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Ask HN: Why do negative crypto articles dominate on HN?

63 点作者 laszlo-kiss大约 3 年前
I admit, I believe that Bitcoin will have an important (and positive) future in our lives. Yet every day I open HN and scan the articles I get the sense that most (not all) articles are anti crypto currency. The sum of these articles appears to me as &quot;propaganda&quot;. Does anyone else feel the same way?<p>It would be interesting to know why the status quo financial system is held in such a high regard? Especially in light of the continual debasement of the dollar since it was decoupled from gold.<p>I for one, take this perceived negative bias as a confirmation that Bitcoin is a genuine threat to the existing financial system. When Bill Gates (and other powerful people) bad mouth Bitcoin I smell a rat. Does anyone else think this way? Am I just a dumb ass? :)

22 条评论

cbdumas大约 3 年前
Because HN readers skew more technologically literate, people here are on average (slightly) more capable of seeing though the techno-babble hype than on other social media sites. It&#x27;s not that the financial status quo is held in high regard, rather that HN readers see crypto&#x27;s empty promises to fix existing issues for what they are: bullshit designed to lure in ever more dumb money.
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version_five大约 3 年前
Many of us were excited when bitcoin came out, about both the technology, and the concept of a currency that sovereigns can&#x27;t control. The problem is, blockchain &#x2F; cryptocurrency failed to deliver in any practical way, and as a concept was hijacked by scammers, so the only real hype now is from people trying to bypass securities laws so they can scam you.<p>Find a way I can actually electronically teleport money to pay for something without a trusted authority, without volatility and fees and scams, and I&#x27;ll be all over it. But most of us went up and down the hype cycle on bitcoin years ago, and are just watching it&#x27;s vestigial promise be used to promote a scam, so we&#x27;re negative about it.
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Barrera大约 3 年前
It&#x27;s hard to see Bitcoin&#x27;s value proposition when you live a life of financial privilege. Bitcoin&#x27;s value proposition is this: censorship-resistant money. If you don&#x27;t care about being censored, you won&#x27;t see the value proposition. If civil asset forfeiture seems like no big deal, then Bitcoin will seem dumb. If routing literally every payment you make through a surveillance apparatus seems fine then Bitcoin makes no sense. If weaponization of your local currency to fight those who disagree with the regime in power seems legit, Bitcoin is just a scam.<p>Here&#x27;s the problem: you give a government an inch and they&#x27;ll take a foot. Give them a foot and they&#x27;ll take a yard.<p>The financial weaponization and surveillance policies put in place by western &quot;democracies&quot; are never, ever going away. They will only be expanded. Today they knock on the door of the crackpot. Tomorrow it could be your door they&#x27;re knocking on. It&#x27;s easy to stay blind to this simple fact until it&#x27;s far too late to respond.
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notacoward大约 3 年前
To put it simply, it&#x27;s because a greater number of HN users upvote those articles than upvote pro-crypto articles. One can speculate about more precise reasons, or about the actual positive&#x2F;negative value of crypto, but those are all kind of beside the point.<p>&gt; The sum of these articles appears to me as &quot;propaganda&quot;.<p>Do you realize how much you sound like a conspiracy-theory propagandist yourself? Allow me to illustrate with a couple of examples.<p>&gt; why the status quo financial system is held in such a high regard<p>I don&#x27;t think I&#x27;ve seen anyone espouse such an opinion, and it&#x27;s not necessary to be &quot;down&quot; on crypto. Two things can both be bad. It&#x27;s kind of like the old saying: democracy is the worst system of government, except for the others.<p>&gt; take this perceived negative bias as a confirmation<p>&quot;Rejection as confirmation&quot; is absolutely <i>classic</i> conspiracy thinking. It&#x27;s non-falsifiable; the harder one tries, the firmer the conviction becomes. You might want to ask yourself which evidence would actually cause you to change your mind. Be honest with yourself. If the answer is &quot;none&quot; then congratulations, you&#x27;ve been drawn into a conspiracy theory.<p>&gt; When Bill Gates (and other powerful people) bad mouth Bitcoin I smell a rat.<p>Odd, in a community where most people lionize financial success without regard for any ethical dimension. How does his wealth or power make his opinion <i>less</i> valid, other than by implying that he&#x27;s part of a conspiracy?
jakelazaroff大约 3 年前
This is a false dichotomy:<p><i>&gt; It would be interesting to know why the status quo financial system is held in such a high regard?</i><p>Plenty of people see problems with the status quo financial system <i>and also with the crypto ecosystem that purports to replace it</i>.<p>It’s not that I’m leaping to defend the current system. It’s that you want to replace it with something I think is <i>worse</i>. That’s why I’m resisting the change.
apeace大约 3 年前
The reason is because the <i>real things that are happening</i> in the cryptocurrency space are overwhelmingly negative.<p>People are getting their wallets hacked, losing their savings by investing in pump-and-dump schemes, using &quot;custodial&quot; crypto wallets that defeat the whole purpose of crypto, raising &quot;ICOs&quot; that skirt securities laws, starting underground markets that sell heroin and guns, quitting their jobs to make a living in &quot;play-to-earn&quot; schemes that can&#x27;t possibly last. It goes on and on.<p>If you have an article about how crypto is positively affecting people&#x27;s lives (not just the lucky ones who made some good trades and profited), then please share it on HN!<p>I read somewhere that a large number of Ukranians are currently holding crypto as they flee the country, as they view it as a good way to transfer funds in the midst of a lot of uncertainty. If so, I view that as a positive (assuming many of them don&#x27;t end up losing their funds one way or another).<p>I wouldn&#x27;t be surprised if most in the HN community thought some form of &quot;blockchains are a really neat idea.&quot; It&#x27;s just that the technology is in its infancy, and so far it has attracted a lot of criminals, fraudsters, and speculators. Not much to write home about.
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gumby大约 3 年前
There are other comments mentioning technical and social drawbacks and limitations of today&#x27;s concepts of cryptocurrencies, so I&#x27;m going to respond to this one point:<p>&gt; It would be interesting to know why the status quo financial system is held in such a high regard? Especially in light of the continual debasement of the dollar since it was decoupled from gold.<p>Note: a few years ago I worked with a team developing an automated central bank intended to manage a cryptocurrency replacement for the monetary system of a sovereign state. You might note that no country has actually implemented this yet.<p>The status quo financial system is held in high regard because it works, and has contributed mightily to the prosperity of people at all levels. People mostly concentrate on its problems, which is good: those problems need work. But we have plenty of experience of the gold standard and its significantly worse problems. One of the points of today&#x27;s cryptocurrencies is that they should behave like gold.<p>Long before bitcoin (or even before Chaum&#x27;s work) smart people did &quot;going back to the gold standard&quot; analysis in the hope of justifying it. I&#x27;ve read papers on the costs and consequences of warehousing gold, for example. So people have really thought it through...and it sucks.<p>At a macro level we need simply look back at history. We have financial crashes from time to time, which is used as an argument for gold. But look at the period from the 1840s to WWI. They were wracked by both inflationary spikes (due to gold strikes in California, the Yukon, Victoria, etc) and deflationary depressions (when their economies outgrew the gold supply).<p>The asset base of a modern economy is much greater than the world&#x27;s gold supply and anyway grows much faster than that supply becomes accessible. If your money supply can&#x27;t grow in proportion to the asset base it represents, you can&#x27;t possibly monetize your assets, which impoverishes everyone, even the wealthy.<p>And to make things worse there&#x27;s an absolute amount of tokens like bitcoin. Though you can trade fractional coins, there&#x27;s a floor at which the cost of validating the transaction exceeds the denomination. So for it not to be a destructive deflationary medium you need...different currencies alongside it, which in the end just means...fiat currency.<p>And that&#x27;s simply a taste of the problems at the macro level.
Finnucane大约 3 年前
As someone who thinks that bitcoin etc are just a techy form of alchemy (the old dream of creating something of value from nothing), if not an outright scam (for anti-social losers to escape from &#x27;teh rulez&#x27;), I wouldn&#x27;t say that it&#x27;s not so much that I hold the existing order in high regard, but that the alleged &#x27;disruption&#x27; does not appear to be anything other than an old ruse in a new guise.
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rockbruno大约 3 年前
&gt;I believe that Bitcoin will have an important (and positive) future in our lives.<p>Can you elaborate how? From my point of view, the reason the general tech community despises crypto is precisely because of that; every now and then someone shows up saying that the tech is important and positive, yet none of them can come up with a single valid reason why.<p>For people who are outside of it, the answer to why this is the case is clear.
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uberman大约 3 年前
In my opinion:<p>You either believe that non-fungible metadata pointing to a fungible destination that currently represents a five year old kid&#x27;s drawing of a farting dinosaur is worth $100k USD or it is worth nothing.<p>There is a huge divide with some clearly seeing something splendid with the ability to generate massive wealth and liberate the masses from economic governmental control, while others clearly see something more like a pump and dump scam.
dolni大约 3 年前
There are two major issues with Bitcoin for me.<p>First, crypto is always broken eventually. We have seen the deprecation of crypto algorithms time and again. Why should we assume Bitcoin is immune to this phenomenon? It&#x27;s a high-value target and it could literally become valueless in an instant.<p>Second, the changing climate is one of the most pressing matters of our time. Bitcoin is absolutely not helping there.
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larrykubin大约 3 年前
From what I remember, Hacker News enjoyed crypto discussions in its very early days (early 2010&#x27;s) when it was just bitcoin and a small number of technologists discussing it.<p>I think I noticed a turning point when it became more mainstream and rebranded to &quot;web3&quot;. The nonstop hyping of NFT&#x27;s and &quot;web3 is the future&quot; and &quot;web3 will make web2 obsolete&quot; takes on Twitter has gotten a bit annoying. This is coming from someone who finds it interesting and has spent some time working in crypto.
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sebastien_bois大约 3 年前
&gt; <i>The sum of these [anti-crypto] articles appears to me as &quot;propaganda&quot;. Does anyone else feel the same way?</i><p>Funny, I would consider all the unending pro-crypto stories to be the propaganda (someone coined a term: &quot;pro-bitcoinism&quot;[1])<p>What I&#x27;ve noticed is that the vitriol is almost always instigated by the crypto crowd (<i>especially</i> the bitcoiners), that will lash out at anyone or about anything that doesn&#x27;t have total loyalty to their &quot;movement&quot;. Not exactly an inviting crowd, and certainly doesn&#x27;t reflect well on cryptocurrency as a whole.<p>&gt; <i>I for one, take this perceived negative bias as a confirmation that Bitcoin is a genuine threat to the existing financial system.</i><p>And the other side perceives that total loyalty&#x2F;belief as some sort of cult. Turns out both sides are right...*and* wrong - just not for the reasons they think.<p>[1]<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.urbandictionary.com&#x2F;define.php?term=pro-bitcoinism" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.urbandictionary.com&#x2F;define.php?term=pro-bitcoini...</a>
muttantt大约 3 年前
Because so many folks here missed out on crypto and speaking badly about it makes them feel better for having to continue to work for the next 30-40 years because they didn&#x27;t buy early.
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jdrc大约 3 年前
&gt; why the status quo financial system is held in such a high regard?<p>the community is extremely well paid in USD. there is every incentive to keep it valuable<p>in any case i doubt the cryptocoin world cares what hn thinks
Bancakes大约 3 年前
Because crypto hasn&#x27;t proven itself. I won&#x27;t fight your battles for you. Call me when I can buy coffee at my local diner with crypto.
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lamontcg大约 3 年前
&gt; It would be interesting to know why the status quo financial system is held in such a high regard?<p>This is a false dichotomy.<p>It is possible to both think that the existing financial system is fairly awful, while at the same time thinking that bitcoin&#x2F;crypto is useless and worse.
netsharc大约 3 年前
If I can guess, I&#x27;m guessing you&#x27;re operating backwards. You like crypto, you want it to &quot;win&quot;, (you&#x27;ve probably put money in it, and who puts money on things they&#x27;re not convinced in?), so when you see article and people against crypto, you see them as having hidden motives and are just spreading propaganda.<p>Meanwhile whether you&#x27;re conscious of it or not, here you are, having put your money on crypto, trying to preach to people that &quot;It&#x27;s the future!&quot;. Why? Of course you&#x27;re cheerleading it, because you want your investments to go up. And they way that can happen is when more people are converted and buy it. Maybe there are layers of justifications between &quot;My motivation is A, therefore B&quot;, but I think at the end of it, that&#x27;s it.<p>&gt; It would be interesting to know why the status quo financial system is held in such a high regard? Especially in light of the continual debasement of the dollar since it was decoupled from gold.<p>And here I think you&#x27;ve drunk the Kool-Aid. Where did you learn that this is bad? Probably from pro-crypto websites. Do you think they have a neutral view of it, or do you think they&#x27;d be selling you a version of why the past was bad, and a version of the way things should be, where the makers of these sites (people who are invested in crypto and want to profit) do profit? I&#x27;d wager what they&#x27;re trying to peddle is bullshit, but I&#x27;m not an expert in this area. Yeah, the current financial system is also a bit of of a Ponzi scheme of &quot;Trust me I&#x27;m good for it, you&#x27;ll get your money in the future&quot;, but I don&#x27;t think crypto will prevent that.<p>&gt; I for one, take this perceived negative bias as a confirmation that Bitcoin is a genuine threat to the existing financial system. When Bill Gates (and other powerful people) bad mouth Bitcoin I smell a rat.<p>And when Elon Musk and Jack Dorsey tout crypto I smell bullshit. Perhaps you treat these two as sincere heroes wanting the best for mankind, that&#x27;d be the same way I see Bill Gates, he probably offered his opinion to the best of his knowledge.<p>&gt; Does anyone else think this way? Am I just a dumb ass? :)<p>Well... it seems very easy to lead people astray, in a con, the mark does a lot of his fooling himself.
darthrupert大约 3 年前
This is conspiracy theory level stuff, but... I believe it&#x27;s a dump phase. Later, we&#x27;ll see a pump phase, where cryptopositive news dominate the pages for a while. It could all be organic in nature, but I wouldn&#x27;t be too surprised if at least part of it were manufactured.
fragmede大约 3 年前
The real question is: Where exactly do the real crypto discussions take place? Where everyone&#x27;s been through CryptoZombies and are well versed in Solidity.<p>(Ok fine, Discord, but which ones&#x2F;how to get an invite?)
Irongirl1大约 3 年前
No, you are not a dumb ass.<p>I wonder this all the time. I admit I&#x27;ve come to some pretty negative conclusions about &quot;tech&quot; and &quot;tech workers&quot; as a result. There are so many problems with access to traditional financial systems that are completely ignored by those who the system was built for...that if I were to try and list them all...everyone would just shrug and say &quot;oh, well, that&#x27;s just the way it is&quot; which basically means &quot;since I personally don&#x27;t suffer from those issues, I don&#x27;t give a damn that you do and it&#x27;s easier for me to just blow you off than to waste my precious time fixing something that causes you pain and suffering.&quot; Which, of course, is <i>exactly</i> the problem. There is no incentive for those who suffer no damage to assist those who do.<p>The scariest people are those who constantly try and smash crypto for things that haven&#x27;t been built yet. To me, it&#x27;s no different than saying &quot;Well the Wright Brothers haven&#x27;t yet built&#x2F;flown&#x2F;proven that flight is possible so I&#x27;ll just consider them frauds and idiots. Forever.&quot; Or Edison keeps insisting that this thing he&#x27;s working on called a &quot;light stick&quot; will be better than that nasty oil that Rockefeller is pitching <i>but since he can&#x27;t make it work yet, it&#x27;ll never exist. And he is a fraud too. Or Berners-Lee keeps talking about hooking all these systems together and Andreesen keeps talking about making easier to interact with it....you get my point.<p>VC Tomasz Tunguz of Redpoint Capital just wrote a blog post about the scarcity of engineers in the Web3 space: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;tomtunguz.com&#x2F;programming-languages-web3&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;tomtunguz.com&#x2F;programming-languages-web3&#x2F;</a>. I&#x27;ve included the link so you can read it for yourself. But to me the issue seems related to engineers not wanting to learn new languages or upset their heavily laden, golden apple-filled carts. If everything is going lovely right now and the company pays me top dollar (and does my laundry, provides chef cooked meals, bicycles, gyms etc etc) to basically sit and type all day, why would I want to learn a new language and possibly not hit the Unicorn in the side with my poisoned darts??? The new web will wait or if I talk it down enough it might just disappear all together.<p>But we-those of of who can&#x27;t get mortgages because we chose a different neighborhood than the banks would like or who are a different color&#x2F;gender&#x2F;whatever than the bank (ie: the system) would like have seen the new horizon and have seen what&#x27;s possible: a window to a different experience. One where we get to set the terms and offer them to a marketplace. Which, by the way, also hasn&#x27;t been built yet </i>and the marketplace gets to say &quot;yea&quot; or &quot;nea&quot; and where things can be negotiated to the benefit of both.*<p>So I&#x27;d say the rabbit isn&#x27;t going back into hat-Thank Goodness. But I also think that all the best things that haven&#x27;t been built yet won&#x27;t be built by members of this community.
yellowapple大约 3 年前
It&#x27;s because your average HN reader&#x2F;commenter&#x2F;poster skews toward upper class entrepreneurs (and people trying to become them) and has a vested interest (whether one realizes it or not) in the continued survival of the legacy financial system - even as that system continues to fail those outside the developed world (and quite a few of those inside it).<p>Cryptocurrency ain&#x27;t a silver bullet by any stretch, and there&#x27;s a lot of problems with it and excessive hype around it, but it <i>is</i> a great opportunity for the developing world to circumvent a system increasingly rigged against them in favor of one that treats them as equals.