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3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

171 点作者 matthewmorgan大约 3 年前

19 条评论

mikaeluman大约 3 年前
This has come up many times by now. But the supposed transition to renewable energy in Germany was merely a substitution of natural gas for nuclear power.<p>What bothers me greatly is that Germany still has not come to turns with the fact that they need nuclear power. That is a long and costly investment to make and you need to start right away.<p>LNG can only get you so far and renewable sources just can&#x27;t provide the energy needed, as should be clear by now (although it was widely understood for the past 30 years at least).
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macspoofing大约 3 年前
If you double-down on renewables, then you double-down on natural gas. Germany decided to close down their nuclear and coal generation, so the only thing that is left is natural gas for base load (and to augment renewable intermittency problems).
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sendfoods大约 3 年前
Does anybody know why Germany isn&#x27;t really using their domestic gas fields? According to the german EPA equivalent[1] there&#x27;s enough for 10 years of usage.<p>While I agree with the need to shut off Nordstream I, I am not sure Germany can afford this right now due to historically low gas reserves [2].<p>I have to disagree with the tone of the statement &quot;We can afford the consequences&quot;. Who is &quot;we&quot;? The lower middle class of Germany, who already suffers some of the highest taxes in the world <i>and</i> the highest energy prices in the world? The government clearly does not care about energy prices: Gas prices are nearly 50% taxed, are they willing to lower it for lower income families? No.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.umweltbundesamt.de&#x2F;service&#x2F;uba-fragen&#x2F;wie-gross-sind-die-erdgas-vorkommen-in-deutschland" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.umweltbundesamt.de&#x2F;service&#x2F;uba-fragen&#x2F;wie-gross-...</a><p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.mdr.de&#x2F;nachrichten&#x2F;deutschland&#x2F;politik&#x2F;erdgas-russland-ukraine-gasspeicher-100.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.mdr.de&#x2F;nachrichten&#x2F;deutschland&#x2F;politik&#x2F;erdgas-ru...</a>
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jerome-jh大约 3 年前
Although I agree Europe should take the risk to stop importing Russian gaz, I disagree refugees cost GDP points. Refugees are usually young and educated and this is another reason for them to be so much welcome in ageing countries. A few years ago Germany alone accepted almost one million syrian refugees, with no consequence on GDP. Europe as a whole can easily integrate the complete population of Ukraine. This is not a desirable outcome for this war though.<p>[*] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Syrians_in_Germany" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Syrians_in_Germany</a>
krona大约 3 年前
I don&#x27;t know what the contract looks like; doesn&#x27;t Germany have a legal obligation to pay Russia even if it were to stop LNG imports?
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AtlasBarfed大约 3 年前
This war has laid bare ten years of poor strategic planning with alternate energy and PHEV vehicles that would have neutered not just Russia, but Venezuela, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and OPEC in general.<p>Oil supports totalitarian regimes, and degrades the integrity of democracies by supporting multinational petroleum companies that have a long and detailed list of dirty tricks to get what they want.
motoboi大约 3 年前
I wouldn’t doubt, given the nefarious consequences for Germany, that this site is Russian INFOSEC campaign.<p>Germany cannot function without Russian gas right now. Simple there isn’t enough BTU’s.<p>Why did Germany put itself into this strange Russian dependency is also very strange.<p>Perfectly fine and environmentally friendly nuclear power plants for dependency from Russian natural gas. Why?
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kkfx大约 3 年前
Politics aside I&#x27;m curious to hear <i>unreal environmentalist</i> (I consider myself a &quot;real&quot; one) how they imaging the world.<p>For instance &quot;gas pollute, stop ICEs vehicles!&quot; fun to hear, who can provide new e.v. to replace gazillions of cars in a snap and provide the needed infrastructure to recharge them... Again for gas: I live in a &quot;class A&quot; home, so I&#x27;m all electric but how can a classic home be heated without gas or oil or wood? 30+kW power from heat pumps? Oh, of course we can build new homes, who pay? How this can be done in dense cities made of multi-apartment buildings?<p>Long story short: in 50+ years we can probably rebuild actual society in a new one with different infrastructures etc, definitively not tomorrow. That&#x27;s the point.
dmitrygr大约 3 年前
Ok, so what is the solution you propose? Quit russian gaz cold turkey, today? Let people in Berlin freeze to death tonight? (Temperatures are 0 degrees C at night)
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readthenotes1大约 3 年前
Even a dolt could see how misaligned with national interests the German energy policy is.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cbsnews.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;why-were-un-diplomats-laughing-at-trump&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cbsnews.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;why-were-un-diplomats-laughing-...</a>
tuyguntn大约 3 年前
@dang can you please explain why I am getting flagged for sharing my opinions on the issue happening right now?<p>Can someone go through my opinions and prove me that I am a troll? My opinions are mine, based on what I have read and experienced in this life. I know my opinions are not popular, but it doesn&#x27;t make them invalid. This is happening again and again: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=30756420" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=30756420</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;imgur.com&#x2F;a&#x2F;DlieDOo" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;imgur.com&#x2F;a&#x2F;DlieDOo</a>
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hogrider大约 3 年前
They could just do without they really could. They&#x27;re just hypocrits that can&#x27;t lower industrial output and wear warm clothes.
Zpalmtree大约 3 年前
Yeah, I&#x27;m sure the regular Germans want their energy bills to go up massively while the media incites us into another war. Thanks but no thanks
ricardo81大约 3 年前
Maybe I&#x27;m naive but I can see why Western countries tried to get Russia on board the world capitalism gravy train.<p>Obviously the context has changed massively in the past month, maybe even since 2014.<p>In any event, less reliance on fossil fuels is a good thing, and at the moment, less reliance on Russian fossil fuels in the EU is probably a good thing.
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JamalKush大约 3 年前
Horrible horrible colour scheme, burned my eyes
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layer8大约 3 年前
They should use a font with fixed digit widths.<p>Also, the thread title needs updating. ;)
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rdiddly大约 3 年前
Hmm now where have I seen that color scheme before?
paganel大约 3 年前
Nice, means that some parts of the European economy are still not delusional about the whole sanctions thing.
renewiltord大约 3 年前
The environmentalists did this. They killed nuclear. They killed wind in Bavaria. This is the price of all that. Europe has destroyed her nature over the centuries, and now Europe won&#x27;t do her part. If Russia has Germany by the balls, it&#x27;s their own fault.
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