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Acute inflammatory response via neutrophil protects against chronic pain

157 点作者 jqgatsby大约 3 年前

18 条评论

tastysandwich大约 3 年前
Mark Rippetoe swears by a remedy he developed for elbow tendonitis, based on pin firing. Pin firing is an old treatment for certain injuries to a horse&#x27;s leg, whereby inflammation is intentionally exacerbated using a hot poker. The idea being that this increased inflammatory response causes the original injury to heal.<p>His remedy for elbow tendonitis basically involves a few sessions of doing chin ups until your elbow pain is unbearable. And then keep going. Many low-rep sets over and over. The idea is that this will increase inflammation, causing your body to heal the original injury along with the inflammation.<p>He claims this healed his own elbow tendonitis and has worked for countless others.<p>I follow Rip&#x27;s strength training program. However I can&#x27;t say I&#x27;d ever give this a try and I&#x27;m not sure there&#x27;s any scientific evidence that it works.<p>Just thought it was pretty interesting, even if it&#x27;s just bogus. I have no idea!<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;startingstrength.com&#x2F;training&#x2F;elbow-tendonitis-how-it-occurs-and-what-to-do-about-it" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;startingstrength.com&#x2F;training&#x2F;elbow-tendonitis-how-i...</a> <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Pin_firing" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Pin_firing</a> (an article on his website)<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=c1frSvu8KyE" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=c1frSvu8KyE</a> (he talks about it in this podcast)
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photochemsyn大约 3 年前
Interesting stuff. I suffered from acute lower back pain and fairly severe tendonitis for a few years and taking NSAIDs (ibuprofen, etc.) certainly didn&#x27;t help much other than to relieve symptoms when they got particularly bad. That practice just led to one round of re-injury after another.<p>The long-term solution was to change some basic behaviors (never wear a backback while bicycling, use saddlebags instead, and always warmup before exercise), and I also started a very slow recovery program (i.e. about a year-long very steady-and-slow increase in exercise levels). I&#x27;m pretty sure a key component was the use of supplements for connective tissue development (glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM, vitamin C) and bone development (calcium-hydroxyapatite and magnesium sources). However, thinking back, I also quit the NSAIDs (which were unnecessary as I always backed off the exercise whenever I felt the slightest twinge during the recovery period).<p>Nowadays, I just do continual light resistance training for back strength (basically frequent hiking with a well-balanced backpack), some relatively light gym workouts, and I&#x27;ve felt zero back pain for several years, and the tendonitis has also vanished, and I almost never take any NSAIDs (which I used to eat rather like candy). I still take that supplement mix (and I&#x27;ve tried going off it for a few months and had a notable increase in sore joints etc.) but now I wonder if quitting the ibuprofen was equally important.
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NoPicklez大约 3 年前
I could be barking up the wrong tree, but there is a podcast I listen to called Trainerroad (for all you cyclists) and they did a special over a year ago on recovery. They spoke very in-depth and brought experts in studying recovery (in the context of sport).<p>One of the interesting topics was that during recovery from exercise or an acute injury, your body&#x27;s natural response to repair is through inflammation (not surprisingly). But that reducing or trying to block inflammation inhibits your body&#x27;s ability to repair and build itself, leading to much slower recovery.<p>All in all, it seems there is a balance between reducing inflammation to prevent it from either killing you or causing pain vs reducing it to the point that it prevents your body&#x27;s natural build and repair processes.
charles_f大约 3 年前
Actual title is &quot;Acute inflammatory response via neutrophil activation protects against the development of chronic pain&quot;, please do not editorialize titles
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dataangel大约 3 年前
What I want to know is how are the standards for research and medicine so bad that antiinflammatories are handed out like candy, provided the headline is true? Nobody ever did long term studies on one of the most popular kind of OTC medications, especially for their effect on pain, given that that&#x27;s the main thing you&#x27;d look at for something marketed as a pain reliever?!
mateo1大约 3 年前
Rather unsurprisingly there&#x27;s a reason inflammation as a process exists.
Terry_Roll大约 3 年前
Blocking the Neutrophil trash-can part of the immune system doesnt seem a good idea.<p>Stay off your sugar and do a bit of intermittent fasting. Herbert Shelton might have been onto something you know.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Neutrophil#Structure" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Neutrophil#Structure</a> &quot;In 1973, Sanchez et al. found that the capacity of neutrophils to engulf bacteria is reduced when simple sugars like glucose, fructose as well as sucrose, honey and orange juice were ingested, while the ingestion of starches had no effect. Fasting, on the other hand, strengthened the neutrophils&#x27; phagocytic capacity to engulf bacteria. It was concluded that the function, and not the number, of phagocytes in engulfing bacteria was altered by the ingestion of sugars.&quot;
DoreenMichele大约 3 年前
<i>Transient neutrophil-driven up-regulation of inflammatory responses was protective against the transition to chronic pain.</i><p>Could someone kindly translate this to layman&#x27;s terms?<p>Neutrophils are white blood cells. The rest is gibberish to me.<p>Edit: To be clear, I am trying to understand this piece of the statement:<p><i>Transient neutrophil-driven up-regulation of inflammatory responses...</i><p>Edit: I&#x27;m wondering if that means &quot;Temporary white blood cell driven increase in inflammation was protective...&quot;
dataangel大约 3 年前
Not too long ago got downvoted here for pointing out there was a growing body of research against anti-inflammatory use in many situations.
skizm大约 3 年前
They mention NSAIDs, but not ice. I’m curious how constantly applying ice affects healing. I work out a lot and have a few minor nagging areas of pain (knee and shoulder). I apply ice after most workouts. I wonder if I am hindering the overall healing process.
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Traubenfuchs大约 3 年前
What constitutes &quot;anti-inflammatory treatment&quot;?<p>We know lots of supplements and food that seems to be universally considered healthy to have anti-inflammatory effects: olive oil, boswellia, pretty much all fruit and especially vegetables (and an infinite amount of other substance(s) (classes)). Is too much or even just a bit of those bad in some cases?<p>Or are only the &quot;heavy hitters&quot; NSAID and corticosteroids bad? If so, why? Are they so much stronger?<p>A little anecdote in regards to chronic pain: A combination of high dosage Loratadine (3x10mg) and Ambroxol (2x75mg) a day helped the chronic nerve pain in my face a lot, when NSAID didn&#x27;t.
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amai大约 3 年前
“In rodents, anti-inflammatory treatments prolonged pain duration, and the effect was abolished by neutrophil administration.”<p>What does that mean for the therapy of humans? How can we administer neutrophils in humans to fight chronic pain?
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amai大约 3 年前
I solved my chronic lower back pain by using a standing desk. Using NSAIDs just hides the fact that we are sitting to much.
tempestn大约 3 年前
I remember seeing some evidence recently that the application of ice to reduce inflammation likewise lengthens the healing process. Seems similar. Inflammation can cause acute pain, so reducing it provides some immediate relief, but also interferes with its beneficial effects.
msla大约 3 年前
And not blocking inflammation can kill you.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cancertherapyadvisor.com&#x2F;home&#x2F;news&#x2F;conference-coverage&#x2F;american-society-of-hematology-ash&#x2F;ash-2021&#x2F;ash-2021-car-t-in-depth&#x2F;anakinra-prevent-severe-crs-icans-car-t-cell-therapy&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cancertherapyadvisor.com&#x2F;home&#x2F;news&#x2F;conference-co...</a><p>CAR T-cell therapy is for refractory or relapsed lymphomas. One of its side-effects is cytokine release syndrome (CRS), an inflammatory response which, in its most severe grade, is fatal. Anakinra, used for rheumatoid arthritis among other things, greatly reduces the severity of CRS in poor yahoos like me receiving CAR T-cell therapy, turning what could be a rocketship ride to Hell into what will more likely be a rather uncomfortable United flight to Newark.
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drivebyops大约 3 年前
As an aside, anyone have any insight on people with NSAID allergies? I pretty much have not taken aspirin&#x2F;NSAIDs since the first allergic response as a child. What can people like myself do for anti-inflammation?
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smm11大约 3 年前
Funny, my chronic pain is reduced when I block inflammation.
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snigacookie大约 3 年前
Understandably inflammation is a clear signal that your body is out of balance. Get your blood checked, test all nutrient levels, and probably get some steroids to calm down the inflammation if it is in overdrive and blocking your attempt to correct the issue.
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