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“Y Combinator is not worth it”

117 点作者 DantesKite超过 3 年前

16 条评论

detaro超过 3 年前
I guess related (but not the same twitter thread!) from a few days ago: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=30066969" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=30066969</a> (1152 points, 317 comments) &quot;Stripe and YCombinator, the Mob Bosses of Silicon Valley, a thread:&quot;
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conjecTech超过 3 年前
Well, Ryan decided to block me for a rather tame quote tweet, so I guess I&#x27;ll repost it here:<p>&quot;YC are some of the kindest, most egalitarian people in SV. They&#x27;ve treated me well even after my company they invested in closed down. They give people a shot who wouldn&#x27;t otherwise have one. If I were an investor who just handed this guy money at 250x revenue, I&#x27;d be nervous.&quot;<p>Every time I see things like this, I look back at an email Trevor Blackwell sent me about a month after we closed down our company. YC was above 100 companies&#x2F;batch at that point, and he wasn&#x27;t one of the partners assigned to our company. He took time out to tell us he thought we were special and hoped we would try again at some point. That vote of confidence got me through one of the darkest periods of my life. Garry, Michael, Harj and Geoff have been equally kind. Maybe YC has changed since then, but I doubt it.
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steve_adams_86超过 3 年前
His lens seems to be fixed around the potential of being a unicorn. What YC offers is frankly unprecedented for a lot of people in the world now. Whether they become a unicorn or not, the program is providing opportunities that aren’t as easy to find as this guy is suggesting.<p>Taking 10-14% is huge, sure. I agree. For some people there would be no 10-14% to worry about without an opportunity like this in the first place.<p>It’s about trade offs. To some people this will be totally acceptable. If it’s not to you, there’s no social contract that you have to go through YC. In fact, he more or less explains this in the tweets. If you have other options, great, use them.<p>He seems fairly biased against YC for a handful of reasons.<p>I’m not cheering for YC or anything. I just don’t perceive awful or corrupt motives. Of course they’re a business trying to profit from investing in startups. Of course they want ownership for what they put into the company. It all seems very transparent and easy to follow.
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jedberg超过 3 年前
I&#x27;m a small time angel investor (I write 8-10 $100K checks a year), so YC is really important to me. Almost all my checks are in YC companies. I don&#x27;t have the time nor skills to do proper due diligence, but with YC I don&#x27;t have to. Investing in a YC company provides me with already vetted founders who I know will have an incredible support network and are already well connected. Yes, I give up some upside because of how much YC already owns, but to me it&#x27;s worth every penny for the service that YC provides to me as an investor and to the startup.<p>That&#x27;s the investor side of the equation, which if you believe this thread is his main complaint -- that it&#x27;s too investor friendly.<p>But I also get to see the founder side of the equation. Since I&#x27;m writing such small checks, a lot of my value to the company is offering help at the early stage, often with architecture review or product reviews, and sometimes even interviewing engineering candidates for them. Because of the close relationship, sometimes I end up becoming friends with the founders I invest in. Which lets me see how YC helps them as founders.<p>Need help connecting with someone at company X? There&#x27;s almost always another YC founder who can make the intro. Need more money? YC has got VCs on speed dial for you. Need media coverage? There are journalists from highly respected outlets asking YC for good stories every day. Even basic stuff, like, &quot;I need an accountant&quot; or &quot;I need a lawyer who can handle this special type of law&quot; can be much easier solved with a quick intro from YC.<p>Getting into YC just makes everything else about doing a startup so much easier. It doesn&#x27;t make it <i>easy</i>, because startups are never easy. But it takes away a lot of the low level friction.
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jedwhite超过 3 年前
I&#x27;m in the W22 batch. These tweets bear no relationship to reality. YC is unarguably transformative if you throw yourself into it and listen to the advice.<p>The emotive nature of this thread probably speaks for itself. But for any startup considering issuing equity to anyone - YC or otherwise - there is a simple formula you can use that Paul Graham came up with:<p>1&#x2F;(1 - n)<p>He also put it way better than I can in his essay &quot;Equity Equation&quot;:<p>&quot;You should give up n% of your company if what you trade it for improves your average outcome enough that the (100 - n)% you have left is worth more than the whole company was before.&quot; [1]<p>[1] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.paulgraham.com&#x2F;equity.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.paulgraham.com&#x2F;equity.html</a>
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tus666超过 3 年前
Well if you can get that 500k somewhere else, then take your business elsewhere.<p>At the end of the day, everything is just a deal you can either agree to or walk away from.<p>I get the point of this Twitter thread is to basically say just that, that YC is a bad deal, but so are lots of things in the world. The idea that you should always be looking for the best deal hardly needs to be stated.<p>Is there a marketplace for investors in the world where startups can basically find the best offer, or auction themselves?
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baby超过 3 年前
That was underwhelming. He basically described how an incubator works. You just need to watch shark tank to understand that no deals are born the same. If you can get a better deal somewhere else, then go somewhere else; nobody said YC is the only incubator or way to create a startup here.
rkk3超过 3 年前
All established institutions are on the other side of the deal when you engage with them; wether it is an Ivy League school, IB, Big Tech or VC&#x27;s. They all take something.<p>There are some valid points, people might not be aware of but overall the YC deal still seems better than most alternatives. I think he is discounting how hard it is at that early stage, that first capital needs to come from somewhere. Also YC founders seem to be disproportionately have softer landings if they don&#x27;t go supersonic Unicorn IPO. Maybe you don&#x27;t stand out in the top 10 of your batch and instead get aqui-hired and <i>only make 800k&#x2F;yr</i>.
nunez超过 3 年前
&gt; I’m building a better system; join the waitlist<p>…and there it is.<p>It’s hard to take this seriously given the pitch to compete against YC at the bottom.
cryptodan超过 3 年前
I actually like the comment page style although it could use some redesign like blocks around replies and posts.
tomp超过 3 年前
TL;DR: they take too much equity (“14% of a multi-unicorn is a billion dollars” aka survivorship bias); batches too large (hard to stand out among 400 companies)
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ykevinator2超过 3 年前
Who is he?
robocat超过 3 年前
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;threadreaderapp.com&#x2F;thread&#x2F;1487500943511932941.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;threadreaderapp.com&#x2F;thread&#x2F;1487500943511932941.html</a><p>I was in an incubator program, and there were two serious problems with it, which if you join YC are potential problems too:<p>Problem 1. The belief by founders that they could get good advice from others. This is a dangerous attitude to have programmed into yourself, because when starting a business you must stand on your own feet and trust your own opinions. Listening to others is fine, but it is to easy to cripple yourself by believing in the advice of successful people, and listening to the wrong advice. You need to make your own mistakes. That tightrope is an essential skill as an owner, and I don’t know how it is taught, especially to neophytes. I saw other founders learn to doubt themselves because they were not subject experts in so many areas of their business, and that doubt was damaging to them and their businesses. Yes Listen; yes respect the advice of others; no do not take advice without being careful to validate it for your businesses’ needs. I did also see some founders ignore excellent advice, but at least their businesses died honest deaths without interference!<p>Problem 2. Incubators push businesses to get funded. The push is probably mostly organically due to the atmosphere of competition between founders, plus the expectation that it is just what you do, but also the incubator chiefs push for it. I saw many other companies take money to grow, and then lose control and end up with no meaningful return for their efforts. The problem with all investors I have seen in my country is that they push companies in queer directions, because VC tends to be ego driven: VC investors in New Zealand have strong opinions and they often kill companies. We bootstrapped, which has limited the size of the businesss, but bootstrapping de-risked our returns and we have comfortable lifestyles (albeit without the potential for superyachts and blow).<p>I agree that giving away 1[0-9]% to YC is a lot, but getting $500k of distraction free money is a mighty big carrot. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;randle.substack.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;playing-different-games" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;randle.substack.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;playing-different-games</a> (scroll down to meme of VC with knife behind back, and read below) talks about the benefits of Tiger Global’s hands-off approach to founders where they don’t take board seats. “[Tiger Global] lacks the potential downside that comes from a new highly-involved investor who ends up being more of a drag than a help, or even worse ends up being actively malignant to the board and business.“.<p>One benefit of YC that is not mentioned is bargaining power: if you are using a growth funding model, and you are successful enough to get to the later stages, I would hope that having YC on your side would give you fantastic leverage. Maybe YC’s ownership is not large, but it is enough that they will will avoid the vultures. Also the VCs know that screwing over YC is a high risk manoeuvre because it affects the VC’s other investments or potential for investments - if you are a successful startup without backing then your business could easily become another lonely victim.<p>One thing I am unsure about is the rules for YC dilution: I think that YC is undiluted at your first round, which is not in alignment with founders. I presume after the first round that YC dilution matches founder dilution. Another aspect is that YC shares are preferential, while founders and options are common shares. So YC incentives can be mismatched with founders. The only thing keeping YC honest is the internal integrity of the YC business, and YC’s care for their own reputation for integrity (not shafting founders).
qwertyuiop_超过 3 年前
Sour puss
ivraatiems超过 3 年前
How was YCombinator ever <i>not</i> a &quot;lottery factory&quot;? Isn&#x27;t that the goal of their style of venture capitalism - cast a wide net and profit massively off the few good fat fish that come up?
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jrm4超过 3 年前
I mean, I like this website, but I&#x27;ve <i>never</i> understood why doing a digital business would require loads of investment. Scale is like the whole point of &quot;digital.&quot;<p>I supposed a more nuanced question would be -- has YC made any essentially good businesses? Like &quot;something GOOD that literally would be very difficult to make without tons of extra dollars?&quot; I strongly doubt it, but maybe?
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