Please define the use of the term &#x27;grinding leetcode&#x27;.<p>Is it:<p>a) Having a good score on the actual leetcode website as a prerequisite for an offer&#x2F;interview.<p>b) Using the actual leetcode website to practice for a technical interview?<p>c) Practicing some other way using leetcode style data structure and alogrithm problems. e.g. working on the Cracking The Coding Interview book.<p>Personally I&#x27;ve never seen any recruiter or interviewer mention leetcode by name. But I&#x27;ve certainly been asked to practice leetcode style problems.
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yaseer超过 3 年前
Startups are awash with capital at the moment, and remote is the rule rather than exception, as it was 3 years ago.<p>Plenty of startups don&#x27;t have leetcode-type coding interviews in their culture, and the job market is such that $100k remote salaries are widespread.<p>No, the leetcode grind is not necessary in this job market, particularly if you apply to startups rather than FAANGs.
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dools超过 3 年前
If you want to make EUR100k&#x2F;year go on upwork and charge EUR65&#x2F;hour, take 4 weeks holiday and allow a 40% margin for non-billable hours. You can make that hourly rate doing any number of things that require no CS knowledge.
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jstx1超过 3 年前
Q: Is the leetcode grind necessary to land a high paying remote job?<p>A: No, you can get a good remote job without it.<p>---<p>Q: Is being good at leetcode-style problems necessary to land a job at certain companies (like the FAANGs you mentioned but others too)?<p>A: Yes, you&#x27;ll need to be good at these problems.<p>---<p>Q: Is &quot;the leetcode grind&quot; necessary to get good at these problems?<p>A: It depends on your background, on your current level and on how well you want to prepare.
adithyasrin超过 3 年前
I interviewed in Berlin last year and almost no one asked leetcode type questions. Some companies were even willing to give up take home projects if you asked them.<p>The alternative was to have system design and technical talks and it seems to work well. I wrote about my experience where we discussed about my side project as well: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.arbeitnow.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;how-a-side-project-led-to-a-job-offer&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.arbeitnow.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;how-a-side-project-led-to-a-j...</a>
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agentultra超过 3 年前
I believe there have been studies that these types of programming interviews are better at measuring how well someone manages their anxiety rather than filtering for technical skills.<p>So don’t feel as though you’re alone there! Even people who are good or decent at these kinds of puzzles will struggle to be successful in an interview situation.<p>That being said it is also possible to manage anxiety. The first step is to master the skill you need to perform until it is nearly subconscious. The less mental effort you can expend on solving the problems the more you have in reserve for regulating your anxiety.<p>The second strategy is to raise your tolerance for feeling anxiety. Don’t interview with the company you want to work at first. Instead prepare interviews with several smaller companies that you’re less interested in and would not be unhappy if they decline to send you an offer. That way you get some practice feeling anxiety without the disappointment or worry about failure.<p>The anxiety won’t go away entirely for nearly anyone. But if you work at it by the time you get to the interview for the job you really want you would be prepared to face the challenge.
ptnxlo超过 3 年前
Is the leetcode grind necessary to land a high paying remote job?<p>No. Why? There are companies that know what they do, have a good founding&#x2F;income and they&#x27;re willing to pay well if you can make a good impact in the company.<p>What does it have to do with Leetcode? Nothing. They can give you a development assignment when you&#x27;re going to use technologies they use every day, the ones you&#x27;re supposed to be used to and for problems they might be facing right now, saw before or they&#x27;re expected to overcome probably soon.<p>What would a Leetcode interview give you instead? I&#x27;m all ears.<p>There are companies that send you generic Leetcode or any type of problems to solve in a couple of hours and you never see a face, nor know more about the business you&#x27;re suppose to be working for the next time if you perform well (I&#x27;m looking at you Sumo Logic&#x2F;Toptal). I wouldn&#x27;t even bother if that&#x27;s the case.<p>Leave leetcode and related just for newcomers and people learning CS. Isn&#x27;t viable in most of the cases for day-to-day problem scenarios.
matthewowen超过 3 年前
No.<p>Before I interview, I definitely spend a couple of evenings working through leetcode exercises to sharpen up on those kinds of problems. But it’s just that, a couple of hours to sharpen up working in that format - the foundation that lets me perform in the interviews is my existing skills in the field.<p>I actually think of it as akin to running - the thing that makes the difference is your base of aerobic fitness, but you perform best in a race if you spend some time sharpening for it.<p>I’ve generally not found coding interviews to be a barrier to getting good offers either on-site in the Bay Area or working remotely.<p>I’ve also never felt like the questions I face in interviews are totally out of alignment with the work I do. They’re not the entirety of the work I do, but they’re usually a decent distillation of the hard parts of some aspect of the “writing code” element of the job.<p>I also think people get way too hung up on them. At the on-site stage, honestly, I think more people fail on the more holistic system design and architecture problems than on the pure coding ones.
marcos100超过 3 年前
If the hiring process uses Leetcode style questions, then yes, it&#x27;s necessary. It&#x27;s the game they play and if you want increase your chances to be hired, you have to play by their rules.<p>You have to weight those few hundred hours of hard work. You can prepare for FAANG interviews and earn 100k+&#x2F;year or you can do your side project and earn ???&#x2F;year plus your current job or you can improve your skills and resume and look for another non FAANG job that pays 100k+&#x2F;year and doesn&#x27;t use leetcode.<p>Clearly you have prejudice against leetcode style process. To participate it&#x27;s better that you be neutral or at least acknowledge that it&#x27;s part of the game that you have to play. You don&#x27;t have to like it, but if your mind think it&#x27;s the worst thing in the world, it&#x27;ll be much harder.<p>I recommend you to up you linkedin profile and try to get some interviews around the world to get a feeling of what it&#x27;s like. Do it without expectations, so that is doesn&#x27;t stress you much.
ChrisMarshallNY超过 3 年前
I tapped &quot;Depends,&quot; but I <i>wanted</i> to tap &quot;No.&quot;<p>I can tell you that requiring leetcode tests means that you won&#x27;t be working with me. For a lot of folks, that&#x27;s no big loss. For me, it&#x27;s <i>shrug</i>. I&#x27;m a bit sad, but I don&#x27;t cry myself to sleep, over it.<p>I feel these are tests for conformance and pliability, as opposed to actual prowess. To many corporations, that is <i>much</i> more important. They certainly don&#x27;t test for many practical applications. Take-home tests are a bit better, but, it has been my experience, that the companies look for rote responses, and don&#x27;t deal well with the way that I tend to solve problems.<p>When I interviewed folks, I got them to talk about their favorite projects, and asked them about solving unique, real-world problems, which, to me, was pretty damn important. I looked for enthusiasm and the willingness to solve problems. The code we wrote wasn&#x27;t exactly stuff that you&#x27;ll find in a textbook.<p>I also believe that, for many companies, they are a &quot;young-pass filter.&quot; I&#x27;m old, cranky, nonconformant, obdurate, and probably a pain to work with (although I have decades of experience, working with teams that say different, I suspect that a lot of folks here, would be unhappy with me).<p>I won&#x27;t go where I&#x27;m not wanted. I have a great deal of skill and experience, and have been <i>shipping</i> (as opposed to &quot;coding&quot;) for my entire adult life. I can prove it, too, with a pretty massive portfolio. If you are interested in <i>delivering</i> modern, high-quality, working, maintainable, software, as opposed to FSM worship code, jargon, and excuses, then I&#x27;m a good bet.<p>There&#x27;s a small possibility that I may know what I&#x27;m doing, and could make other people quite a bit of money.<p>But I&#x27;m not a &quot;cultural fit,&quot; and that&#x27;s fine with me. It wasn&#x27;t fine with me, for a while, after encountering today&#x27;s hiring process, but I have learned to accept it, and everything will be fine.<p>I love to work. Since no one wants to pay me to do it, I&#x27;ll do it for free; but, of course, that means that I do it on <i>my</i> terms.
richardanaya超过 3 年前
No, as i&#x27;ve started to reach staff engineer at my company i&#x27;ve been able to influence some of our hiring policy. I&#x27;ve vowed to make hiring policy that is a joy for our candidates. I find the an extremely simple take home project is enough to see meaningful details to have a conversation about and to be able to wave around to internal stakeholders that we&#x27;ve seen something material of theirs. I explicitly tell folks to please stop working after 2 hours very emphatically.
darthrupert超过 3 年前
As long as I can be even a bit picky on where to work, I will outright reject all work interviews which demand that I acquire skills that are useful only for the duration of the interview.<p>My best interviews have all been ones where I have had absolutely no preparation.
elitepleb超过 3 年前
Skip the service, don&#x27;t skip over the theory, the handbook ought to be enough <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cses.fi&#x2F;book&#x2F;book.pdf" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cses.fi&#x2F;book&#x2F;book.pdf</a> Just be useful.
888666超过 3 年前
Not global, but I landed a high paying remote job without a LC-style interview. However, I did spend a lot of time studying data structures &amp; algorithms for such an interview, and in this interview I was tasked with looking at existing code and explaining it. It happened to use an algorithm I had learned in my studying for LC, so it made things much easier to explain. Additionally, just the other day, I ended up using something on the job that I had learned in my LC studies in order to efficiently find duplicate items. It&#x27;s simple, but I wouldn&#x27;t have known to do this if I hadn&#x27;t studied for it. I find it&#x27;s been very well-worth my time. While preparing to get a job, I still put more hours into side projects.<p>Also, I don&#x27;t really get what you mean by saying you don&#x27;t want to practice because you know you&#x27;ll be anxious. The whole point of practicing is to get rid of that anxiety. Companies like to see how well you can perform under pressure, and how well you can communicate through that. The LC is a small part of the interview in my opinion.
julian_sark超过 3 年前
I live in Western Europe too and I never heard of this Leetcode thing until today.<p>I make almost the lower end of the scale you gave (or I would, adjusted for working 40 hours, but I actually chose to work just 32), and I could be making a lot more if I had been a little less self-critical and somewhat more persistent with a career.<p>I&#x27;m not a developer though, I&#x27;m an Admin type (or precisely, currently a IT Systems Architect) with loads of experience, but no formal education.<p>My successful job interviews have been a guy in shorts and flip-flops asking me for two minutes about the products and tech I know, in 2008 (okay, that company turned out to be desperate), and a one hour sitting with an HR and a technical guy, during which I was asked to solve the puniest problem in shell, ca. 2015 (I literally wrote down one line of shell and a pipe to awk on a whiteboard).<p>Though I did also work for Amazon way before this, too, the companies I describe here were medium or large, but not high profile types like Google or Microsoft.<p>Also, I can well imagine though that the situation is somewhat more formal for developers.
Bahamut超过 3 年前
I am currently at one of the FAANGs for almost 5 years, and even got promoted from mid level to senior in that time - I did not ever do any leetcode grinding, nor was it a major focus during my onsite with the team I joined. I also do not ask questions to candidates that require any leetcode grinding (or last minute interview preparation IMO), candidates who focus on being good at their job as a software engineer from a technical &amp; non-technical standpoint have all told me our sessions feel very low stress. The engineering managers I work with also generally do not believe in leetcode style questions either, there is a pervasive belief in my org they are bad filters from what I can tell.<p>I do happen to be comfortable enough with leetcode style questions, but only because I have failed enough interviews in the past doing them (I seem to do well enough to do onsites at other FAANGs at least, even before joining my current one). I figure it&#x27;s something I rather optimize for on failure than before the interview.
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kragen超过 3 年前
I have a different question: is leetcode <i>helpful</i> for landing high-paying jobs, or is it a signal that the company is a low-paying company? Because I&#x27;m pretty good at the leetcode thing.
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bss超过 3 年前
I work remotely from Zürich, Switzerland myself and went through the process last year.<p>When I went through it all, it was only Google and Facebook that did leetcode questions. The Facebook recruiter even suggested grinding before the interview. The rest of the companies did various coding and architecture sessions, with the coding sessions being much closer to real world problems.<p>In the end I ended up at Mutiny (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.mutinyhq.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.mutinyhq.com&#x2F;</a>). We do real-world domain-related coding problems in our technical screens and we won&#x27;t ding you for having to google things - that is after all what most of us do day-today.<p>If you&#x27;re interested in learning more about what we do, I am happy to chat. Just shoot me an e-mail at bo@mutinyhq.com
chrisweekly超过 3 年前
Europe may well be different, but anecdata: I live and work in the northeast US, I suck at leetcode &#x2F; FAANG-style whiteboard interviews, and I make about $300k&#x2F;yr (albeit via long-term contract gigs as a consultant w&#x2F; my own tiny S-Corp).
gameswithgo超过 3 年前
Practicing programming is never useless. Especially problems that are often parts of interviews. Reviewing basic data structures and algorithms and refreshing your memory with whatever languages you expect to have to deal with would be good practice even if you didn&#x27;t do interviews. You say you are looking for a high paying job which means being flexible and capable with programming over a broad range of ideas and topics is something you need to be able to do.<p>However it does not mean it is necessary, there are other ways to prove yourself and not every high paying job is going to do a coding interview.
filoeleven超过 3 年前
Meta discussion about abstaining from the poll:<p>I just loaded this submission because I am very interested in the results. I have not interviewed in ages, and I want to know what the trend is, but I do not have a meaningful opinion. I have to make a vote one way or another in order to see the results though.<p>This means I will most likely vote “depends” and not explain it in order to see the results as they develop. I do not want to do this.<p>Adding an option to abstain would help a lot here, and I suspect this applies to many if not most polls on HN. The number of abstentions should of course appear in the results.
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houshuang超过 3 年前
I&#x27;ve gotten jobs at three international remote companies, all paying above $150k, with no whiteboard and definitively no leet code. Although domain expertise helps, and working in the open (a track record of open source code, blog posts, interactions, communication style).<p>At current company, we&#x27;re open to hiring in Europe, and we do a ~4 hr take home assignment, which is then discussed in the meeting. Evaluation is just as much around documentation and showing your thinking, as it is around the code quality - very important qualities for a remote team.
golergka超过 3 年前
I&#x27;ve interviewed at a lot of companies this summer, and landed a similar remote job, x2 your salary target. I was even choosing between a few different offers. I did not train on leetcode, and I&#x27;ve explicitly said it to interviewers — I like to present my skills as they are when I work, not some temporarily buffed up version. I also don&#x27;t remember what different letters in SOLID mean.<p>I still got some live coding questions, which weren&#x27;t that hard. For example, one of the problems was classic n queens. I remembered the problem, but didn&#x27;t remember the solution, and had to come up with it in 45 minutes. Interviewer even pointed out that my solution ended up being not one of the more common ones — it was a bit quirky and awkward, but it worked.<p>But most of the interviews were centred around more practical problems: take-homes with realistic tasks, or questions about architecture that didn&#x27;t have one &quot;correct&quot; solutions but served more as conversation starters. May be it&#x27;s because I didn&#x27;t interview at FAANGS (I really dislike working at companies that have more than 100 employees), but overwhelming majority of the companies that I talked to had excellent interview process and I did not feel as if they were testing irrelevant skills like leetcode grinding or API memoization.
PaulHoule超过 3 年前
Personally I think skill at interviewing counts a lot. I&#x27;ve yet to see a data science interview problem that can&#x27;t be answered with either &quot;look it up in the hashtable&quot; or &quot;look it up in the literature&quot;. If you are good at connecting with people, don&#x27;t say stupid things that offend people (boast about drinking or drugs, make anti-semitic jokes, etc.) and not &quot;lose your shit&quot; it counts for a lot. Bluff and bluster helps with leetcode-style tests as well as all the other tests.<p>This guy&#x27;s course changed my life<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;job-interview-answers.com&#x2F;job-interview-tips&#x2F;about-bob-firestone&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;job-interview-answers.com&#x2F;job-interview-tips&#x2F;about-b...</a><p>even though I am an extreme introvert who has to spend a lot of downtime to emerge from my lair I can manage great feats of empathy, charm and seduction. I went from being afraid of job interviews to finding them fun.<p>To be fair I got a PhD in a quantitative field so I find the &quot;leetcode grind&quot; to be easy and intrinsitcally gratifying. Today, even if I am less good at it, I find it more challenging and interesting to grind at art, photography, printing, unusual imaging technology, 3-d graphics and ensorcelling people,.
ben30超过 3 年前
9 months ago, applied for a FAANG role, did the full day of interviews etc. Rejected, I feel the reason was not enough experience doing these on the spot coding challenges. I was given 2 on the day, 25 mins to answer each. I answered but on retrospect not a &#x27;text book&#x27; answer. I know how I&#x27;d answer it now.<p>It is what it is, in practice, on the job your value comes from knowing a system, which takes time, but interviews don&#x27;t check for that. I don&#x27;t respond well to artificial pressure like that, but interviews have time pressure, the only way for me to break through that is to practice these puzzles.<p>I had been making my way through these:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.teamblind.com&#x2F;post&#x2F;New-Year-Gift---Curated-List-of-Top-75-LeetCode-Questions-to-Save-Your-Time-OaM1orEU" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.teamblind.com&#x2F;post&#x2F;New-Year-Gift---Curated-List-...</a><p>Paused currently though, as I got a job elsewhere, that didn&#x27;t have the leet code barrier to entry. Respectfully, they told me up front what they wanted to talk about it, so the questions were not a surprise.
aeonflux超过 3 年前
I became quite proficient in those types of interviews just by doing really small amount of exercises. No need to grind for countless hours.<p>If you get an async automatic test you can always google your solution easily. You need to be proficient in understanding the problem and implementing the solution from description or rewriting in it different programming language. I had few live coding sessions with &quot;leetcode like&quot; task. Most of they time you&#x27;ll ask you to do some basic thing, where the default complexity is around O(N²) and the idea is to come up with faster solution.<p>Once in a while I like to experiment with different programming language and leetcode is one of the best way to do that. People advice on building real world apps when learning new stack, but I find that really dull, as you need to understand a lot more machinery in the stack before you can actually have something running. Leetcodes are easy to run and create. At the same time they force you to lookup basic constructs, learn how to work with strings, arrays, etc.
snowyAron超过 3 年前
I&#x27;m not sure why you assume it has to be hundreds of hours. Take a look at something like <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;jwasham&#x2F;coding-interview-university" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;jwasham&#x2F;coding-interview-university</a>, which has a lot of different topics.<p>In interview loops I&#x27;ve done recently, I realized I was most nervous around Systems&#x2F;Scaling and Graph (e.g. Dijkstra&#x27;s) questions, so took some time to work on those.<p>You don&#x27;t have to do like the author of that piece and work for hundreds of hours. If trees are proving a problem or are an area you know you aren&#x27;t so up on, then use studying to fill in the gap. Anything is better than nothing, and studying for, let&#x27;s say, 10 hours might make you just more comfortable with the topic to turn the interview in a more positive direction.<p>(Disclaimer: I have a academic background from years ago, just haven&#x27;t used most of these things in years, since like everyone here has admitted, it isn&#x27;t regularly a part of day-to-day life)
coryfklein超过 3 年前
I&#x27;m seeing a huge discrepancy between the poll responses and the comments.<p>Most everyone seems to agree that leetcode has poor corollation with the ability to perform at most companies, while also agreeing that leetcode is very common practice in interviewing.<p>You may be able to find a company where you can pass through the interview stages with poor leetcode ability, but many companies that YOU WOULD ACTUALLY WANT TO WORK AT currently include a leetcode evaluation as part of their interview process, despite the fact that that very company does not require those skills for every day work.<p>And ignore the, &quot;well you wouldn&#x27;t want to work for a company that tests this way&quot; comments. There is NOT some magical super-strong correlation between the interview experience and the actually-working-there experience that applies to all companies. Some have this correlation, and some don&#x27;t. This is why you ask the hiring manager for 1:1 interviews with front line engineers and then you grill THEM about aspects of work that matter to you.
Madmallard超过 3 年前
Interviewing I&#x27;ve done for high competence positions that aren&#x27;t necessarily super high volume had such creative and difficult coding assessments that bitching about leetcode just seems soooooo bizarre to me by comparison.<p>Companies that did leetcode stuff are just like a joke. Can you reuse this array to store the information you&#x27;re using while you&#x27;re going through this list of items? Great! Wow, smart candidate!<p>Okay, try interviewing for something like Insomniac Games where they want you to write an effective memory manager in C as a screening question! Or interview for Sony where you got 3 algorithms problems, 3 game logic vector math type problems, and 3 obscure memory uses of C problems in 2 hours and you gotta do it all on paper. These are out of date too. It&#x27;s probably even more involved now for game companies.<p>Leetcode is totally fine and you should get comfortable using the techniques you learned in your core competency classes in school to solve novel problems.
Madmallard超过 3 年前
I think it depends on the role, I think SDE1 level jobs are more likely going to have leetcode style questions, but if you&#x27;re going for senior roles it&#x27;s going to be more systems design style interviews. They wanna know that you can handle their whole stack for them and scale it to their dreamed AWS perfection.
Communitivity超过 3 年前
Depends.<p>You need some luck, and learn to be good at marketing yourself. More than that though, you need to work your arse off. Work-life balance is something you always should be mindful of, but you&#x27;ll have to work harder and smarter without the leetcode,etc. and a degree, than someone with those things did, to get to the same spot.<p>I think the biggest benefit of leetcode and things like it is that they help you prepare for coding interviews.<p>I&#x27;ve been working as a software engineer for twenty+ years, am making low six figures, and do not have a bachelors degree (I am in the slow process of going back for it). I also don&#x27;t have a leetcode account. Someone with half my experience, but with a degree from a prodigious school, could be making $300-$400k. I also am more risk averse due to family situation (so no moving to SV&#x2F;Austin&#x2F;NYC to take my shot with a startup, yet).
evouga超过 3 年前
I agree with the complaints that esoteric competitive-programming stuff (suffix arrays, segment trees, Dinic&#x27;s algorithm, etc.) should not tested in a coding interview.<p>But most of the Leetcode problems cover basic algorithms like BFS&#x2F;DFS, binary search, dynamic programming, and other Algorithms-class material, no? As long as you&#x27;re given adequate time to think about and solve the problems, I don&#x27;t really understand the negativity in the comments towards companies requiring coders to... actually code.<p>(By the way, if all of the monetization&#x2F;engagement&#x2F;social-media aspects of Leetcode turn you off as much as they do me, I recommend practicing on <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cses.fi&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cses.fi&#x2F;</a> instead---the problems are higher-quality and better-taxonomized too).
wombat-man超过 3 年前
Leetcode is ok. My issue with it is some of the prompts are kind of confusing. Some of the solutions are often crowd sourced. Someone will probably post a solution in your language of choice, but there&#x27;s not always a good explanation.<p>I much prefer the book Elements of Programming Interviews. It has an accompanying git repo with tests that you can debug in if you really need to. The solutions usually discuss a couple possible approaches. Following their study guide, I learned about Java data structures that I don&#x27;t normally use and saw a good variety of problems. Ended up getting a job I was shooting for.<p>Ultimately though, it&#x27;s not so different from leet code, although I think it is a more effective use of time. I think it is a good idea to do some practice just so you are ready for this type of question.
beny23超过 3 年前
No.<p>I&#x27;m a software consultant with a consultancy that would qualify as both high paying and remote in the UK and involved with interviewing, personally I value having a &quot;homework&quot; assignment so that candidates can complete a simple assignment and then build on that in a pairing session.<p>I don&#x27;t think much of leetcode assignments as they tend to focus on the algorithm and getting solution through rather than writing good quality code that keeps it simple and is maintainable. That is much much more important than repeating an algorithm.<p>Though I also would say that in the current climate, the pressure on finding good candidates is so that a lot of places are considering dropping take-home tests in fear of putting off quality candidates, so I think you may well be in a good position at the moment to avoid leetcode and hackerrank...
patrakov超过 3 年前
No matter whether it is required, it is a malpractice. The real coding skills needed for a job are the ability to read code, not only write. So, if I were to present an automated test, it would be to invent some input to a preexisting badly-written function which exposes that it is wrong.
rk06超过 3 年前
“No, but yes”.<p>If you want high paying job, you need some way to demonstrate that you are smart enough and distinguish yourself from others. Leetcode is one way to do it.<p>Other way is to demonstrate your work contribution. But what if you don’t have any experience?<p>Show that your are from top tech institute and got good marks.<p>But what if you are not from top institute? And you don’t have any great projects to distinguish yourself from others?<p>The answer is leetcode. Regardless of your college&#x2F;background&#x2F; company background, with leetcode, you can demonstrate that you have aptitude for learning, self motivation, grit and perseverance.<p>That is why leetcode is so much used. If you are senior engineer (&gt;10yrs), then you can turn down leetcode and show case your experience instead. For all else, leetcode is most reliable way to do it
geebee超过 3 年前
I said yes, but only with the assumption that this is specifically for software engineering roles. You can land a high paying job in other roles without the leetcode grind. You may pay in other ways, in terms of the nature of the work or other requirements. Yes, FANGS definitely do hire MBAs from a top programs, PhD scientists to work in non-SE analytical roles, and so forth, and they may get to skip the technical interview. But I have been astonished by the credentials of people <i>currently working at google</i>, we&#x27;re talking people with PhDs in computer science who were hired as analysts or scientists, who still had to run the leetcode gauntlet to switch over to an SE role - and some of them failed the interviews.
tmp220127超过 3 年前
I also live in western Europe (UK) and refuse to interview with any company who hires this way. I work 100% from home and I earn ~$80,000.<p>FAANGs aren&#x27;t the only things out there. I&#x27;m not sure why you specified that kind of company specifically, but you may want to consider that there are literally hundreds if not thousands of local or country-wide companies that can give you what you want.<p>My company probably isn&#x27;t even the biggest company on the street and employes less than 50 people, and yet I get good pay, work 100% from home, and get 28 days paid leave. I work from 08:00 to 16:00 with 1 hour lunch and I haven&#x27;t worked a minute of overtime in 5 years. FAANG isn&#x27;t the be-all-and-end-all.
phgn超过 3 年前
TIL you can create polls on HN via <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;newpoll" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;newpoll</a><p>I haven&#x27;t seen one here in a long time. Maybe the algorithm doesn&#x27;t particularly like poll posts?
_wldu超过 3 年前
If you want to work as a computer scientist, then you have to understand algorithms. Leetcode is just algorithms. Most SW devs do not need to understand this.<p>So long as SW devs realize simple things such as maps are faster for lookups (rather than looping over a list) and use them when needed, that&#x27;s about all they need to know to get the job done.<p>I would also say that everyone ought to be able to come up with the brute force (slow) solution to the algorithm problems (at the very least) and then offer another solution that&#x27;s still correct and somewhat faster. If you can do that, then most places will hire you (even if you can&#x27;t think of the ideal solution in 20 minutes).
cebert超过 3 年前
Edited: deleted. Somehow my post appeared twice.
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fallingfrog超过 3 年前
What’s leetcode? In my interviews they usually ask me to write pseudocode solutions to some fun, clever little problems. Like, one asked me to write a function to get the permutations of a list of arrays of strings. That one took me a few minutes to solve- should have been obvious but I did stare into space for a minute or two before giving the answer. I think I was just nervous. That was the hardest one though, all the others were easy. But you know, aside from just knowing what you’re doing I don’t know how you would grind to prepare for that.
gustavpaul超过 3 年前
I told myself: I spent years studying (mostly) irrelevant material in university, what is a few months&#x27; worth of evenings studying (mostly) irrelevant leetcode problems if it doubles my TC. Still, it does suck.
lentil_soup超过 3 年前
It is possible, you have to ask for it though.<p>I just did a round of interviews with offers over 100kEUR in GameDev working remotely. All British or EU companies. No leetcode questions, some did take home tests, some online questionnaires and most of them a normal technical interview talking about code.<p>I had a few companies reject me for the asking price, but that&#x27;s fine, at least I knew I was pushing their limits. If we don&#x27;t do that we won&#x27;t get rid of the hand waiving excuse of salaries are lower in the EU (or in gamedev for that matter)
curiousgal超过 3 年前
Judging by the sad state of Android, I am confident that the main cause is Google hiring people who grind Leetcode and &quot;crack their interviews&quot;. So yeah It&#x27;s necessary I would say.
relyks超过 3 年前
From what I&#x27;ve seen, if the interview doesn&#x27;t include leetcode like questions, the hiring company usually gives you a take-home assignment or a timed project through a web app. Companies will sometimes pay you to do the take-home assignment (rare from my experience) and give a deadline (but not always). For a particular company, both, the take-home assignment or timed online project, are usually related to the job. Try looking for a company that doesn&#x27;t do &quot;whiteboarding&quot;?
aaroninsf超过 3 年前
I am a point where I context switch all the time, and find I look up the details for specific environments all the time. Because I don&#x27;t have them all memorized. I have more important things to devote my abilities to, whatever they are.<p>If this is ever cause for filtering, that&#x27;s fine. I&#x27;m not interested in the kind of environment that privileges memorization over thinking.<p>The details matter; but the details that matter are almost never (it not literally never) about the syntax of e.g. for loops in bash.
fergie超过 3 年前
The business of leetcode depends on people thinking that they _have_ to use it.<p>I have a feeling that some content marketeers have been posting questions like this here and also on <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;cscareerquestions&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;cscareerquestions&#x2F;</a> just to give the impression that leetcode is some sort of industry standard, when in reality it is almost never used.
jakub_g超过 3 年前
I landed my $bigtech work last year via a leetcode process but it was pretty lightweight and tasks were simple (I do frontend, maybe other positions have more difficult tasks). YMMV depending on company but don&#x27;t assume leetcode = solving NP-hard problems.<p>Also pro tip: absolutely do a fake interview before with a friend before each step. You&#x27;ll fail miserably and stress af, but it will give you point to reflect on and prepare for real one not to panic.
kyoob超过 3 年前
Saying &quot;it&#x27;s a crying shame that it&#x27;s necessary&quot; and saying &quot;it&#x27;s not at all necessary&quot; are two different things. In this moment, you have to at least brush up on coding concepts you don&#x27;t use at your current day-job (and might not end up using at this prospective new day-job) to be able to talk through some pretty arcane problems. Right now, it&#x27;s necessary.
disambiguation超过 3 年前
Hard to give a yes&#x2F;no answer.<p>At one point in my career, I did the grind and it helped me land at FAANG.<p>Now I can land good jobs without doing the grind, but that&#x27;s because I&#x27;m at a level where I could easily solve most problems without prep. (The key is to make sure you&#x27;re being challenged and growing in your current role)<p>Further I can see myself doing it again in the future to hone my skills again as interviews continue to evolve.
huckr超过 3 年前
I make more 100k per year contracting for a bank and I&#x27;ve never done a leetcode interview. I&#x27;m not in Europe though but I think I could actually make more there because my specialty is more in demand.<p>I suspect leetcode and whiteboard interviews are a way for Asians in the US to select for other Asians. Also more powerful HR departments leads to more &quot;objective&quot; and metrics-based hiring practices.
CalRobert超过 3 年前
I live in Western Europe and got my current 6 figure 100% remote job or a US company with no leetcode, but the take-home assignment was quite long.
Taylor_OD超过 3 年前
I think you would do better to apply for fully remote companies based in the US and avoid faang+ companies. Lot&#x27;s of start ups and mid sized companies who are growing their eng team will pay you 100K+ regardless of where you are located if you can code well.<p>Look for anyone who had 50 million plus in funding. Look at every YCombinator graduate. Look at crunchbase. There are lots of remote job boards.
fbrncci超过 3 年前
In Europe I have never encountered a leet code style interview; and I have interviewed with 30+ companies for a full remote role in the past 2 years. So far they have all been project based (these are the specs, produce a deliverable within one week and demo it). The only issue being that +$100K remote salaries are quite the unicorns in Europe. I&#x27;ve seen them go as high as $85k though.
viach超过 3 年前
Interesting, is there a website which offers a set of real dev problems to solve? Like, here is the IP of a prod environment, we are getting 500 with some combination of POST request parameters to this endpoint, the logs say there is something wrong with deserialization, integration tests are green, customers are screaming. This kind of things, not &quot;find a sum of polynomials&quot;?
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mdm12超过 3 年前
I know it doesn&#x27;t directly answer your question, but there is a nice repository of companies[1] that lists their technical interview processes (take-home project, live coding exercise, etc).<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;poteto&#x2F;hiring-without-whiteboards" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;poteto&#x2F;hiring-without-whiteboards</a>
projectileboy超过 3 年前
These conversations always seem to conflate different types of jobs into one. Are algorithms and data structures important if you’re creating backend services at Facebook? Probably. Are they important if you’re creating backend services for an internal app at your regional bank? Probably not. Most software jobs are more like the latter than the former.
optymizer超过 3 年前
I worked at 2 FAANGs for 8 years. I did not do a single leetcode problem on purpose. I read Algorithms by Sedgewick and How to Crack the Coding Interview. At least on 2 occasions the interviewer gave me a problem that was straight from the latter book and not an exercise, i.e. it was walked through step by step at the beginning of the chapter, and the rest were very similar to the exercises in the book, so I&#x27;d say it&#x27;s not a requirement to go through leetcode, with the caveat below, but you should at least expose yourself to them.<p>In my experience interviewing, doing leetcode problems gives you a distinct advantage over people who haven&#x27;t, like me. I did much better on problems that I have encountered in the books (even if I didn&#x27;t recall the solution exactly) than on completely new types of problems, so, by induction, if you work through as many problems as possible you&#x27;ll perform better at the coding interview (the leetcode-style ones).<p>That&#x27;s the trick to performing well in these interviews. It&#x27;s unlikely you&#x27;ll come up with a double-pointer list traversal method in 30 minutes on your own (maybe with a lot of help from the interviewer), because that&#x27;s a clever way of solving a problem and clever solutions are non-obvious by definition. It takes time to invent an entirely new solution in your mind, but if you know about it and other clever solutions like it, you have a bigger bag of solutions to match to the problem at hand, which is a distinct advantage when interviewing.<p>You could argue that you should be able to come up with a solution to these problems in less than 30 minutes all on your own, but when the interviewers are calibrated on the other people who have interviewed before you, the majority of which trained on leetcode problems, were exposed to that problem category and it took them much less time to solve it, then you look like an outlier, even if there&#x27;s nothing wrong with your problem solving abilities. This translates to the interviewer expecting to work through 2 problems in the 30-40 minutes, because that&#x27;s what the majority of his other leetcode-trained candidates were able to do, so you performed worse than your peers, even if you found the solution in ~30 minutes.<p>In my opinion, there&#x27;s value in knowing about these algorithms, in general, to be able to recognize situations when they might apply, but there&#x27;s little value in being able to know them all so well that we should be able to code the algorithms on a whiteboard under time pressure.
Tade0超过 3 年前
No, not at all. At least in Europe leetcode is what companies do when they hail from SV or, more commonly, are just cargo culting its culture.<p>In any case if you want to land such a job then there&#x27;s one thing which helps tremendously, namely: <i>immediate availability at the start of the quarter</i>.<p>Q3 is an exception, because that&#x27;s when everyone is on vacation.
Gortal278超过 3 年前
&gt; mostly because I know that I would panic and perform poorly in this kind of interview, so I don&#x27;t really see the point of practicing for that<p>That disappears with practice. Just start slow, do a couple of easy leetcode questions a day until you are comfortable then move onto medium. You&#x27;ll get there don&#x27;t sweat it.
new_guy超过 3 年前
It&#x27;s a quick and easy way to separate people who know what they&#x27;re doing from those that don&#x27;t.<p>If you know your field, then &#x27;leetcode&#x27; is a non-issue, it&#x27;s like asking a barista to make you a coffee.<p>The only people struggling and complaining are the ones that won&#x27;t make the cut, and that tells you all you need to know.
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tpxl超过 3 年前
No leetcode necessary. I landed a fintech job with a starting salary of 80k$ with a short get-to-know-you interview based on my resume and about 6 years of work experience. Other offers were in the ballpark of 40-65k$.<p>Edit: I live in a country with average wage of ~25k$. All numbers are pre-tax.
seatsniffer超过 3 年前
Couldn&#x27;t companies just adopt strategies that have been used for &quot;traditional&quot; engineers for decades? Verify credentials and then for technical interviews discuss a potential proplem that could easily arise in detail and how you&#x27;d solve it.
Thristle超过 3 年前
I don&#x27;t think remote has anything to do with it If a company does leetcode for remote jobs in 2022 it probably did it for &quot;local&quot; jobs pre pandemic.<p>It really depends on the company and country. Leetcode style is more prevalent in some countries then in other
trzy超过 3 年前
Reading this made me picture a future in a few years where programmers grind leetcode for <i>low-paying</i> FAANG jobs competing against millions of new remote entrants into the job market for whom the salaries are worth it.
edgyquant超过 3 年前
I have never went through leet code or any of those types and I’m self taught. I just tried (and failed) to build a handful of companies and the experience was enough to land me a senior engineering gig.
elwell超过 3 年前
Startup Idea: Duolingo meets LeetCode: Interview prep that solves real world coding needs (for non-profit causes maybe?). Actually, I vaguely remember something about TopCoder doing similar.
austincheney超过 3 年前
The real answer is no, but after interviewing earlier this year the actual answer in practice is an astounding <i>YES</i>.<p>There are two options of leet code: some compound algorithm that you would never use in production coded live or homework conducted over 4-6 hours on your own time. Given the extreme subjectivity of software hiring I am not inclined to do either. The homework approach is far more practical and realistic but is a complete waste of time. Never do hiring homework without grading criteria supplied in advance.<p>There are far more effective ways of assessing competence with simple cognitive exercises unless you are in an area of software that doesn’t primarily favor competence, such as preferences towards tools.
andygroundwater超过 3 年前
Absolutely not! I got my current role by going in to an interview and critiquing my previous employer&#x27;s architecture, data pipeline and (complete) lack of data oversight.
Dumblydorr超过 3 年前
If you only want to make 80k, you definitely don&#x27;t need to grind leet code. I&#x27;ve never done a single jot of leetcode, I make that much doing SQL and stats.
tharne超过 3 年前
If FAANG world, yes. In most other areas of the economy, no.
antihero超过 3 年前
I&#x27;ve asked potential employers not to do these because I think they are bullshit (in much nicer words) and they have been ok with that.
denvrede超过 3 年前
If I may ask, what country are you living in? Getting a salaried $100k without FAANG should be possible for every country in western Europe.
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k__超过 3 年前
I know a FB dev, who did two months of such practice assignments before interviewing at FB.<p>He said, the actual interview questions were easy after that.
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karmasimida超过 3 年前
leetcode is about conformity<p>if you screw leetcode up, most likely the interviewer will dismiss you as not being serious<p>do you need to grind leetcode? or without grinding is it possible to land a job?<p>both depends heavily on the lineup of the interviewers on that day. everyone has a different interview style and strategy.<p>if you expect to get good&#x2F;better pay, then grinding leetcode is actually ok, the roi is worth it
powerapple超过 3 年前
if you know you are going to get nervous facing those questions, it makes more sense that you spend time training and overcome it. Just for the sick of getting rid of anxiety, it would worth it, wouldn&#x27;t it?
eweise超过 3 年前
I interview quite a few engineers and have never heard of leetcode.
karmasimida超过 3 年前
unpopular opinion:<p>the reason you should LC is precisely most dislike it.<p>that is why it is worthwhile
lstodd超过 3 年前
Absolutely not.<p>Search more, you will find 10-50 people companies paying way above the usual faang-style sweatshops.<p>Last couple of years crypto-hft was the place to be, but that&#x27;s changing. Anyway, they are there. Do not conform or you become useless.
johanneskanybal超过 3 年前
What&#x27;s leetcode? &#x2F;developer the past 23 years.
JofArnold超过 3 年前
As an engineering manager this is a difficult one.<p>A developer who&#x27;s excellent at leetcode really shines; it&#x27;s a strong positive signal that correlates more often than not with someone who writes clean, easy-to-read and fast code. Furthermore, huge bonus points if they find learning algorithms fun because learning and enjoying code is, obviously, a big part of our work.<p>It also saddens me that so many developers (especially late in their careers) are stubborn about not learning these techniques (&quot;I didn&#x27;t get to be where I am now mastering recursion therefore it&#x27;s stupid&quot;) which too often comes from an established position of privilege... This is very apparent when you compare to developers fresh out of university with little commercial experience; for them being good at algorithms is one of the few things - other than enthusiasm and side-projects - at their disposal. For that reason, leetcode is also fair you could argue; everyone gets the same treatment regardless of level.<p>However... a great many outstanding developers get flustered and tie themselves up in knots under interview pressure. If I went purely by &quot;can this applicant perfectly solve this problem in 50 minutes&quot; then I would be ruling out lots of really talented people. It also saddens me that early-career developers are being trained to just leetcode grind when what makes for a good hire (at any level) is someone who&#x27;s endlessly curious and humble as opposed to being an algorithm beast.<p>It&#x27;s tempting to think the solution should be a practical &quot;make this app&quot; test, but most highly-experienced developers can kick out excellent apps from muscle memory which tells me little about their ability to think on their feet, collaborate or learn new things. Furthermore if it&#x27;s a take-home exercise, it significantly privileges those who have the freedoms to spend lots of time on it: e.g this could be a struggle for single parent families.<p>I recommend you watch Dan Abramov&#x27;s fake interview on YouTube along with the two Ben Awad did to get some perspective on all this.<p>What we&#x27;re currently experimenting with at Tipalti is pairing on a mix of some practical challenges and some algorithm challenges. The expectation is set that we don&#x27;t care about completing, but more about how to solve the problem together. Everyone - including the hiring panel - are allowed to get confused and stuck and in a good interview session we&#x27;d all solve it together. The two sessions act as complementary bookend that gives a good feel for the candidate&#x27;s range and approach.<p>Of course, it&#x27;s not perfect by any stretch but like most things with engineering we keep an open mind try something new, get feedback then iterate. Always learning.
Shadonototra超过 3 年前
leetcode = i waste my time while other people land high paying jobs
shockeychap超过 3 年前
I remember well an interview with a company where I was asked a lot of questions that pertained to scaling characteristics of algorithmic solutions. For example, I was asked to describe ways to implement a solution for determining all of the words that can be composed from a given combination of numbers. (similar to how early texting was done on flip phones with numbers but no keyboard) We talked about how a conventional lookup would entail 3 possible letters per key and that the order of growth for checking words in this fashion would be 3^n. I was asked if it could be optimized, and I proposed a sorted list of number combinations in which you could do a binary search on the number sequence and get all of the possible words. I explained that this would facilitate a single lookup in logarithmic time. They asked if I had other ideas, which I didn&#x27;t, and they brought up the use of a hash. I hadn&#x27;t thought of it, but that also made sense, as it would result in a fixed time lookup. (Not a major improvement over logarithmic time, especially at scale, but an improvement nonetheless.) We discussed a few other things, and all in all, it felt like a very good interview in which I thought I had demonstrated good working knowledge of the concepts they were asking about - and was comfortable doing so.<p>Then came the second interview. They asked me to, in real time, using a shared coding system, construct a javascript program that would, given any input string, print out a list of all the possible letter permutations. (eg. &quot;abc&quot; would show &quot;abc&quot;, &quot;acb&quot;, &quot;bac&quot;, &quot;bca&quot;, &quot;cab&quot;, and &quot;cba&quot;) The challenge didn&#x27;t scare me, and I had an idea of what I wanted to do algorithmically. I certainly knew it would be a recursive sequence of calls moving along the string until it was done. Using the &quot;abc&quot; example, you&#x27;d rotate &quot;a&quot;, &quot;b&quot;, &quot;c&quot; into the first spot, then, with each of those rotations, you&#x27;d do the same on the next digit, and repeat until getting to the last character. When you get to the last character, on each rotation, you&#x27;d have a result, which you&#x27;d store. You&#x27;d then unwind back up the chain storing the results as you went along. So it involved a recursive sequence that was rotating letters in each spot and then on the unwind aggregating the results.<p>I sat there, with the interviewer watching my every keystroke as I put together a first pass that didn&#x27;t work. I added some diagnostic output and worked through a few things. For some reason, the interviewer, apparently thinking I was &quot;close&quot;, jumped in with a couple of things to change, which I did, but there were still problems. After about 45 minutes, he called the interview over. Shortly afterward, I got an email from the company thanking me for taking the time, but declining any further interest.<p>That evening, I sat down to write the exact program they had asked for. It took me the better part of two hours, but I got it working, and working well. Having no prior experience with this problem, I wouldn&#x27;t have solved it in the time they were expecting. I was going to email my solution to the company, but I figured they&#x27;d just dismiss it and assume I had cheated, or, perhaps not be interested anyway since it took me so long.<p>To this day, I think the company misjudged me. I&#x27;m not one to produce rapid-fire, bug-free, algorithmically magical solutions in a first pass on the spot. But I do pride myself on the quality of what I write and how well I&#x27;m able to address and understand the very problems I was being asked about in a variety of contexts.<p>In this scenario, I felt that &quot;leetcode&quot; skills and speed were given too much weight over other factors including the thought process and eventual solution. I don&#x27;t disagree with the use of some &quot;leetcode&quot; competency tests, but I think a company should be careful not to eliminate a candidate who doesn&#x27;t sling code fast enough in an interview, particularly if, through probing questions, you can establish that they have a sincere and thorough understanding of the problems at play and how to solve them with code.<p>My two cents.
travisjungroth超过 3 年前
&gt; Is the leetcode grind <i>necessary</i> to land a high paying remote job?<p>&gt; Do you think grinding leetcode is an <i>absolute necessity</i> to land a good job at a company hiring worldwide remotely?<p>&gt; ... western europe ... salaries around 80-100k$ ...<p>You&#x27;ve very clearly defined the problem, and I&#x27;d think the answer should be obviously &quot;no&quot;. Are there any software engineers making that salary in that location who haven&#x27;t ground leetcode (grinded?). I guess that term isn&#x27;t very well defined, but let&#x27;s be super generous and say it&#x27;s spending more than 8 total hours practicing algorithms for the purpose of passing interviews.<p>So an equivalent question is &quot;are there zero software engineers with a $100k salary in western europe who spent 0-8 hours practicing algorithms for their interviews?&quot;. I&#x27;m guessing if you asked that question you&#x27;d have a lot less &quot;yes&quot; on the poll.<p>Not exactly the best question though. It sounds like you&#x27;re not categorically blocked from grinding leetcode. You have performance anxiety. Not diagnosing you, just rephrasing:<p>&gt; it&#x27;s not really about whether or not I can solve a hard leetcode problem, it&#x27;s about if I want to do it live in front of a recruiter, it make me anxious just to think about that and I don&#x27;t want to inflict that on myself<p>So is dealing with performance anxiety + the hours spent on leetcode worth the job? Is there another path to the job that&#x27;s less work and&#x2F;or higher probability? These are optimization questions. You won&#x27;t get at their answers with asking about necessities.<p>My perspective is there are roughly three levels of algorithm skill that come up in interviews. First is the kind of stuff you really actually do on the job. A decent professional with a few years of experience should be fine with zero prep. FizzBuzz level, really. Level 2 is beyond what most people do in their jobs. Count the number of components in a graph. Really good engineers or people who practice will be able to do this. Level 3 is the stuff that just rarely comes up at all. Leetcode hard. Can&#x27;t think of an example. Almost everyone needs dedicated work to get to this level.<p>I think level 2 and level 3 come up in similar proportion in interviews, and jobs that ask level 3 questions might pay a little better on average but not a ton and there&#x27;s high variance. And, critically, getting to level 3 requires 10x the effort of getting to level 2.<p>With that framing, I think there is outsized benefit to getting to level 2. If anything, make sure your coverage of all possible problems at level 2 is great rather than go into level 3. Go for level 3 if you know you need to for a certain job, or algorithms is a strength you want to lean into. You should probably go for level 2.<p>Second piece of advice is you should split dealing with the anxiety and learning the algorithms. Think of them as separate problems, practice them separately. They can cloud each other. I&#x27;ve seen it so many times. The pain of performance anxiety will convince you algorithms are dumb and pointless and you shouldn&#x27;t study since it has zero benefit. But it is benefitting you, it&#x27;s getting you a job.<p>Anyway, you should probably just think of it as &quot;practicing coding in front of people&quot; instead of &quot;anxiety&quot;. Not saying you need to see a therapist. You would probably do very well to try answering questions that are very easy for you, questions you already know the answer to, in front of someone. Maybe a record a video, maybe live stream it. Now you&#x27;ve separated the algo skill from the performance. Practice talking and coding alone. Separately improve the algo skill and combine them at the end.<p>Hope this helps.
apeescape超过 3 年前
You can get a remote job in your pay range for example in the UK, but I&#x27;ll focus on the US market in my answer. (I&#x27;m a European developer, lived in the Silicon Valley for a while, and now I&#x27;m back in Europe, working remotely for an early-stage US startup, making a lot more than the upper limit of the pay range you mentioned).<p>First of all, $80-100k isn&#x27;t considered a high pay in the Silicon Valley, but rather an intern salary. So $100k for a remote job is a reasonable ask, even at an early stage startup. In my experience, most of the small startups don&#x27;t conduct interviews with an algorithm gauntlet like FAANG (or is it MANGA?) companies do; there could be some of that stuff, but not exclusively, and you&#x27;re of course allowed to communicate that it&#x27;s not your strong suite. The market to hire good developers is so tough right now, that smart companies are willing to cut you some slack on the &quot;formal&quot; knowledge part if you&#x27;re able to prove you can be an asset in the &quot;real world&quot; for them.<p>In my experience, the biggest pain points in hiring Europeans are the time difference, bad English skills, and cultural differences. This varies a lot by company, so take it with a grain of salt, but here&#x27;s a breakdown of these three things:<p>1. The time difference is what it is, so you might be required to work in the evenings with some companies. If you live in the Western Europe and work for an East Coast company, the time difference shouldn&#x27;t be that big of a deal, as you can have a comfortable overlap in your afternoon and their morning. Eastern Europe to West Coast, on the other hand, is a 10h difference, so you might expect to work the late shift.<p>2. Language skills can be practiced. In your case, I&#x27;d say your written English is perfectly sufficient, but in case you&#x27;re shaky on the spoken level, it might be wise to sharpen your skills there. You don&#x27;t have to be on a native level, not even close (and Americans in general are used to immigrants and different accents and whatnot), but you don&#x27;t want it to be a clear weakness either. As long as you&#x27;re able to understand others and communicate your thoughts in a clear manner, you&#x27;re good.<p>3. What I mean by cultural differences is that many European cultures lack the sort of self-promotional and positive aura that comes naturally to most Americans. If you ever visited the US, you know what I&#x27;m talking about. US employers aren&#x27;t necessarily accustomed to reading people who aren&#x27;t good at this, so it might throw them off. Being able to relax and smile and get past the usual small talk takes you a long way.<p>It might be easier to get into a company where there are other European remote employees already, as &quot;offshoring&quot; for the first time can be a scary thing for a small startup, especially if the candidate doesn&#x27;t tick off all boxes.
jsiaajdsdaa超过 3 年前
Man, scrolling through this thread-- 100k a year is not gonna cut it for me.<p>I need 200k minimum these days and I would like to end up closer to 400k. Why? Houses in the area I want to live cost money, and these salaries may not be around forever. So extra money is needed for a cushion and for investments.<p>The dollar is weakening, and real assets&#x2F;income-producing assets are only becoming more expensive. 100k is the new blue collar, sadly.
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