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George Hotz against the institutions

220 点作者 ryeguy_24大约 3 年前

31 条评论

md2020大约 3 年前
Has anyone in this thread who is commenting to hate on Hotz&#x2F;Comma tried the product or even watched a video of it? I have their device in my car, and I love it. Lots of people in here saying this is doomed to fail and that e2e won’t work seem to not realize that Comma has pretty much already succeeded. Their e2e lateral policy is fantastic, and e2e longitudinal is shipping this year probably. They livestream demos on YouTube and it looks like e2e longitudinal is coming along nicely, here’s a stream from 3 months ago: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;wHoLW9WXOy8" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;wHoLW9WXOy8</a>
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mark_l_watson大约 3 年前
George Hotz has been on Lex Fridman’s podcast a few times <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;lexfridman.com&#x2F;george-hotz&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;lexfridman.com&#x2F;george-hotz&#x2F;</a><p>Hotz has an interesting take on life and tech. If you have time, listen to one of Lex’s conversations with Hotz while you are getting exercise, gardening, etc.<p>I like Hotz’s idea of generic equipment that works on multiple types of cars.<p>Off topic a little, but the Honda Pilot we bought a year ago has some driver assist technology, and we love it. I like driving myself, but having safety backups like monitoring blind spots, lane changes, staying inside lanes, etc. That said, I am willing to wait for full autonomous driving until they really get it right.
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bko大约 3 年前
&gt; Apart from a criminal streak, Hotz shares with Raskolnikov, Dostoyevsky’s antihero, a predilection for instrumental reason and an urge to test his own mettle, to know himself by knowing his limits. As a young adult Hotz allowed himself to become addicted to prescription opiates almost as an experience in self-mastery. “I did it, I was addicted, and I quit,” he told me. “I think I had to have that experience. I don’t think I ever could have been the type who never tried it. Because in some ways I feel that if I’m not strong enough to defeat that and overcome it…” He paused for several beats before assuring me he’d never want anyone to follow his example. “In order to quit,” he continued, “it required me to rethink what I wanted out of life. After that, one of the biggest things that changed is I stopped caring about money.”<p>This tells you the kind of personality Hotz is. I wouldn&#x27;t want to compete against this guy. He might self-destruct, but there is something to say about his extreme personality that&#x27;s beneficial to solving hard problems
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dharma1大约 3 年前
Comma con from last year <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;qTaPD0l_8PM" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;qTaPD0l_8PM</a><p>I think Tesla could do with higher dynamic range cameras, in adverse lighting conditions you end up with a lot of blown out details otherwise. The AR0231’s comma use are like $300-400, not that much<p>I’ve changed my opinion about Hotz over the last few years, like the guy. He came across a bit of a Randroid on Fridman but he’s entertaining and smart
Traster大约 3 年前
To be honest, it&#x27;s just a little sad that reading this article it seems that Hotz hasn&#x27;t grown up much, and that attitude isn&#x27;t great to see from a person working on a safety critical application. If you want to put your hands in the life of George Hotz fine, but keep the hell away from the public roads.
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29athrowaway大约 3 年前
George Hotz is an interesting person. He has a YouTube channel with coding sessions and a Twitch channel that&#x27;s worth watching.<p>The guy sometimes goes on 10+ hour long livecoding marathons.
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dang大约 3 年前
Small but interesting previous thread:<p><i>Ride or Die: George Hotz against the institutions</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=30607829" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=30607829</a> - March 2022 (3 comments)
andersonmvd大约 3 年前
Reading hint: if you prefer to listen instead of reading when the article is big, at least on iphone I use safari -&gt; reader mode -&gt; scroll 2 fingers from top to bottom and it starts the dictation (I think I had to enable in accessibility). There may be something for android.
jeffreygoesto大约 3 年前
He&#x27;s a brilliant kid, but also boasting about things he has no clue about. We built 120db cameras into series production cars since 2005. Took one guy being brilliant in FPGAs and me implementing HDR tonemapping it down for processing on those small CPUs we had back then.
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CyberRabbi大约 3 年前
Interesting discussion of AI and the decline of civilization. His allergies to power are a bit naive though not completely unfounded, at least Stallman comes to mind as an example of someone who was able to change the course of history without much personal power, instead he crafted ideas that had power. Some ideas are powerful enough to compel enough people to act in line with them. Ultimately accomplishing anything at a large scale requires large scale cooperation. Whether the reason is money, submission to authority, or ideological conviction.
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TimPC大约 3 年前
I feel sorry for him. Spending your life trying to make it into a good story is sad. Most good stories have characters who are intentionally flawed in order to create conflict and plot. The best lives are fairly boring as far as narrative plot goes. It’s even a curse to live in interesting times.
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YeGoblynQueenne大约 3 年前
&gt;&gt; Once he achieves his goal of building a fully autonomous driving system, one sophisticated enough that the human “driver” can take a nap as the car navigates to its destination, Hotz says his ultimate ambition, which he settled on at age fifteen, is to “solve AI” That is, to “build something that can do everything a human can do.”<p>This has been the ambition of many people in AI research for a long time but I really have to wonder: isn&#x27;t this ambition a little too ambitious? More than sixty years after Dartmouth, we still can&#x27;t build &quot;something&quot; (a machine) that can do everything a _cockroach_ can do. We can&#x27;t even build something that can do _anything_ a cockroach can do.<p>Aren&#x27;t we putting the cart before the horses then? Surely, someone who can create autonomous vehicles and machines that &quot;can do everything a human can do&quot; should be able to create a machine with the autonomy and intelligence of a cockroach, or some other insect (not a eusocial one! Oh gods, no). So let&#x27;s see anyone with the same great ambitions as George Hotz do that first. Then we can talk about autonomous vehicles and artificial humans.
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trdtaylor1大约 3 年前
If I were president, I would give Hotz a mid-tier medal, as its people like him that empower America, lead to our world dominance, and create the billion dollar industries we profit from. I&#x27;m waiting till their product gets a bit better but I&#x27;ll be a buyer once that occurs. It&#x27;s damn close for the comma three
nonrandomstring大约 3 年前
This one just got more and more interesting as it went, and toward the end gets into some full-on existential philosophy. A very good read. This chap Hotz sounds like someone who gets it. Give and you shall receive. Start by giving it all away and realising you&#x27;re already dead and alone, then build an &#x27;earned&#x27; world you understand, that can&#x27;t be taken from you. But it must be tempered with compassion and humanism, or one has a tendency to be reckless and not just fall after pride, but hurt others too.
marcan_42大约 3 年前
Reminder that geohot wasn&#x27;t the first person to jailbreak an iPhone; that&#x27;s an oft repeated myth. He was the first person to publicly <i>carrier unlock</i> an iPhone, which he did using information and methods he mostly learned from others.
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ecef9-8c0f-4374大约 3 年前
I have an idea for a new religion. Imagine living your live and dying. Then realizing the world is a simulation (duh). The world is a training place for AIs. You exist to learn to think like a human. Now the time is come. You will get tested. Will you do the task? Will you do it well? No? Well then you get deleted&#x2F;nirvana. But if you find satisfaction in the moment and in simple tasks, then you will get reborn .... as an AI supported fruit juicer, toaster or if you are really lucky as an AI for a self-driving car.
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gurumeditations大约 3 年前
This guy sounds like he’s gone off the deep end.
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HellDunkel大约 3 年前
One of the great promises in 2016 was that end to end machine learning would solve „self-driving“. It is pretty clear now that this approach failed and will not work for the foreseeable future. As smart as George Hotz may be, he did not deliver and probably never will.
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motohagiography大约 3 年前
I know that people who do this seriously for a living hate armchair speculations about trolley problems and other dumb and misleading narratives that in effect sabotage valuable research.<p>However, I&#x27;d wonder if progress on the beneficial use case has to come from solving first for malign one, where the only way to get to &quot;kill no humans,&quot; is to start with &quot;kill all humans.&quot; Sort of like throwing yourself at the ground, but missing.<p>Even to the point of where cars learn to set traps for humans, where we think it&#x27;s parked, and then it pounces and runs them down, misdirects them into thinking they&#x27;re turning one way, and then swerving to take them out. Maybe the infotainment system has access to social media data that implies someone will be in a place at a given time, and like Appointment in Samara, there is no avoiding your fate, determined at birth, of meeting your maker via being run down by an autonomous car. They could even co-ordinate, where one can signal to the other that a cyclist is coming, flash its lights and honk, while the other opens its door into the cyclists path. They could hunt in packs, where data about pedestrians they didn&#x27;t hit gets passed to oncoming vehicles who might still have the opportunity. The presence of a school in the area would enable cars to reduce human populations by both preventing them reaching maturity, but also imposing catastrophic costs on humans who had already invested in making new ones. They could linger around known bus routes at peak times and co-ordinate to select routes based on their lifecycle whether to sacrifice one of their own against many humans on a bus.<p>These are obviously horrific, but the counter-cases for them yield features and that pop out of serial 1:1 sensor array development, and into a general strategy for &quot;self driving,&quot; that is not a replication of human abilities at all, but an entirely new logic of transportation that optimizes for risk reduction, based on the contra strategies for the hunter&#x2F;killer use case.<p>I&#x27;d wonder if to make anything remotely human or resembling a living being at all, you need to equip it with the capabilities of a successful predator in its environment, and then have it choose to not exercise them for some higher order incentive.
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jokethrowaway大约 3 年前
Yo, my name is GeoHot and for those who don&#x27;t know... I&#x27;m getting sued by God<p>Hotz is definitely iconic and I agree a lot with him. Talking about business: I think the fastest way to human level artificial intelligence is through biology. If we synthesised a human brain (or maybe just partially developed a human embryo, if we care more about science than a human life) and tried to connect it to digital signals maybe we could train it and eventually come up with automatic ways of doing so.
elif大约 3 年前
The comma business model is built upon a car interface created by manufacturers for their own purposes.<p>Those manufacturers are working on their own autonomous driving programs in various stages.<p>None of those manufacturers want crash statistics for their vehicles being driven autonomously.<p>Comma is clearly the unwanted guest in the room... the only positive outcome for them is acquihire when one of the manufacturers realizes how hard FSD is. Their business model standing alone is built of kerosene and straw.
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mindentropy大约 3 年前
&gt; “I live by morals, I don’t live by laws,” Hotz told The New Yorker in 2012. “Laws are something made by assholes.”<p>Reminds me more of Hindu Dharma. I like his take.
going_ham大约 3 年前
&gt; “Modern Silicon Valleyism is a grotesque ideology formed by psychopaths. Fuck you, I’m not a fucking piece of data. I will not be optimized, integrated, or transformed.”<p>That is one hell of a powerful line! I have been looking into hacker culture and silicon valley of the past. What used to be great paradise of hack culture and innovation, now seems like a huge ponzi scheme of invest, make, sell and repeat. There are so many companies out there, selling things to another company. Is it really good for the society to be reformed around some vision of tech bros who never know what lies beyond the hills of the valley?
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moab大约 3 年前
&quot;During our conversation, I was continually struck by the degree to which Hotz and his company are anti-mimetic. Like many founders of tech startups—thanks to the influence of Peter Thiel – Hotz has a passing familiarity with René Girard’s theory of mimetic desire. The theory, now supported by a trove of empirical evidence, posits that our desires do not originate in us but are always learned from models.&quot;<p>Perhaps not so relevant, but here is a nice read about Girard: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;arcade.stanford.edu&#x2F;rofl&#x2F;deceit-desire-and-literature-professor-why-girardians-exist" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;arcade.stanford.edu&#x2F;rofl&#x2F;deceit-desire-and-literatur...</a>
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rank0大约 3 年前
I generally like this dude and his antics…but becoming dependent on opiates as an “experiment” is the stupidest shit I’ve ever read.<p>It sounds like he wanted some adversity to overcome and couldn’t find any so he manufactured his own. Hopefully George understands that premeditated physical opioid dependence is not the same kind of struggle which addicts face. The homeless dudes shooting smack under a bridge have terrible lives. George is a software genius with loads of money and opportunity at his disposal.
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ttttttttttttttp大约 3 年前
Hotz seems to be falling into the familiar pattern of those who gain fame at a younger age for doing something impressive to a wide audience - as they get ever older, they feel the need to recapture that feeling, and jump from trend to trend, trying to stay relevant.<p>He&#x27;s clearly an intelligent man, but he should try to understand that he no longer needs to prove himself, or outdo his previous famous achievements. It will be a crack to the ego, but a healthy one, in the long run.
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octoberfranklin大约 3 年前
&gt; Perhaps a week after our conversation [event that happened in November 2021]<p>The interviewer just kinda sat on this for four months before writing the article?
sbinthree大约 3 年前
Great article.
jackblemming大约 3 年前
Someone reverse engineered comma.ai’s architecture a few years back and it was a pretty basic CNN pipeline. Why are we pretending people like this and other tech bros like Elon Musk are glorified Tony Starks?
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CipherThrowaway大约 3 年前
Can we please stop lionizing the &quot;maverick genius.&quot; It should be clear to everyone at this point that the Nth brilliant asshole with an untamed superiority complex who hates institutions and fixates on sci-fi tail risks is not going to be making the world a better place.<p>We are facing unprecedented global challenges this century that will benefit from humble and cooperative thinking at institutional scales. Not more myopic nerds motivated by <i>ressentiment</i> and delivering disruption with zero consideration of social impact.<p>&gt;“To truly understand what I am. If you want to understand what a radio is,” he said, “build it from scratch. If you want to understand what a microprocessor is, build it from scratch. If you want to understand what a human is, build it.”<p>This sounds like a joke about the things men will do instead of just going to therapy. It&#x27;s a level of grandiosity that is indistinguishable from satire.
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vmception大约 3 年前
edit: alright alright
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