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Groupon Restates Revenue, Revenue Fell In Half, COO Exits

236 点作者 chailatte超过 13 年前

32 条评论

grandalf超过 13 年前
All this finger shaking is misplaced.<p>Groupon's accounting was legitimate as a management accounting approach, and any savvy investor should have realized this.<p>Do you think that Google's acquisition offer was naive to the basic accounting approach used by the firm? Of course it wasn't.<p>The knee-jerk criticisms of Groupon's accounting are coming from the same naive viewpoint as those who demanded mark-to-market accounting practices (which helped trigger the housing crash).<p>The use of accounting to measure business valuation is more an art than a science, and no savvy person should be fooled either by a firm's decision not to mark the price of an asset to market or to consider ramp-up costs temporary.<p>If you're thinking of investing, be sure you understand how the accounting works and that you are comfortable with why management is doing it that way.<p>There is no reasonable way to compare two companies in different industries using a standardized accounting method. Even GAAP is not designed to do that. It's a nuance of business valuation and ultimately in the case of a company like GroupOn the valuation is mostly due to what investors are willing to pay.<p>And yes, it's reasonable for a firm to choose one accounting approach over another b/c it makes the company easier to manage, or b/c it makes it easier to show the company's true strengths to the market (aka investors).
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gojomo超过 13 年前
This miscalculation of revenue was one of the major issues highlighted by these two business/accounting professors:<p><a href="http://blogs.smeal.psu.edu/grumpyoldaccountants/archives/281" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.smeal.psu.edu/grumpyoldaccountants/archives/281</a> "TRUST NO ONE, PARTICULARLY NOT GROUPON’S ACCOUNTANTS"<p>Their two other major concerns:<p>• Groupon's positive cash-flow is a temporary illusion:<p>"After downplaying the ACSOI, Groupon has begun touting its 2010 free cash flow of $72.2 million (operating cash flow of $86.9 million less property and equipment purchases of $14.7 million). Unfortunately, operating and free cash flows are driven solely by the fact that Groupon is dragging its feet in remitting coupon sale payments to its merchants. Had merchants been paid in a timely fashion, the Company’s free cash flows would likely have been closer to zero and possibly even negative. Seriously, in a competitive market space, how long does Groupon believe that it can get away with a 60 day payment delay (or longer) to merchants? Merchants simply cannot stay in business by providing services (even discounted ones), two months ahead of payment. Simply put, Groupon’s free cash flows aren’t real. They come from an unusual (and likely temporary) vendor financing model, and are not sustainable."<p>• Groupon's internal controls are inadequate to make their self-reported numbers credible:<p>"It is absolutely ludicrous to think that Groupon is anywhere close to having an effective set of internal controls over financial reporting having done 17 acquisitions in a little over a year. When a company expands to 45 countries, grows merchants from 212 to 78,466, and expands its employee base from 37 to 9,625 in only two years, there is little doubt that internal controls are not working somewhere. Any M&#38;A expert will agree. And don’t forget that Groupon admitted to having an inexperienced accounting and reporting staff. Note that Ernst &#38; Young supplied an audit opinion about the financial statements but not about the entity’s internal control system. E&#38;Y instead points out, “We were not engaged to perform an audit of the Company’s internal control over financial reporting. Our audits included consideration of internal control over financial reporting as a basis for designing audit procedures that are appropriate in the circumstances, but not for the purpose of expressing an opinion on the effectiveness of the Company’s internal control over financial reporting.” So we ask how have these weak or nonexistent controls affected the numbers Groupon reports? Can we trust these numbers?"<p>Groupon's business-professor cofounder, Eric Lefkofsky, has dumped about $382 million of his shares in the prior private financings.
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physcab超过 13 年前
I'm not sure saying "revenue fell in half" is accurate. It looks like they are clarifying what revenue it actually makes ie, instead of counting the full value of the coupon as revenue, they are now adjusting revenue numbers to reflect what their cut of the coupon is. Still sort of shady that they were quoting the first number to begin with...unless that is totally common, which I wouldn't know.
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danilocampos超过 13 年前
"Previously, when it sold a restaurant gift certificate for $10, for instance, it would book the full amount, even though a portion went to the business owner."<p>I keep trying to think of something to say about this. I'm speechless.<p>What else do you need to know to accept that these guys are dishonest?
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Pewpewarrows超过 13 年前
This really begs the question: who the hell is in charge there? How do you not take one look at your finances and immediately jump on a multi-billion dollar buyout that a giant internet company offers you? Or did Google get a closer look at their books and see this coming?
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antimora超过 13 年前
"The chief operating officer, Margo Georgiadis, is returning to Google" ... nice way for Google to get an inside into Groupon
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SurfScore超过 13 年前
I've always thought Groupon was funny. I could start a business where my sole business plan was that for every 95 cents you gave me, I would give you a dollar, no strings attached. I'd probably have a billion in "revenue" even quicker than Groupon, and I would probably be more profitable too. This might be a gross oversimplification, but it's still true.
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maukdaddy超过 13 年前
They <i>really</i> should have taken the $8 billion from Google.
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Hyena超过 13 年前
Wasn't there a post a few months back claiming the current tch market wasn't a bubble because during the last bubble firms bent over backwards to claim revenue and now they don't?
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_delirium超过 13 年前
On the plus side, at least this happened pre-IPO. It'd be a giant legal shitstorm if they restated revenues <i>after</i> selling shares in an IPO.
vaksel超过 13 年前
the groupon rise and implosion has been pretty spectacular
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vacanti超过 13 年前
Headline could be improved.<p>While revenue fell in half, gross margin just increased 50%! In other words, this is just perception and has no bearing on the performance of the actual business.<p>Also, headline seems to imply that COO left because "revenue fell in half". There's no reason to believe that.
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InclinedPlane超过 13 年前
Can someone explain to me why Groupon's margins are so thin/negative? Don't they basically take half of the revenue that comes in as part of a groupon? Shouldn't their overhead be little more than the site, plus sales staff, plus devs? Where does their money go?
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dennisgorelik超过 13 年前
Would Groupon survive for another year or would it file bankruptcy?
8ig8超过 13 年前
Has Jason Fried added anything to this discussion after announcing he left the board? I'd be interested in his take as a past insider.
sunchild超过 13 年前
Remember this quote from Mason's leaked memo: "We are generating cash, not losing it — we generated $25M in cash last quarter alone, adding to the $200M we had before. In other words, we’re doing the opposite of running out of money."<p>He chose the words "generating cash" carefully. If it wasn't contrary to his point, he should have addressed revenue instead.
blantonl超过 13 年前
A past discussion that seems to be playing out:<p><a href="http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2980323" rel="nofollow">http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2980323</a>
mikeryan超过 13 年前
How much longer is Andrew Mason going to be in charge at Groupon? His head has to be on the chopping block at this point right?
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RexRollman超过 13 年前
This IPO is looking more and more like a scam.
linuxhansl超过 13 年前
I still cannot believe that Google was willing to $6bn! The non-scaling nature of GroupOn always seemed obvious to me.
tlogan超过 13 年前
I don't know. As far as I know, Priceline (PCLN) is doing the same thing. Are they going to push PCLN do the same?
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djiddish98超过 13 年前
OT - When I first read this article, the former COO's last name was spelled 3 different ways.<p>Yes, there are a handful of vowels there, so I can understand how the WSJ still left one misspelling at the end of the article after editing the original.
jprobert超过 13 年前
It's amazing to me how far Groupon has fallen recently. I'm curious to see if investors file lawsuits against the founders for misappropriation of funds given that the founders took so much money off the table.
callmeed超过 13 年前
Is there any possibility that current/past investors in Groupon sue the company because <i>they</i> invested based on bad financials?
itswindy超过 13 年前
I smelled a rat, especially when they started to open offices in places like Bulgaria just for the hype.
zmanji超过 13 年前
How were their initial steps legal? How can a company file for an IPO with such bullshit metrics?
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krobertson超过 13 年前
It is kind of entertaining watching Groupon slowly implode...
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marcamillion超过 13 年前
Definitely the beginning of the end...if there was ever one.
dreamdu5t超过 13 年前
Didn't we all see this coming for a long time?
clobber超过 13 年前
So much for that spectacular business model that revolutionizes local business. The Groupon pump and dump will make a good chapter in a finance textbook someday.
mkramlich超过 13 年前
the technical MBA term for this is "oops!"
arctangent超过 13 年前
I really don't know how some of these people aren't in jail already. It's as if everyone forgot that Enron happened.
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