I want to pay for TextMate 2

I have a lot of trouble understanding this mentality.<p>I totally get paying when you don't have to in order to support fellow developers. I've got a nice collection of apps on my phone and desktop, all purchased, that I've acquired over the years to support my friends' development efforts. So if Marco wants to help out Macromates, that's fine. More power to him.<p>But I don't understand this mantra of, "We'll forgive you; just charge everyone." Let's ignore entirely whether that's a contract violation and just focus on whether it's fair.<p>Zoom back several years to the era Marco's talking about. TextMate 1.0 ships. It's a nice editor--really nice, actually--but it has a lot of rough edges to it. But, Allen promises, buy now anyway; upgrades through version 2.0 are completely free. So a lot of people, including me, slapped down money to buy version 1.0 on this promise. (And in my case, also to support an upstart dev who was daring to take down the 800-pound gorilla of Mac text editors, Bare Bones' BBEdit.)<p>But that promise never materialized. TextMate got a lot of improvements initially, but there's now a relatively large collection of third-party plugins you need just to achieve parity with the now-native versions of Vim and Emacs that can be had for free.<p>And in exchange for not shipping anything for literally <i>years</i>, you want to <i>reward</i> him by <i>paying him more</i>?<p>What am I missing here?

Contrast the TextMate situation to that of Sublime Text. Jon Skinner has done an amazing job of shipping something compelling early, updating it often, developing out in the open and giving his customers a good reason to buy the product even though <i>it's still in beta</i>.<p>Allan Odgaard has made promises as to the quality and ship date of his product, and that's about it (to be fair, there have been 1.x updates). At this point the promise of a free upgrade combined with the boatloads of cash TM1 made are almost certainly what put future product development on perpetual hold. Far from just avoiding that promise, he should have avoided talking about future versions <i>at all</i>.<p>For me the choice is pretty clear. I finally deleted TM from ~/Applications a few weeks ago and haven't really looked back. Sublime Text 2 isn't perfect, but it is already very close to being everything I need for my day to day development and general editing tasks. Even though it isn't stable, I use it nearly every day, and it just keeps getting better.

"Given the value that we get out of TextMate, it’s already grossly underpriced. Please let us give you more money"<p>The value for you isn't probably the same for all the customers.<p>Some people make millions from the work of the Apache Foundation for example but others use their web server to run little websites. Some would probably pay tons of money for it, others won't.<p>I am not saying that a upgrade fee for TextMate 2 will not be fair, but that is solely at the author's discretion.

TextMate 2 is the <i>perfect</i>, yet heartbreaking example of Brook's Second-system effect. It's painful seeing an otherwise successful developer get so completely sucked into it.

Maybe he should use the "pay what you want" pricing concept for upgrades. Anyone who wants his free upgrade can't complain. But he'll end up getting paid some, too.

The assumption here is that TM2 is better than TM1. Lets see if that holds.

Simple solution: Optional payment. Keep the promise of a free upgrade, but add the option to pay anyways if someone really likes it (if the current TextMate is any indication, many will).<p>I wish all software was sold like this: You get the full version for free, no restrictions, no nagging (perhaps a reminder once a month). If you really like it, you get the option to (easily, avoiding PayPal) pay for it. Heck, you might even let people choose the price.<p>Of course this would work only for software that makes people think: "Hey, someone really spent a lot of effort into making just the right tool for the job". Microsoft Office might not benefit from this method of "voting with your money" - but then that would probably be a good thing too.

A simple solution to this problem - for existing users, allow them to choose their own price for the upgrade. Some people feel like they deserve a free version (maybe they just bought Textmate recently), while others have been using it for years and feel like Allen deserves to be paid for version 2.

I just bought it because I expected the free upgrade, and was patiently waiting. I don't plan on paying for it again.

While we wait for TM2, you can supercharge/augment TextMate 1's full-project search capabilities with ackmate. It's an indispensible tool for me:<p><a href="https://github.com/protocool/ackmate" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/protocool/ackmate</a>

I absolutely agree. TextMate is still my favorite editor. I switched to it from vim in 2007 and have occasionally looked back and around at other editors, but always return to TM.<p>Everyone on my team also uses TextMate all day, every day. We'd be happy to pay for TextMate 2.

Giving TM2 as a free upgrade probably does make a lot of sense to the developers. Textmate is hugely popular, and I wouldn't be surprised if he gets more than enough to finance what he wants to do off of its sales. And by making it free he makes sure that no one has a reason to use TM1 anymore, keeping his userbase unified and easier to handle.<p>It's also worth mentioning that licences from one discount bundle (MacHeist) will require an upgrade fee, a smart distinction to make.<p>Buttt, this is a case where he is severely undervaluing his software, which isn't helping in a market where software is already too cheap. The developers are doing less harm to themselves then they are the Mac software community.

I have tried using a lot of other text editors over the past year or so—trying to find a viable replacement for TextMate. Each time someone in HN mentions Sublime or MacVim or new hotness text editor X, I give it a shot, use it for a couple of days to see if it sticks. I even tried going back to BBEdit—the editor I used for years and years before TextMate. To me, nothing compares. I'm not sure exactly what it is about it, but it just feels right to me. I even use only maybe 2% of what it's capable of. Still, there's something 'correct' about it.<p>In fact, I often think to myself, "Self, if TextMate 2 never came to be and you 'had' to use your current dusty version for the rest of your life, you'd be a.o.k. fine and dandy. Maybe by the time you stopped using a computer (and therefore TextMate 1.x), you'd have learned to type a little faster and maybe learned to use another 2% of the available features. Maybe, if TextMate 2 came out, you'd still prefer what you're using now." I totally agree with myself, then move along—happily coding away for yet another day in TextMate current.<p>So, when TextMate 2 comes out, I'll download it and give it a shot—just like all the others. If it sticks, and helps me enjoy my work a little bit more, then, just like everything else that does, I'll purchase it so I can keep using it.<p>The makers of TextMate will decide to do whatever they think is best for them regarding the price &#38; past promises of free software, but I'm with the Marco.org fella in seeing (and paying money in exchange for) value in well crafted tools.

I am pretty much a die hard BBEdit user for the past 15 years, but I purchased a copy TextMate years ago. I think it would create a lot of bad will if 2.0 was a forced paid upgraded.<p>I think TM2 should be free for TM1 buyers via macromates.com, but cost full price via the Apple App Store.

I've been trying to find some rationality in all this. I think it's crystal clear. The REASON Marco has been using version 1.x since 2006 is because there IS no version 2.0.<p>It's NOT any of our faults that the upgrade wasn't there 6 months later. That was the developer's fault<i>. If it had come out 6 months to a year later, the revenue generated by 1.x would have most likely covered his "salary". But that money was obviously spent somewhere else... at his discretion. Now we have people saying, "it's ok, we'll pay again." Sure, I used the software since 2005, but only because for most of that time, there was NOTHING better. In no way is that my fault.<p></i>I mean absolutely no disrespect to Textmate, its developer or anyone else. As a developer, I understand that rightfully, family, obligations, and more lucrative projects can get in the way of one's pet projects.

I switched back to Emacs from TextMate. Never looked back.

Speak for yourself. The only reason TM2 is a free upgrade, or even coming out at all is that Sublime Text 2 is eating up the cash cow that was TM1 and soon TM user base will go away unless he does something about it.

This is somewhat OT but I've used EditPlus under Windows for almost eight years and have paid $35 twice -- v2 and v3. Same with FileZilla.<p>When it's worth it, it's worth it. a lot of people feel the same way about TextMate.

I'm sure the author of the posting could simply donate to the dev via paypal. It's similar to those "rich" people who are demanding to pay higher taxes. That's a nonsense argument because they can donate to the US Treasury just as a dev could donate to the TextMate guy. I am tired of people suggesting to other people how to spend everyone else's money. If you want to pay more -- do it yourself.<p>For the rest of us, I'll pay what I'm required and donate if I feel so inclined. I'd personally rather donate to the Tiny Wings guy simply because paying $60 for a text editor is fairly steep, if you aren't getting the version 2 update for free. And Tiny Wings has better music. Logic Studio is only $299, compared to a text editor's $60 and Xcode is free. The amount of coding that went into Logic is light years beyond TextMate, but Apple knows that if they charged $1000 for it (a fair price based on feature set, they'd lose more revenue than charging $299.) I'm not a business school guy, but I do know a thing or two about demand elasticity. Try charging $4.99 for an app in the App Store and charge $1.99 -- you'll make more money at $1.99, unless it's some highly niche product; TextMate is far from highly niche. It's ubiquitous.<p>I have paid for TextMate and have no problems doing so, but I'll be damned if some jackass suggests that we should pay more. That's a business decision to be made by the TextMate dev, not some user who likely has very little experience in selling software to the public. No offense to anyone, but based on the posting, it appears that the author has little understanding of demand curves, not to mention contractual agreements.

He should start a donation fund to pay for the development of TextMate2. I'd happily throw a few hundred $$$ into that. I own TextMate 1, so I get the update for free.<p>Problem for him is, he'd open himself up to litigation if he tried to charge for TextMate 2. However I'm also of the opinion that the lack of release is due to the lack of cash. If he could see money rolling in via "donations" maybe he'd be more capable of paying his bills and continuing to develop his great editor.

I can see both sides of the coin. I understand that a lot of people may have bought TextMate because they were told the update to 2.0 would be free (otherwise they may have waited). However, with as big as TextMate is and how a guy with little or no team was able to create it, he can't possibly afford to offer it to free for the thousands of people who bought the original one.<p>I think it would be perfectly fair to offer a discounted price to those who bought TextMate 1.0 (as opposed to free). That's a pretty fair thing to do IMHO. Many others said it, but if you are shelling out all the big bucks to buy a Mac, spending a few more bucks on an outstanding piece of software. It is a good way to show your support to the developer and make him continue sending out updates.<p>Just imagine the scenario where he does offer it for free, makes virtually no profit, and then ends up quitting support for TextMate 2 (as in making bug fixes, features, etc) because he can't afford to just live off of doing that. We all lose in that scenario.<p>I'm a student with lots of debt, but I will buy TextMate 2 full price because it's a good investment. Even if he does offer it for free, it would be a great gesture to buy it anyway or at least open up a donation thing for him.<p>Can't wait for its release!

I'll solve both issues: TextMate Gold. It's a special version for TextMate 1 licensees that decide to pay the extra upgraded prices (or unlicensed users who pay an extra 39 EUR). No extra features, it just adds a gold titlebar (preferences controllable, of course), and puts your name in gold lettering in the about box. People like Marco can feel better about themselves, and no one who bought TextMate 1.x feels screwed over.

Several commenters here, and on other threads and across the web have complained about no progress since forever ago. And while the core product may not have changed, bundles and plugins have continued to be created/updated, so it's not like things have been completely stagnant all this time.<p>Sure, there's angst at a lack of communication, but that doesn't mean the TM community has stagnated the entire time.

I think Alan could make money writing a book about the development of TextMate 2.0. I'm curious what happened and what lessons were learned.

The problem is that, from an accounting perspective, money that should've been funding TM2 is considered TM1 revenue. So it looks like he is giving away TM2 for free, even though many, including myself, only bought TM1 for TM2. I think Sublime Text is smart for charging for the ST2 beta in order to avoid this problem.<p>Macromates should've charged new customers for the TM2 beta while he had a chance years ago. I bought TM1 recently. There was no good reason I should've been paying for TM1 in late 2010. I should've been buying and helping to fund TM2 directly, even if it was an alpha release. I don't know what held up TM2 development, but Sublime Text 2 has shown that people are willing to pay for a broken unfinished product if it has potential. Now he has a whole bunch customers, myself included, to unnecessarily grandfather in.

I had no idea Textmate 2 would be a free upgrade for Textmate 1 users. I would gladly pay for Textmate 2 as well.

"You promised the free update in a different era, probably expecting different circumstances. Things have changed."<p>True, but not how he means it. Now people expect lifetime free upgrades from smaller software packages. There's no Instapaper 2.0, for instance, and probably never will be.

Seriously people just use Sublime Text if you can't figure out Vim (I use both). Author is super responsive, cranks out really awesome features every week, totally someone who is worth throwing money at.<p>And both of them are cross-platform ie. Linux, Mac, Win, you rule them all.

What are all the features that everyone wants? Why all the hype?<p>I gave up on TM2 a long time ago, but that doesn't mean I switched to another editor; I still use TM1 everyday. However, when I purchased TM1, I was promised TM2 for free, and therefore I'll have it for free.

If TextMate 2 is great software new customers will buy the software. If TextMate does not come out with a new version, other editors like Sublime Text 2 will deprecate TextMate. If MacroMates wants to sell more licenses of TextMate they will need to be competitive with the other more modern editing software. MacroMates should hold to the existing contract that subsequent versions are free to upgrade to for TextMate 1. If they want to change that with TextMate 2 licences, that is fine. If you want to entice MacroMates to develop TextMate 2 with money write them a check and tell them what the money is for or buy a new license when the new version comes out.

Wanting to pay more is certainly a valid and generous thing to want to do.<p>However, it is a bit grating that Marco presumes to speak for all customers of this product by using the word "we". I don't presume to speak for Marco, he should speak for himself only.

While I totally appreciate the generosity of Macro, I totally condemn Macro's speaking for the entire buyer community as in "We will not hold you to it" &#38; "Please let us give you more money".<p>For Allan, money sure is good but reputation is still better.

Vim is still free.

What I like about the Free software is that if the main author dies or stops working on the project, I can pick up where he left off instead of write blog posts saying we should all give him more money.

Back when I pirated TextMate 1 (probably in 2006 or so) I told myself that I'd pay for it when 2.0 came out. I still plan to, though I'll admit that it's been longer than I thought it would be.

Blah, blah, blah. I seem to remember all versions free up to but not including version 2. Anyways, aside from it being a little bit better then Notepad++ mostly in UI. It's OK. I personally roll with: Textmate for local dev @ home &#38; vim, Dreamweaver &#38; Notepad++ @ work and Eclipse &#38; gEdit @ school. Personally if I could find an IDE that isn't as heavy as Eclipse that can roll HTML, java, php, css, coldfusion, ruby, bash, javascript and C I'd happily convert from 6 different editors to 1. ... #justSayin

Just for interest's sake can anyone point to this 'promise' of a free upgrade to version 2? I bought TM1 and it played no part on my buying decision because I was not not aware of any such guarantee.<p>If this promise was made then IMHO his best option is to adopt the Firefox/Chrome numbering scheme: stabilise and release whatever he has now as TM2.<p>He should also change the licensing to free updates for 12 months from date of purchase and continue working on TM3.

While you were talking, a new update for ST2 has arrived :)

I agree. I would gladly pay full price for TextMate 2, even although I paid for it the first time around. Of all the software I've bought over the years, TextMate is the one product that I use every day.<p>I'd started looking at Sublime Text 2 as a possible replacement, as it's got some really nice features. The TM2 announcement fills me with hope that I may not have to do that... so I'll hang in there a bit longer.

I don't really own a Mac nor do I use TextMate but over the years, I have heard about its greatness. I am just dying to ask this but why not put an optional paid upgrade? That way, if someone feels like paying for it, you'd know :)<p>Sublime Text 2 (which is my TextMate :) on Windows) uses something like this - keep using it and pay when you feel like model and I absolutely love it!

I find it depressing that some people in the comments here wouldn't want to pay for a _key tool of their trade_ - assuming they work with texts professionally as programmers, bloggers, designers etc. Even 10% increase in productivity will pay for Textmate license in 10 days, assuming you get at least a minimum wage.

I find it interesting how he feels that software purchased through discount bundles are not proper.

He could just do what everyone else is doing: move to the Mac App Store and charge everyone again.

When I bought, I remember reading the free upgrades part, but I had thought it was only up "TO" version 2.0 not including 2.0. Somehow I just assume that major upgrades are fair game for upgrade fees.<p>So...if 2.0 is truly a major upgrade I'm more than willing to pay the $60.<p>Count me in!

If as a current TextMate user I'll have to pay for TextMate 2 I'll just switch to MacVim.

Understandable perspective from a successful independent app developer.

I will be paying for the upgrade. It's a full digit release that's been a kagillion years in the making. I've gotten my $'s worth out of all the 1.X's to date.

Being ashamed of buy discounted software is kind of stupid.

Sounds good, long as we are making developer requests.<p>Hey Marco, I want to pay for a really good kindle sync of instapaper, stop being so iOS focused.

There seems to be a lot of bickering along the lines of "business is business, and he should keep his promise of business"... Which doesn't quite make sense to me. If I were him, I'd charge all yall $80, but up it to $90 if you sent me an email about free upgrades. Buy it, or don't buy it. You love the product. you ponied up for a mac. I suspect somehow I'd sell enough to not be able to give a rats ass what you think. That's business my friends.

Just present an optional payment screen, maybe a <i>pay as much as you want</i> scheme, to those who are upgrading.<p>2. Get rich

Tell Alan to put a donation badge on the site. Problem SOLVED !!!

TextMate 2.0 will be free. Maybe TextMate 2.0.1 will cost $79. Maybe if enough people support TextMate 2.0 by paying for it, the rest of the freeloaders will get 2.0.1 for free, as well.

What would people like to see in TM2? I'll start:<p>- window splits - better inline search (i.e., from hitting /), so that the find/replace window isn't covering up the editor window

&#60;snarky&#62;Those jerks at Microsoft who have the nerve to charge for things at every major release...&#60;/snarky&#62;

its should be a paid upgrade... its taken too much time to be a freebee ..

It's strange how so many people are waiting for a number.<p>As far as I can tell, there have been almost no feature promises, so the TM developer would be perfectly within his rights to add the 1 or 2 promised features, bump the version to 2, and fulfil his contractual obligations.

Oh la la, look at this guy, he has money!

Me too.

WE WANT TEXTMATE FOR WINDOWS ABSOLUTELY

Paying for a <i>text editor</i>. Boggles the mind.

Marco, learn a new editor, don't be lazy and a rockstar.