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Thank You, Valve

766 点作者 kinduff超过 3 年前

42 条评论

raxxorrax超过 3 年前
Indeed. Valve established DRM to a degree many previously hoped it would get rejected. But they offered a decent service and proved that piracy is a service problem. What they did for Linux as a gaming platform is spectacular. Not many people use it yet, but Windows does look less and less like a dependable long term solution, especially with Microsofts other ambitions in that industry.
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emersion超过 3 年前
To add on this: Valve works with upstream developers on upstream code, so their work benefits the whole FOSS ecosystem. They are funding a lot of kernel, Mesa, Wayland, Wine and KDE developers.<p>(Disclaimer: I&#x27;m a Valve contractor.)
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riidom超过 3 年前
I feel like I am in a &quot;late-game&quot; stage of gaming. I have sort of an overview of what is going on, but a major percentage of games simply look not interesting (anymore) to me.<p>The collection of games I end up playing is somewhere between special and weird, I&#x27;d say.<p>And, to get back to the topic, for people in a comparable situation like me, Linux is a great alternative. So if hear or read other people comparing pros and cons of Win vs. Linux (or Apple vs. Linux), and gaming was the major drawback, think carefully if that applies to you as well.<p>Having a pile of shame on Linux is as easy to do as on Windows, just it&#x27;s smaller (which is good, right?). But having one at all means that you don&#x27;t have a lack of games, but quite the opposite.<p>Of course, when you deeply into AAA and big franchises, and <i>need</i> to play a game when it&#x27;s published and everyone talks about it - then probably not.
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chaps超过 3 年前
Absolutely. I&#x27;ve been stubborn in the past five years or so about Linux gaming where if a game doesn&#x27;t work, I just don&#x27;t play it. And as time went on in the past few years, more and more games just... started working out of the box. Maybe 30% of games worked a few years back and now probably 98% work.<p>It&#x27;s not always perfect (looking at you, borderlands 3), but it works in a vast majority of games I&#x27;ve played. If gaming is a reason preventing others from stepping into Linux based on experiences from even two years ago, definitely check it out again -- it&#x27;s night and day. It&#x27;s been incredible to see how quickly they&#x27;ve been able to make Linux completely viable for gaming.<p>Now about my productivity..
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ribit超过 3 年前
I vehemently disagree with sentiment expressed in the article. Sure, on the surface the work done Valve does significantly improve the state of Linux gaming. But this is not Linux gaming. This is <i>Windows</i> gaming under Linux. We need to think about the long-term effects, about maintaining a healthy ecosystem. I cannot imagine how delegating Linux and Vulkan to be a long-term emulator of DX12 and Win is supposed to be healthy. What about platform autonomy? Shouldn&#x27;t we strive towards a future where Vulkan is a strong, independent API with its own voice and not just an interface for emulating DX12? And one where game developers actively want to support Linux as first class citizen and not just make Windows games and putting all the burden of compatibility on the maintainers of the emulation layer.<p>The worst outcome of this is that the market share and quality of Vulkan implementations will diminish. WebGPU is a strong upcoming API contender on the mobile side, which IMO has a good chance of displacing Vulkan for many applications. And if DXVK works that well on Linux, more developers might end up choosing DX12 and only supporting Windows. Giving up autonomy and becoming a subordinate of a different technology stack is never a good idea. I mean, if this is the way how the Linux community wants to play, then why not make it official and just scrap Vulkan and have a DX-compatible API in place with IHV drivers?
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Rooster61超过 3 年前
I dig most of this article, and I do applaud the work Valve is doing for the Linux gaming ecosystem, but I draw a line at supporting kernel level anti-cheat drivers. That trend in gaming bothers me to no end, and I refuse to knowingly install a game that features one.<p>The presence of 15 year old script kiddies using aimbots does NOT IN ANY WAY justify having kernel level control over my machine, Linux or otherwise. Valve, and every other company that contributes to gaming in general, kindly stay the fuck out of our kernels.<p>EDIT: I feel a few folks in the comments are getting mixed up between the concepts of DRM and kernel-level anti-cheat drivers. DRM is what keeps folks from pirating software, as well as diminishing the freedom of where and how you can install the software. It sucks, but I understand why it exists, and that isn&#x27;t what I&#x27;m talking about here<p>Kernel-level drivers, on the other hand, are drivers that run outside your sphere of influence (so-called user-space) and exist outside the checks and balances of your operating system that keep programs from doing whatever the hell they please.<p>Add on the fact that these programs are black boxes by design, and all of the sudden a company essentially has free reign to do whatever they want with your machine under your nose. This is dangerous and unacceptable.
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mijoharas超过 3 年前
Proton is absolutely amazing. I&#x27;ve started buying a few more indy titles to play a little bit, and they tend to &quot;just work&quot; most of the time now (which definitely didn&#x27;t used to be the case).<p>Even with a somewhat unusual system, and running wayland, the experience is fantastic. (NOTE: I also don&#x27;t tend to buy triple A games on my computer, so that could obviously be an issue).
erwincoumans超过 3 年前
And damn Valve for not supporting a 64 bit Linux Steam client. Having to mess with installing 32bit OpenGL drivers just for Valve, sometimes messing up the installation left a bad taste.<p>At least give users the option to pick either 32bit or 64bit client. I&#x27;m sure many would happily drop 32bit games support for that. And people who want 32bit games pick the 32bit client.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;ValveSoftware&#x2F;steam-for-linux&#x2F;issues&#x2F;179#issuecomment-267790879" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;ValveSoftware&#x2F;steam-for-linux&#x2F;issues&#x2F;179#...</a><p>&quot;Please provide a 64-bit Steam package, so that those of us on 64-bit distros don&#x27;t have to install a gazillion 32-bit packages.&quot;
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JamesMcMinn超过 3 年前
I am very excited by the Steam Deck and have paid for my place in the queue (hopefully some time this year). I am a long time desktop Linux user, however I also game and have either had to dual boot, or more recently, game inside a Windows VM because of DRM and unsupported games.<p>The biggest issue I can can see with the Steam Deck, or more specifically, Linux on the Steam Deck, is Microsoft&#x27;s Game Pass. It simply will not work on Linux, and at the moment, I spend more time playing game via Game Pass than I do via Steam. Microsoft have a very clear direction with their recent purchases of publishers and studios, and I worry that the lack of any sort of Game Pass support (without installing Windows) will hamper the Steam Deck.<p>Of course, Valve are probably hoping that the Steam Deck will discourage Game Pass subscriptions since it eats into their market, but as long as Microsoft are also willing to sell games on Steam, I think having both options is the healthiest for PC gaming overall.
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INTPenis超过 3 年前
Claiming &lt;year&gt; will be the year of the Linux desktop has become a running joke among me and my friends.<p>So I wouldn&#x27;t make such bold claims.<p>But other than that I am completely on board with what the author is saying. I come from the same background. Until just a couple years ago I had a Windows PC solely for gaming. Now I can&#x27;t remember when I last booted Windows on it.<p>Another weird side effect of this gaming revolution on Linux is that I prefer X11 over Wayland.<p>When Wayland became the default in Fedora I was on board, thinking it was the new cool thing. But gradually I realized that it&#x27;s really not ready for the big time. I still need X11 to share my desktop on MS Teams (thanks Microsoft for that btw), and I still need it for most games.
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iamricks超过 3 年前
Considering Valve is private, it&#x27;s very impressive what Gaben has accomplished (and everyone who works there).
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ekianjo超过 3 年前
Recently there has been 250 titles verified for the upcoming Steam Deck: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;boilingsteam.com&#x2F;top-10-new-games-you-can-play-on-linux-with-proton-feb-2022-edition&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;boilingsteam.com&#x2F;top-10-new-games-you-can-play-on-li...</a><p>While not technically &quot;a console&quot; it&#x27;s still one of the best line-up ever for a new hardware launch, and it&#x27;s probably going to be in thousands later this month.
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dncornholio超过 3 年前
Thanks Valve, indeed.<p>But no, 2022 will also not be the year of the Linux desktop. I compare Wine with ductape. It works but don&#x27;t ask how. It&#x27;s fine for casual gamers, but these are few.<p>The year of the Linux desktop will only come when all the developers treat Linux as a native compilation target. When Linux has all the drivers. As long as games get &quot;emulated&quot; on Windows in Linux, people will always choose Windows.
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Vermeulen超过 3 年前
As a game dev it surprises me the constant push from some Linux players to still make a native Linux version, considering how good Valve&#x27;s Proton layer is. I don&#x27;t think they understand that while making a new Linux build can be trivial (in Unity), dealing with all the support issues for that isn&#x27;t. I don&#x27;t have time to track down audio issues for some random Linux version for 0.001% of players<p>Yet if I say I&#x27;ll only support Proton on Linux I am inviting myself to constant hate mail
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tapoxi超过 3 年前
Is it too little, too late? Microsoft now owns a lot of the biggest game franchises through the Activision and Bethesda acquisitions, and I wouldn&#x27;t be surprised if they actively block Proton support by using UWP or Windows-specific anticheat.
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A4ET8a8uTh0超过 3 年前
In a very practical way, I agree with the thought behind the post.<p>Still, I want to offer a counter, because as linux is becoming more and more popular ( I myself am an anecdote since I recently jumped to PopOS as my main driver ), I worry that it will become another Windows. Linux principles are slowly being eroded for the ease and convenience of the user. It is both awesome and awful. Convenience destroyed mobile to me.
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KptMarchewa超过 3 年前
I think the killer feature of the Steam Deck is that it makes Linux gaming desirable. In contrast to their earlier approach with Steam Machines, which made it merely approachable.
grae_QED超过 3 年前
At this point, Valve has yet to disappoint me. Even their failures, like the Steam Controller, were amazing pieces of tech. The Steam Deck is no exception. It&#x27;s exactly what I&#x27;ve been wanting: a SFFPC that doubles as a portable gaming console with Linux natively installed. Bravo Steam!
thrower123超过 3 年前
I still think it&#x27;s a little odd that there is so much celebration of Linux as a semi-viable game platform, when no one makes native Linux ports anymore; they just target Windows, and then Proton provides a Windows API compatability layer.
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lnxg33k1超过 3 年前
I think it&#x27;s more like of a intelligence thing,<p>a lot of software houses in gaming have been working very hard to give windows a competitive advantage in terms of gaming experience<p>in exchange for what? they&#x27;ve been enriching microsoft and proudly so<p>thankfully someone understood that there is a system you can use for free to build cool stuff on top, that doesn&#x27;t try to lock you in, doesn&#x27;t exploit dominant positions to push other software on you, and doesn&#x27;t come with a 5 kilometres long terms of services, I really am unable to understand why people just keep liking being microsoft&#x27;s guinea pigs
roody15超过 3 年前
Agree, Thank you Valve. I play all my games on Arch machine at home. Last few years have been overjoyed with the amount of games that run excellent on my system. To me its a golden time for gaming on Linux!
pdimitar超过 3 年前
All well and good and I support Valve&#x27;s dedication as well. They are doing what everyone else is afraid of doing. Kudos!<p>One thing: stay the hell away from my kernel. I use Linux for the freedom it gives me. If you are going to install a rootkit just so I don&#x27;t aim-bot in your precious little game, the deal is off.<p>I&#x27;ll keep a close eye this year on how do you install Steam&#x27;s layer on Linux. `sudo` will not be ever involved! If I can&#x27;t install it just in my $HOME directory without kernel shenanigans then they&#x27;ll get a huge &quot;Nope!&quot; from me.
Andrew_nenakhov超过 3 年前
The only thing I miss on GNU&#x2F;Linux is a good alternative to CheatEngine, with popular game scripts from FearlessRevolution.org - creative use of such scripts can tremendously improve (single-player) gaming experience.<p>For example, I used to give a huge population boost to computer opponents in Rome: Total War, so they would be able to field big armies for me to crush. Without it they quickly depleted their manpower pool and after the initial clash the game turned into a tedious mopping.
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nimbius超过 3 年前
its worth noting valves monumental effort was largely inspired by the release of the Microsoft store, which at the time (had it succeeded) would have had a significant impact on Valve. Valves support for Linux was a massive strategic success that almost certainly led Redmond to focus more attention on the cloud presence that runs online games and publishing services, instead of directly trying to EEE the playing field.
kache_超过 3 年前
They&#x27;ve also made massive contributions in the open VR space
nvarsj超过 3 年前
I&#x27;ll be happy when I can finally delete my Windows partition, which is used exclusively to play games.<p>I&#x27;ve already moved to Linux for a lot of stuff, because frankly, it just plays games better than Windows 10&#x2F;11. For example, stepmania (a rhythm game) stutters like mad for me on Windows and I&#x27;ve never been able to figure out why - and the debugging process in Windows is akin to black magic. On Linux it just runs buttery smooth with 0 stutters. I can&#x27;t wait until more games are native ported to Linux and&#x2F;or run well in Proton, and I can finally use a single, good OS for everything.
quitit超过 3 年前
I&#x27;m fine with people praising Valve for utilising linux to advance their commercial interests. It&#x27;s an example of a &quot;win win&quot; situation.<p>However I notice on these forums in particular when other tech companies do similar it isn&#x27;t seen so charitably.<p>I speak with a slightly cynical tone because I&#x27;ve seen this story before - the catalyst to the changing public opinion has been less about what the companies actually do and more about when competitors emerge and engage PR campaigns to recast the incumbent as evil and the newcomer as a saviour.<p>One should keep their eyes open to see if the same happens to Valve.
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txdv超过 3 年前
I think they started using their proton layer for dota2. I am lately experiencing lags during their heavy animations when presenting Arcana and special game modes, other than that it works fine. I have a lot of games since I buy 3 year old games for 5 dollars and most of them work fine. The newest games with special anti cheat systems probably do not work.<p>But this is a huge step. They are ahead of the competition. If the competition wants to offer something better than Steam they now need to invest heavily in linux support which increases the costs of development significantly.
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nameisname超过 3 年前
This is great but I still dislike that valve has no customer support whatsoever. They also offer no refunds for errors in their system. I&#x27;ve been in situations where I purchase something off the market and it says &quot;could not find an item at that price&quot; and purchases it anyway without updating the screen. This resulted in me having multiple of the same item and they wouldn&#x27;t even acknowledge the issue. I&#x27;m anti steam until they fix their huge customer service black hole. There&#x27;s no excuse.
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tomphoolery超过 3 年前
Valve is great until they have to make a 3rd of something.
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Namidairo超过 3 年前
&gt; Here we are today, waiting for the Steam Deck.<p>Is that a figure of speech or a reference to the fact that the hardware preview coverage is dropping today (I believe)?
fareesh超过 3 年前
As a consumer, Valve comes across like Google. They build products and features and then they often sit untouched, sometimes for years. They are terrible at communicating to their playerbase and even their contracted talent.<p>The DOTA2 community has had to deal with these aspects of Valve for years. CS:GO is now also essentially a forgotten project, and within the span of just a couple of months, the FPS crowd is moving on to other newcomer games.<p>This might be armchair speculation but it seems like since Google is making so much money from ads and Valve is making so much money from Steam, that their projects don&#x27;t really get the kind of management and focus from the organization that is mutually compatible with the other stakeholders - customers, players, tournament organizers, businesses, etc. These are drops in the ocean compared to their real revenue streams.<p>I guess as far as this particular story is concerned, I wouldn&#x27;t be surprised if Valve just abandoned this project at some point too once it&#x27;s launched, and moved on to something else. At least in this case they&#x27;ve done a great amount of work for open-source which is fantastic because others can build on their contributions. I don&#x27;t really expect these aspects of the culture at Valve to change in this regard, as frustrating as it is from the outside, I&#x27;m sure it makes a lot more sense from the inside.
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donatj超过 3 年前
I hope Valve brings something like they have done for Linux to macOS.<p>I opened Steam the other day, and by default it’s filtered to only show the games my system can play. I was curious how many games I’d lost to Apple dropping support for 32 bit, I’d never looked before. I can play 94 of my 345 Steam games.<p>My heart literally sunk when I saw this.
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LoveGracePeace超过 3 年前
I&#x27;ve been gaming happily on Linux for years. Top and&#x2F;or good games like Dying Light, ARK. The rest I played using Wine with tweaks. Proton is great and Valve should be applauded but the future of gaming on Linux or Linux Desktop in general doesn&#x27;t rest now on any one company and it never has.
w4rh4wk5超过 3 年前
Big thanks to DXVK at this point. Even when you are not running on Linux directly, having a DX11 -&gt; Vulkan translation layer makes porting (older) games to other platforms so much easier.<p>Of course, there are also other projects like FAudio that do an awesome job!
amval超过 3 年前
Off-topic, but that is a really nice personal page, I really like the design :)
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sydbarrett74超过 3 年前
Kernel anti-cheat drivers are rootkits. Full stop.
pschastain超过 3 年前
Anybody else get a &quot;Potential Security Risk&quot; warning for the site? Using Firefox 96.0.3 under Linux Mint 20.3 Cinnamon
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gumby超过 3 年前
The way Valve works suggests this is less a policy of Valve the company than the desire of a few devs who work there.
rubyist5eva超过 3 年前
Valve doesn&#x27;t want your thanks - they want your money. Did the author even buy a Steam Deck?
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KaoruAoiShiho超过 3 年前
RIP Codeweavers.
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deltaonefour超过 3 年前
Keep in mind valve is a business first. There interest is profitability. Its just that the direction of their interest happens to align with Linux. This is good, but if at some point in time it doesn&#x27;t align, don&#x27;t be surprised.