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When Greenswashing Backfires – Thank You North Face

87 点作者 yessirwhatever大约 3 年前

21 条评论

Melatonic大约 3 年前
As someone who considers themselves a huge environmentalist this video is unfortunately sort of bullshit.<p>1. He claims that the entire &quot;outdoor&quot; movement was created by Oil and Gas which I think we know is total BS. Humans have been exploring the outdoors long before oil and gas - hunting - exploring - etc.<p>2. While TNF does definitely produce a ton of crap (and is really not my favourite brand in general) there is just currently no better substitute performance wise for petroleum based products in many areas. You can make a lot out of natural materials but a nice and lightweight waterproof jacket is not really one of them.<p>3. The original founder of the TNF (now deceased) bought tons and tons of land throughout Chile for years that people thought was for malicious ends. It turned out to be, however, that they were instead intending to donate the land to create even more natural parks (which Chile already has a ton of). Not a small amount of land here - we are talking quite a bit.<p>The &quot;outdoor industry&quot; in general has pretty much all of the problems he lists and tons of companies don&#x27;t do shit in reality to help the environment. Would I prefer for all of these companies to stop making so much VOLUME of product and instead focus on quality and longevity and for consumers to focus more on buying used and second hand products? Of course. But this doesn&#x27;t seem intended to really focus on that at all and is just a hit piece specifically on TNF. Who is paying for this advertisement and what is their motivation?<p>Why not focus instead on the problems of the outdoor industry in general?
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owlninja大约 3 年前
I was a bit confused, this article provided some more details<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.outsidebusinessjournal.com&#x2F;issues&#x2F;what-happens-when-an-oil-company-publicly-accuses-the-north-face-of-hypocrisy&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.outsidebusinessjournal.com&#x2F;issues&#x2F;what-happens-w...</a><p>From July 2021 FYI
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lkrubner大约 3 年前
Two things:<p>My parents were given, as a gift, a wool blanket in 1963, and it was on our beds when we were children, and I have it on my bed now. It’s durability is like something out of a science-fiction story, an incredible substance that can take decades of use without showing signs of wear. It is not frayed or ugly; it is still in good shape. Im almost baffled how it endured. Good wool is amazing.<p>In 1989 my mom bought me my first real backpack, a NorthFace. Over the next 32 years, I travelled all over with it. I hiked the Appalachian Trail with it. I hiked mountains in Colorado with it. I took it on bike trips. I took it all over Europe. The quality was amazing. Finally, the zippers gave out. I gave up on it last year.<p>I bought another NorthFace backpack. The quality is terrible. After 1 year it is showing signs of wear. Everything about it seems cheap and badly done. I am very disappointed to see the shift in quality in NorthFace over those 32 years.
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bsmith89大约 3 年前
I think my gripe with the argument in this video (which is, nonetheless, interesting from an offensive marketing perspective) is that equating making clothes out of petroleum products with &quot;being a friend of the oil and gas industry&quot; is disingenuous. For the most part, the environmentally disastrous emissions come from _burning_ fossil fuels; I&#x27;m guessing cheap plastics are just a side-effect of a massive energy market, and not a major driver of the industry.
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mikkergp大约 3 年前
I was never a fan of their clothing, but I was really turned off when they sued a teenager for creating a parody brand &quot;The South Butt&quot;.
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julienchastang大约 3 年前
His arguments are straw man in nature. I think we all agree that fossil fuels have led to orders of magnitude increases in standard of living, at least for most humans. That is not really in dispute. But it is now time to move on to new sources of energy that are not so destructive for the planet and biodiversity; renewables, nuclear, and ultimately fusion. We need to look forward, not back.
1970-01-01大约 3 年前
A private jet terminal is unnecessary for a clothing business. North Face, they got you on that.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bizjournals.com&#x2F;denver&#x2F;news&#x2F;2019&#x2F;11&#x2F;26&#x2F;vf-corp-centennial-airport-hangar.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bizjournals.com&#x2F;denver&#x2F;news&#x2F;2019&#x2F;11&#x2F;26&#x2F;vf-corp-c...</a>
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alex_young大约 3 年前
Isn&#x27;t calling this &quot;greenwashing&quot; quite a bit of editorialization? This title is more flame-bait than the content it links to and that&#x27;s saying something.
rsync大约 3 年前
God it just kills me to hear otherwise educated, well spoken people pronounce &quot;et cetera&quot; with a &#x27;K&#x27;.
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jerlam大约 3 年前
Is there any evidence that North Face&#x27;s actions &quot;backfired&quot; other than the creation of this video and the loss of a microscopic corporate customer?<p>This also seems similar to the actions of one of North Face&#x27;s customers, Patagonia, when they stopped doing co-branding with some VC firms: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=19558512" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=19558512</a> (2019).
gamblor956大约 3 年前
North Face uses rayon, which is derived from bamboo, not oil and gas...<p>But it&#x27;s not like the oil and gas industry hasn&#x27;t been caught lying a billion times before.<p>(Note that their less premium offerings available at Target and Walmart might use fibers derived from oil and gas. Their premium stuff does not.)
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wiz21c大约 3 年前
I&#x27;ve enjoyed watching for 3.5 minutes a man that will soon transform himself into a dinosaur...
boringg大约 3 年前
This guy misses the point - classic pro Oil &amp; Gas rant on how they are the boogie man.<p>The point is that we don&#x27;t want to be beholden to oil and gas going forward. Look at all the campaigns to put out misinformation about oil and gas by the Oil Majors (since the 1980s). Yes Oil and Gas is part of the economy and all of its various products, but let&#x27;s not make it the lynchpin and let&#x27;s decarbonize our energy systems.<p>Every time these guys (oil executives or proxies) open their mouths you really see how much they don&#x27;t understand the landscape outside of oil and gas industry.<p>Also remember this a polished message, I&#x27;d be curious to see their backroom conversations...
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chad_strategic大约 3 年前
Just think all the energy and time we wasted with this article that is confusing and that Steve Jobs &#x2F; Anderson Cooper want be.
seydor大约 3 年前
my north faces have lasted more than decade and are easier to clean.<p>other than that i do not understand anything from this video
kenbolton大约 3 年前
Wool ftw!<p>I consider my primary work to be in outdoor leadership. I&#x27;ve built my wardrobe around sustainable wool.<p>Gore is working toward more sustainable waterproof&#x2F;breathable materials, and the manufacturer I buy GoreTex from, Kokatat, is committed to healthy watersheds because that is where their customers play.<p>When your playground is the rivers and oceans, you play downstream from nearly everyone.
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baisq大约 3 年前
I find amusing to use &quot;Oil &amp; Gas&quot; as if it was some kind of demonic entity.
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photochemsyn大约 3 年前
North Face is a classic example of neoliberalism run amok. They used to manufacture their products in a Berkeley factory, but that was shut down in 1993 as neoliberal trade deals opened up access to low-wage factories around the world. The current list of manufacturing sites is fairly broad, but Vietnam and Bangladesh appear to be among the main ones. Notably, when you hear about the crisis of homelessness around the SF Bay Area, keep in mind that in the 1980s (when there were not nearly as many homeless, like 90% less by population ratio), there were a lot more garment and electronics manufacturing jobs in the region.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;themenhero.com&#x2F;where-is-the-north-face-made&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;themenhero.com&#x2F;where-is-the-north-face-made&#x2F;</a><p>Since sales are probably not that high in Vietnam&#x2F;Bangaladesh etc., this requires a robust global shipping system to get product from factory to consumer (probably mostly in North America, Europe, Japan, but sales location isn&#x27;t reported much). It&#x27;s a safe bet that cost-of-shipping increases are more than made up for by cost-of-manufacturing decreases due to outsourcing.<p>As far as the raw materials going into nylon&#x2F;polyester, yes those are petrochemicals but could be replaced by aerochemicals, i.e. direct capture of CO2 and conversion to butadiene, ethylene, etc. for feeding into synthetic fabric production. Such tech is currently expensive, but if all the oil &amp; gas &amp; coal on the planet suddenly vanished, we could still make nylon.<p>On the whole oil &amp; gas issue, this article&#x2F;podcast lays it out nicely. Apparently it&#x27;s all about having consistent brand image management:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;supplychainnow.com&#x2F;north-face-dilemma-670&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;supplychainnow.com&#x2F;north-face-dilemma-670&#x2F;</a>
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chomp大约 3 年前
Update headline to include (2021)<p>Also, a couple things:<p>1.) North Face really really cares about image and marketing. In my opinion, there&#x27;s nothing special to their product- it&#x27;s all image. So, blocking O&amp;G companies from branding their gear is somewhat understandable.<p>2.) They do use some eco-friendly material, and (supposedly, maybe) will have more responsibly sourced material coming by 2025 (not sure if they committed to this before, or after this debacle).<p>3.) It&#x27;s funny to me that his best defense of oil and gas is &quot;you live in an oil and gas society, so, gotcha!&quot;
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pfortuny大约 3 年前
Totally spot on. When oil is evil, many products become evil which very few people realize.
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nopeNopeNooope大约 3 年前
This is bullshit, the amount of oil and gas used for garments and plastics is a pittance compared to what we burn to move those products around.<p>Nobody is saying oil and gas is evil.<p>What is evil is profiting and pretending we don&#x27;t need to change how we fuel our economy.<p>What we build our durable goods out of isn&#x27;t in question.
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