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Who wins in Ukraine?

12 点作者 beachwood23大约 3 年前

7 条评论

omega3大约 3 年前
&gt; We pushed Russia to the breaking point, and now we get to see what plays out.<p>I wish this argument would just die - it&#x27;s all on Russia. No one has forced them to have imaginary &quot;safety guarantees&quot; or influence spheres. What people in the west doesn&#x27;t seem to understand is that nothing has changed in terms of Russian politics since the WW2 - it&#x27;s the continuation of the same politics of threats of aggression and playing the imaginary victim card and imperialistic politics.
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rmbyrro大约 3 年前
Wow, amazing how the guy interviewed in the video was 100% accurate in his analysis and predictions.
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federoccco大约 3 年前
As a person who was there in Ukraine in 2004, and in 2013-14, as a somewhat neutral observer of Orange Revolution and Euromaidan, the first paragraph already throws you an Oliver Stone -level propaganda jab. Everyone in Ukraine was well aware what political party was supported by the West or by Russia. To say that pro-western and anti-Russia attitude in Ukraine was fabricated by the West is a bit of a stretch, to say the least.<p>This article plays the favorite game of Russian apologists — engage in bad faith with any pro-Ukrainian argument, and in good faith with any Russian one.<p>It fails to account for Russian troops in Crimea (when discussing 2014 referendum), it fails to account for Russian influence in Ukrainian politics (billions of funding) and of course there is no agency of Ukrainian people, only NATO and Russia.<p>And of course “US invited an invasion [of Ukraine]”, sure, lets find a more apologetic way of saying “Putin invaded Ukraine”.
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trasz大约 3 年前
But too much of Russian propaganda for my taste.
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pasabagi大约 3 年前
There are some issues with this article. First, the account of the ukranian revolution is neither very accurate nor balanced: generally speaking, shadowy US interference in far-away states (&#x27;color revolutions&#x27;, etc) is more complicated, and a far more marginal factor than people like Putin would have you believe.<p>It also continues to follow the Russian line in the section where it discusses the build-up to the conflict. I think this idea of &#x27;NATO expansion pushing into the Russian sphere&#x27; is also wrongheaded: countries get a sphere of influence when they are powerful enough to exert control over their neighbors by simple size disparity, primarily economic, but also military, to such an extent that their neighbors are simply always by default in a weaker position when they negotiate. The USSR had the economic, cultural, and military power to maintain this. The Russians don&#x27;t. That Putin does not realize this is <i>his</i> failing, not NATO&#x27;s.<p>The economic section is also profoundly mistaken. You talk about recessions and inflation as if the Russian economy and the US economy are comparable. They are not: the Russian economy is marginally larger than that of Spain. It is smaller than California or Texas. Any economic confrontation between the West and Russia is modulated by the fact the Russian economy is simply so much smaller: the West is basically a collection of the world&#x27;s largest economic blocs, minus China and India. An economic fight between the EU and Russia would be a ridiculous mismatch. An economic fight between Russia and <i>the entire West</i> is so unbalanced that it may as well be a trade war between Kentucky and the rest of the US: there is simply no way that Russia can inflict a proportionate amount of economic damage to the west, and the only limit to how much damage the west can inflict on Russia is how willing they are to suffer even a tiny bit in return.
Mikeb85大约 3 年前
The article starts with the revolution&#x2F;coup in 2014 but completely ignores the nearly 8 years in between. Yes western nations encouraged&#x2F;sponsored Maidan, yes Poroshenko was a stooge.<p>But something else happened. Poroshenko ended up being less of a stooge as time went on and Zelenskiy is anything but. When Zelenskiy was elected some thought he was too pro-Russia, as a Jew he certainly didn&#x27;t identify with groups like Azov or Right Sector, his first language is Russian, etc... A lot of commentators and even Putin seem to focus on 2014 and not more recent happenings in Ukraine.<p>Who wins? No one. Ukrainians are suffering yet another genocide because Russia is being spiteful that they can&#x27;t conquer Ukraine (due to massive corruption killing their military capabilities). Of course it&#x27;s not the first time in history (basically all Ukrainian history is powers invading back and forth) so hopefully a stronger Ukraine comes out of this.
type0大约 3 年前
&gt; Who wins in Ukraine?<p>China, since they will be buying Russian resources for cheap<p>good question btw, but terrible and misguided article
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