Terrible things I'd do with your money

169 点作者 timdaub大约 3 年前

37 条评论

More than once I have said that some startups would do a lot better if they used half the money they got from their last round, bought a few grams of mushrooms for everyone, and then set the rest on fire on a beach somewhere, but for a very specific reason. There are legit complaints about VC's as a whole, but being risk averse is not one of them, and one from someone heroically accepting a regular paycheque and a snack fridge from one of their companies every two weeks, calling them out on risk aversion does seem a bit rich.The reason is too much cash takes the focus off product and turns it inward and creates a zero sum competition internally among managers to loot the excess money instead of focusing on growth from real revenue. Economically, at least the fire would be deflationary. Cash is literally fuel, and unless you can put it into something that grows, it's a volatile nuissance whose fumes impair judgment. If you want to destroy a product and a company, get them indexed on unlocking a covenant or raising another round where the execs get bonused out of it.Cash is what you have when you don't have product market fit and (I think) it creates a culture that repels customer desire. Why make anything someone wants when you have enough runway to tinker with what you want for yourself, maybe some follie that you can speak at conferences about, or the best devops and ci/cd pipeline to nowhere?I'm harsh about this because investors buy a ticket for a growth ride, and the best ones are diversified enough that they really do just buy the ticket and take the ride. But watching engineers iterate on refining the exeuction of solved problems, managers focus on "getting resources," and sales acting like the abused secret side partner to some flagship account they're fronting to attract investor/acquirer interest - are all just spinning wheels, imo.There are lots of legit complaints about VCs, particularly around financial engineering, and some negative culture issues from the teams they can parachute in, but even as an admitted serial IC technologist, the article embarasses me.

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dleslie大约 3 年前

There's no pay off to this article. The thesis and justification for the position are there, but the author leaves you hanging. Just what are those terrible things?Surely not:> It's there where I'd waste your hard-earned dollars on days of "unnecessary" and tangential work.> It's where I'd rent servers to compute seemingly useless shit - where I'd blow tons of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere just to gather more, to you, irrelevant information.There are very few individuals that I would trust to create something of value in an unstructured environment. At the very least, for most people I would want to hear about their approach to foster creative thought, turn that into actionable designs, experiment and discard and iterate.

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gumby大约 3 年前

> "VCs are sheep. They don't take risks."They have jobs and customers just like anyone else, even though many of them don't like to frame things that way. Every fund's prospectus talks about the GPs' philosophy, thesis and focus; every LP talks about their appetite for risk.The more significant difference I have observed, especially over the last 25 years, is that west coast investors are more afraid of missing out on upside, while investors elsewhere (US east coast, Europe, much of SE Asia except some chinese funds) are more worried about the downside. This makes the west coast more dynamic (more eagerness for a deal, more willingness to get into a deal with less onerous terms or lower percentage) than elsewhere. Also I've found east coast investors far more transactional. These are gross generalizations (I can easily point to exceptions to my own statement) but are generally true in my experience.Edit: It's missing out on upside that looks like "sheep" reaction. Someone may have a good idea for a product and identify an underserved market. You may like that sector but perhaps you don't like the team, or you can't get into the deal but you can get into a deal with someone else who has a different way to address the sector. That isn't necessarily a "fashion" issue (though sadly it sometimes is). Look at it in retrospect: there weren't integrated circuit startups in 1950 but there were a a few in the 50s and very many in the 70s. Would anyone today consider that "sheep" behavior?BTW I have no desire to defend the VC industry, but these are what I see.

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woah大约 3 年前

> I dream of the freedom to work on what I think is right - for how long I think is good.> I dream of not owing responsibility to my employers or financiers. The utopia of creative freedom, where no budget limitations, no sense of scarcity, or fear of failure exists.> I dream of a place where financiers understand my desire to take risks, a place where not only engineers have empathy towards the business but vice versa.> It's there where I'd waste your hard-earned dollars on days of "unnecessary" and tangential work.> It's where I'd rent servers to compute seemingly useless shit - where I'd blow tons of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere just to gather more, to you, irrelevant information.> If I had all the creative freedom in the world, I'd do "terrible" things with the money you invested.This guy should get into crypto

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johnqian大约 3 年前

Another trite complaint about startups not being cool enough these days. There are plenty of interesting and well funded startups if you earnestly look for them. As for the majority that aren’t interesting to you, well, they don’t owe you entertainment.The Utopia you describe seems to be “VCs give me unlimited money but I’m not expected to provide them any returns or listen to their suggestions, ever”. I don’t know what to say to that. It sounds like what you really want is to be rich, so you can finance your own experiments.Like others have said, this blog post would be much more interesting if you described what experiments you'd run if you had money. I think about that myself very often.

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krisoft大约 3 年前

I find it very curious that the article doesn’t mention self driving vehicles. To me that is an example for a daring risk undertaken mostly by VCs.The upside is huge. If we can make a robotic system which can safely pilot a vehicle on our existing roads, and make it commercialy viable that will reshape how transportation is done, how cities are built, and how people live.Is it risky? Oh yeah. Everyone knows that computers are full of faults, sensors are crappy, hardware breaks all the time and every software is a pile of bugs. These are given, and unlikely to just change on their own. Can we, despite all the above engineer a system which provides superhuman level of driving safety, yet it costs less than a driver on the local minimal wage? This is the premise of a self-driving car.Follow on question: is it possible to get there from here without antagonising the public with accidents? If a restaurant gives food poisoning to folks on the other side of town that won’t affect your restaurant’s business. Any self driving accident happening anywhere on the earth have the potential to ratchet up the scrutiny on every other companies. ( Think of something Hindenburg disaster equivalent.)I believe the answer is yes we can, it takes carefull engineering and a lot of work but it can be done without needing to invent general artificial inteligence. VCs seems to agree with me because they are positively pumping money into companies in this field. What is that if not risk taking?

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egypturnash大约 3 年前

It's where I'd rent servers to compute seemingly useless shit - where I'd blow tons of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere just to gather more, to you, irrelevant information.Wrap this up in some waffle about cryptocurrency and you’ll have people falling over themselves to give you money.

crawfordcomeaux大约 3 年前

This is clearly something written many people will have difficulty connecting with.I'm guessing it's easier for me because I've yet to see a startup out to prove the existence of human needs for thriving and committing to designing a business and culture with that level of awareness, or with the goal of creating an ecosystem capable of meeting all those needs.And if startups and their VCs are all chasing something else besides the needs to thrive, then aren't they all sheep going after not-needs?Where's the startup that's like "Human needs? Establishing what those are was the first thing we did when we had this idea because product-market fit is meaningless if we're literally developing a system that denies the existence of needs of the people working here by staying ignorant of them. That's organizationally and societally suicidal."

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JumpCrisscross大约 3 年前

VCs aren't the risk capital anymore. They're riskier than e.g. the S&P 500. But I'd bet the average distressed-debt hedge fund has more variance than the top tier VC funds.The venture (versus scaling) risk is taken by angels and seed investors. A majority of their bets totally fail. Not a down round or bad IPO or acquihire. Totally bust. Zero dollars back.We have multiple bets in space colonization, genomics, fusion and direct neural interfacing in play in America. I'd be cautious before calling the entire space risk averse. If all you're hearing about is crypto, FAANG and grocery delivery, you may want to broaden your professional circle.

jmmcd大约 3 年前

I googled "notorious lying woman posing as female Steve Jobs" and - credit where it's due - it seems to have given the right result.

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roopawl大约 3 年前

If this article were right, Google X would have transformed our daily lives in so many ways by now

JJMcJ大约 3 年前

> Risk taking in the workplaceYou mean like this bold approach to development?Programmer: "Please, boss, let me write this one in Rust."Manager: "OK, but if you are even one day late, you job will be on the line."Programmer: "Never mind, I'll use Java." Knowing that if three months late using Java, nobody will care.

h2odragon大约 3 年前

> dream of not owing responsibility to my employers or financiers. The utopia of creative freedom, where no budget limitations, no sense of scarcity, or fear of failure exists.When you have no budget, you have no budget limitations.Alternately stated: Be your only investor.Or, as has been said before me: "Do as thou will"

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SkyMarshal大约 3 年前

This blog post started out good, but fizzled at the end. I was expecting to hear actual examples of the terrible things he’d do with our money, but alas no specifics.

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21723大约 3 年前

Virtually no one actually likes risk (pathological gamblers are an exception, but they are understandably rare in the white-collar world). By "risk" I don't mean variance (or, equivalently, standard deviation) and I don't mean small bets with limited consequences. I'm talking about real risks that threaten one's career, reputation, and livelihood. No one fucking wants those; most people in business would end a human life (though few would admit it) to remove one from their existence.So, here's why "risk" is so weird and problematic. VCs will take numerical risks (standard deviation) because it is their job, just as some traders will gamble $10M on a 51/49 trade and not feel terribly bad if it goes against them. Almost no one is willing to take a real life-altering risk... and, to be honest, I don't blame them. This is especially true of employees, who are incentivized to be as risk averse as possible: if things go bad, they get fired; if things go well, their bosses profit.It would be better if we could just admit this and accept it and basically agree that no one should be expected, as a matter of daily living, to put their well-being at risk. Income is a utility; you don't want it turned off. Furthermore, when people are in precarious circumstances, society ought to do what it can to fix that.Thing is, the rich profit by our culture's lionization of "risk takers", while ignoring the fact that most of the people who hit it big took no real risks to get there. Sure, they could have lost $10,000 of their millionaire daddy's money, or had to call "weird Uncle John" to ask for a VP-level position in a consulting firm, but they weren't taking the real risks that most of us have to take in daily life and get a lot less for. This nonsense prevents us from agreeing that, most often, true risk is a pretty bad thing that we have good reasons not to want in our lives.

cortesoft大约 3 年前

Isn’t this what separates work from play?Work is what you do in order to gain the resources necessary to play. Work is about using your energy/time to produce something that is more valuable to someone else than the value of the energy/time was to you. Play is about using yiur energy/time for what you want.The person who grew the food that you eat also would love to do things that are more fun than farming, why did you make them farm to get your money instead of paying them to create art? If you aren’t willing to pay the farmer to do whatever they want, why would you expect someone else to pay you to do whatever you want?If you want someone else to give you stuff/money that you want, you have to give them something they want in return.

agentultra大约 3 年前

I'd be happy building a personal computing system that wasn't centred around a glowing screen and keyboard. One where the "computer" is practically invisible and hidden from view. Think decentraland, screenl.es, etc. e-Ink tablets, chalk boards, voice, gesture... any humane interface that works for you would be suitable rather than distinctly designed experiences sold to you.It came from a dream of wanting to be able to do my job, software development, with theorem provers and code synthesizers using interactive assistants and hand-writing recognition on e-Ink devices. It'd be nice to have a space that was truly intuitive in the human-scale sense: a device that isn't a device; that doesn't slowly ruin my body as I adjust myself to it, etc. A device that wasn't co-opted to keep me engaged and spending, spending, spending.It'd also be nice if I could build these things out of commodity parts with commodity interfaces so that we can up-cycle and maintain these computers well into the future without dumping them every few years for the new shiny.... it's a distinctly uncapitalist computer which is probably why I'll never be able to build it unless I win the capitalist lottery.But hey, one can dream. f-u money is what I look forward to.

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istinetz大约 3 年前

And what are the dazzlingly original ideas that the world does not let you work on?

jrm4大约 3 年前

At the risk of oversimplifying, isn't this all just fundamentally a "skin-in-the-game" problem?Which is to say, external investment perhaps makes sense when there's necessarily going to deep sunk costs (which correspond to capital like chunks of land, huge amounts of labor, piles of raw materials) etc.But in the internet age, nah -- which is, your big money companies frequently don't really NEED all this money. So what this really is is just a weird form of risk-play(could be either "gambling" or "insurance" depending on how you look at it) for the rich -- which creates seriously bad incentives; return at all costs?

mywittyname大约 3 年前

> it also shows the level of risk aversion they exhibit.I feel like it's very risky to do what everyone else is doing in a winner-take-all market.It seems like part of the problem is that there's too much VC money floating around for the number of opportunities in the market. I'm sure most investors would love an original pitch, but they just aren't getting any. And how can you claim to be a VC if you're passing on every venture looking for your capital? Throwing $1MM at Twitter for Dogs is probably just a cost of doing business, it keeps you in the loop and adds some prestige.

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Havoc大约 3 年前

Little bit odd simultaneously lamenting the dearth of new ideas and complaining that people are doing the same thing over & over.If it was that easy to come up with unique new viable ideas VCs would be investing in that. But its hard. Has little to do with risk tolerance.

disintegore大约 3 年前

I can think of three scenarios in which "risk taking" occurs :First wherever wealth is accumulated in such excremental proportions that risk itself is no longer (as much of) a factor (eg FAANG-tier companies, ultrarich investors)Second wherever the need for/value of solutions is judged too high for their development to be contingent on the existence of a viable business model (eg public sector, academia)Third wherever normally risk-averse people misjudge the risksIt's hard to think of anything else in this mode of production. Innovation is stymied by the threat of precarity, which looms over the vast majority of people. The others must operate either on prudence and sheer volume, or "luck"

breaker-kind大约 3 年前

I'm not sure I see the virtue in ending an article with a declaration of wanting to commit untold damage to the environment for the sake of personal scientific experimentation

mc4ndr3大约 3 年前

Where I've worked, pinning the major version of dependencies, where no version information had been pinned, was considered "too risky".

bduerst大约 3 年前

VCs are more like lemmings.They're beholden to funders who, while wanting to see ROI, also want to make sure they're not missing the next big thing.This FOMO competition means VCs are more likely to jump of a cliff once that first VC makes the leap, because in the off ~1% chance it's a big thing, the VC can't afford to miss it.

Mikeb85大约 3 年前

> "VCs are sheep."Of course. Because the whole point is to cash out when other (later) sheep pile in...> VCs don't take (enough) risks. And neither do startup founders.Because investors in the coming rounds are risk-averse and want something they can understand. The VCs just want to cash out.> The Utopia of Creative FreedomLol. Unfortunately it won't last long.

e-dant大约 3 年前

My whole heart agrees.I’ve often chalked this up to founders following the money. If everything is secondary to that — if it’s not for the love of software — you become bedfellows with technical debt and flashy bloatware.But you have something to write your investors about.Being antithetical to bloat, I see real innovation in FOSS.

nraynaud大约 3 年前

I have felt terribly alone at some "disruptive" startups. What's weird is that at least in a few occasions I proposed things that became a trend later (like using AWS EC2 for computation immediately when it was created, today "cloud" is a buzzword).

fhrow4484大约 3 年前

Is there some humor attempt lost in translation here?The first part seems to accurately describe the sad state of affairs regarding European VCs that are too risk averse, and, in this particular example of deliveries-by-bike, unoriginal.But the last part about the Utopia seems like 100% sarcasm?

Juliate大约 3 年前

It reads like double-sarcasm and is hard to understand (much like double-negative).

throwaway98797大约 3 年前

risk is on a sliding scaledon’t lament what the world is, but what you want the world to be

MrYellowP大约 3 年前

If I had a million euros, I'd buy several apartments in my area ...... and I'd buy long lasting food and store it in said apartments.It will be easy having security guarding it, at least for me personally,and when the time comes, which it will, I'll start making sure people around me have food and water.

leodriesch大约 3 年前

Who is meant to be the “female Steve Jobs” he is talking about?

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charles_f大约 3 年前

It's easy to claim people don't take enough risks when it's not your money. VCs are not gambling agencies, nor "foster" innovation, they're here to maximize investment.

javajosh大约 3 年前

"A Room of One's Own" (2022 edition)

ljhsiung大约 3 年前

I want to focus on this bit.> [I] would like to see is increased risk-taking in the workplace [...] I want to blow up the scope [1], but they won't allow meWhile I generally agree with the sentiment, let me offer a devil's advocate position to counter the whole "woe is me, I am but a 10x engineer suffocated by the evil VCs and PMs of the world who keep asking for dumb jira updates. If they stopped asking for updates, I'd give it to them in 5 years" narrative.There are similar criticisms in academia-- "The bean-counting administrators need some dumb metrics (num papers, num citations) for tenureship". While these are valid criticisms, the alternative is not one I'd prefer.Consider someone who does make grandiose claims, but pushed back against those who ask for "updates" or "metrics". Elizabeth Holmes is cited as one such person with "[going] all-in; mega bold and despite the odds stacked against them". But this example actually is a warning that goes against the point of the article, I feel. The "evil VCs" full-heartedly trusted her. Are you telling me that if the VCs just took more risk, she would have succeeded? But instead, they basically margin called her and screwed her over because they were too risk-intolerant?W.r.t Holmes, I actually place a small amount of fault on her. It's good to dream big. I place more fault on the VCs for not being "bean-countery" enough, because anybody with proper auditing would be able to see the issues there, instead of blindly trusting "oh this $100mil is for R&D, just trust me. You need to take risks for this world changing blood testing methodology."The takeaway is-- there's a reason scope might be restricted. In academia, there's a notion of a "publon" [2], the smallest "quantum" of knowledge that can be published (ha! I love that name). The idea is, no matter how large a project might be, it is segmentable, and if it is not segmentable, it's not a good project. Furthermore, publishing is THE mechanism of which scientists get feedback, and feedback is critical to our iteration process.(Again, as I mentioned, there are tons of problems with the "publish or perish" culture, which I could also go on forever about, but preferable IMO to the alternative of publishing a magnus opus every 10 years).We can generalize that concept to most things. Feedback and metrics are critical inputs to iteration. You can certainly criticize these metrics, but you can't JUST say "take more risk" without providing alternative data to update a VC's investing strategy. You want them to accept your giant ass scope? Give them better data. Help them help you.For another example-- Consider a project that's been going on for almost 20 years. Mill Computing [3]. They have established some pretty massive scope, and it's a goal I support. But do we (the public) have much insight as to what they're doing, precisely? Not really. They most definitely have their reasons, I'm sure, but I, as an outsider, know very little about how they are achieving their goal. So then why would I invest in them?[1]: <a href="https://timdaub.github.io/2021/06/18/when-scope-blows-up/" rel="nofollow">https://timdaub.github.io/2021/06/18/when-scope-blows-up/</a>[2]: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Least_publishable_unit" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Least_publishable_unit</a>[3]: <a href="https://millcomputing.com/" rel="nofollow">https://millcomputing.com/</a>

Scotrix大约 3 年前

Amen!