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The death of 'mandatory fun' in the office

106 点作者 akeck大约 3 年前

42 条评论

motohagiography大约 3 年前
During a particularly weird HR intervention at a branch office I worked at, all the managers were required to sit through a team building exercise where we were handed crayons, construction paper, glitter, markers and other kindergarten craft tools, and required to create some kind of personal expression and share the result with each other.<p>The intervention was in response to some big attrition and rage quits on the engineering team, and a general disconnect between that office and the rest of the company. Forgetting for a moment that a group of adults had to create these objectively demeaning expressions and then present what the glitter or animal stickers represented to each other, and to an exec with hire&#x2F;fire authority, HR collected the artifacts at the end of the session - and when we returned to the office the next day, they were hung on the walls for all the managers&#x27; staff to see what we had accomplished on a day long retreat while everyone was under immense deadline pressure to ship features. One engineer saw these pathetic clusters of multi coloured clutter taped to the walls and with the horror of someone whose invested career so far depended on performance reviews from said managers, she asked, &quot;seriously, what the hell is this?&quot; We had pissed off eng staff to begin with, but what the exec team thought we needed was a kind of coup de grace to utterly discredit managers as men and women in front of the people whose livelihoods depended on their leadership.<p>Since then, what I have come to think these exercises are is a test of supplication, and of whether you can convincingly and competitively debase yourself better than your next peer. It was a kind of race to the bottom to demonstrate how sincerely you could erase your humanity and individuality in service to the narrative of a team, and what you were willing to do to survive. I&#x27;ve even come to suspect it&#x27;s a system, where they take average people with impostor syndrome, make them debase and humiliate themselves in front of others, and then leverage the shame of the exercise into a new cruelty and compensatory sadism to squeeze out marginal effort from their staff. Now when I see glitter and crayons, I am reminded of how they tried to teach me to hate.
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fleddr大约 3 年前
The problem with the &quot;fundatory&quot; phenomenon is not whether or not it actually is fun (sometimes it can be), rather that the motivation is not genuine. When you organize a drink with friends, there&#x27;s no hidden agenda.<p>A corporate drink may still deliver fun, but not for the sake of fun itself. It&#x27;s a means to an end that ultimately benefits the company.<p>If you disagree, and are a manager that genuinely wants to add fun to an employee&#x27;s life without any secret agenda, ask them which they consider more fun: leaving an hour early or staying with coworkers they already see more than their family.<p>You should then have no problem with the &quot;leaving early&quot; answer since you&#x27;re all about maximizing fun. If you find that answer disappointing, you never cared about fun in the first place.
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bearjaws大约 3 年前
It still astonishes me to this day how Director+ level at a company doesn&#x27;t understand the power dynamic of being asked to &#x27;optionally attend&#x27; these types of events.<p>Saying no is instantly a negative thing by the literal definition of &quot;no&quot;. So however you ask your staff it won&#x27;t matter, they will be uncomfortable at the event or uncomfortable saying no.
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low_tech_love大约 3 年前
One thing about these “perks” is that they are supposed to automatically turn into good reasons to work somewhere. Like “hey your salary is shit but at least there is a nintendo switch in the common room”. I want to play games at home after work. Plus, if I sit down for more than 15 minutes in the common room playing Super Mario Odyssey people will invariably start to look at me weird. In the end it’s just another bullshit way to attract naive, young employees.
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technothrasher大约 3 年前
Maybe its different because we&#x27;re a small company, or maybe I&#x27;m deluding myself, but I&#x27;ve always run &#x27;work parties&#x27; here as non-mandatory and people seem to see it that way without trouble. Typically we&#x27;ll buy pizza, or have a bbq for lunch, or handle birthdays by one cake a month for everybody who has a birthday that month, and the employees who want to partake do, some never do, and some do occasionally. Nobody gets ostracized based on whether they attend.<p>But I also 1) never provide alcohol, 2) never require any social &#x27;ice breaker&#x27; type games, and 2) never have company events during non-working hours.
IMTDb大约 3 年前
&gt; But that doesn’t mean that colleagues stopped connecting altogether, says Lopushinsky. They just started doing it in ways they actually found enjoyable. “On the flip side, the pandemic also led to the rise of more employee-led initiatives,” he says. Team-building events and ‘fun’ ceased to be top-down. “Employees would lead a Zoom yoga class, or a cooking class for their colleagues. It’s an interesting shift, away from ‘you have to do this,’ and toward, ‘what do you guys really want to do?’”<p>I am almost sure that the &quot;mandatory fun&quot; that the article described initially started as employees lead initiative that turned &quot;mandatory&quot;, when he employees championing them started reaching position of power within the company. That&#x27;s when people started feeling like they <i>had</i> to participate to impress their boss.<p>I can&#x27;t wait for Janine &quot;fun yoga zoom class&quot; to become &quot;mandatory&quot; when said Janine becomes manager of her team and people notice that she has a privileged relationship with people who participate because they have something in common. And the cycle will repeat. There is no reason to believe the pattern has fundamentally changed.
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lastofthemojito大约 3 年前
Using the ol&#x27; quadrant construct, I think we can create 4 categories of folks with respect to such activity:<p><pre><code> 1 | 2 ----- 3 | 4 </code></pre> Above the line are folks who genuinely are open to friendship beyond work, below are folks are are not.<p>To the left are folks whose jobs encourage or require this extracurricular fun, to the right are folks whose jobs do not.<p>If you&#x27;re a #1, things are great! Work is fun AND you&#x27;re making new friends!<p>If you&#x27;re a #2, things are ok, Work is work, and you have hobbies and activities outside of work too. You might wish you were in category #1 though.<p>If you&#x27;re a #3, your job is causing undue stress and misery. You&#x27;re having your arm twisted to do things you don&#x27;t want to, perhaps due to outside commitments or maybe just lack of interest.<p>If you&#x27;re a #4, there&#x27;s mutual respect in the workplace and that&#x27;s enough.<p>I guess the traditional view is that boring old companies led to people in categories #2 and #4. But then some companies declared themselves &quot;fun&quot; and set people up to be in categories #1 or #3. I don&#x27;t see why it&#x27;s so hard to arrange fun activities, while making it clear there&#x27;s absolutely no pressure, and get people into categories #1 and #4.
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system16大约 3 年前
The worst is companies that mandate their &quot;fun&quot; on your time. Scheduling these events later in the day or after office hours, or - for some truly evil companies - on weekends.
alkaloid大约 3 年前
Anyone think it&#x27;s healthy to get anxiety attacks from being forced to get on a Zoom meeting where I have to share three personal photos with everyone?
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mc4ndr3大约 3 年前
True work life balances acknowledges that we have lives outside of business, that coworkers are not family, and that higher bonuses and flexible time off policies are more appreciated than anything else. If we wanted to be here and suffer the tedious bedlam of your office politics, you wouldn&#x27;t need to pay us.
pwillia7大约 3 年前
This is a sentiment I see expressed all the time from friends and peers that are in engineering and product that I don&#x27;t see as much on the sales side of things. I don&#x27;t know if it&#x27;s the Austin tech community that seems slightly more focused on treating your co-workers and employees with humanity, the nature or type of people on sales teams, or just a coincidence in my limited experience, but I tend to try to work at places where I genuinely like the people I&#x27;ll be working with and build real friendships (though still in a different context than non work friendships) and it seems a lot better than other&#x27;s experience.<p>You have to spend ~1&#x2F;3 of your waking life working in almost all cases and I can&#x27;t imagine trying to frame it solely as an impediment to the other things I could be doing or other people I could be interacting with.<p>I feel negative about work and the concept of work even a lot of the time, but I don&#x27;t like the idea of fully giving into that and accepting that 1&#x2F;3 of all my time will be captured by some not valuable time sink with people I&#x27;d rather not speak to. I don&#x27;t think I could live that way for long.<p>I was wooed by koolaid and &#x27;perks&#x27; at companies when I was fresh out of school, but when that faded or failed, it was the people you could build relationships with, learn and win&#x2F;fail with that really makes it tolerable to go into an office or spend 8 hours a day making someone else a bunch of money.<p>My biggest question looking at orgs is if they look at people as human beings or cogs in a machine first, and at what level as you go up the chain, if any, that stops. When you read about Amazon forcing leadership to distance themselves from DR so they can not feel when they shrewdly make the business more efficient, that is one of the most glaring examples.
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h2odragon大约 3 年前
I fondly recall the mandatory volleyball games at my first employer. The guy with no arms got hired; played one game, and <i>kicked ass</i>. Suddenly the games weren&#x27;t mandatory anymore and the bosses&#x27; kids took up baseball instead of volleyball.
_fat_santa大约 3 年前
I asked this question on Reddit a while back and this seems like a good place to ask the question now:<p>I&#x27;m a brand new manager, managing several reports and we are all remote. I&#x27;ve been tossing thoughts in the back of my head around on various ways we could bond as a team. My managers suggest that we do Zoom happy hour but I honestly cringe at the idea. With that said does anyone have any suggestions for things I can do with the team that wouldn&#x27;t be &quot;mandatory fun&quot;?<p>My thought on it thus far is if we are all remote, the best thing you can do is to just support your team and not get in the way with various activities and such. But I would love to be proven wrong.
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betterthanlast大约 3 年前
My company moved mandatory fun to Zoom.<p>I joined the first half of the first call back in 2020, nothing after that.<p>It will hurt me in the long run, but I can’t stomach mandatory fun.
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Agamus大约 3 年前
The cadaverous reek of mandatory fun was best captured by the impressively pathetic David Brent in the original UK Office series (portrayed by Ricky Gervais).<p>The moment when he points to a stuffed monkey on top of the coat-rack to demonstrate how much fun it is to work there... that moment is with me forever.
whoknew1122大约 3 年前
The problem with &quot;fundatory&quot; activities really is in how they&#x27;re implemented. I&#x27;ve had managers schedule &#x27;fun&#x27; activities... after the workday. I&#x27;m not spending any more time at work than I have to. If you want co-workers to celebrate birthdays, get to know each other better, etc. <i>do it on the clock</i>.<p>Also, most of my outside interests and lifestyle is not HR appropriate. So, outside of the work we do, I don&#x27;t have much in common with coworkers. Or, at least, I don&#x27;t know that I do because talking frankly about outside activities could lead to a trip to HR. So there&#x27;s not really anything to talk about except works tangential to work. And I already do that for 1&#x2F;3 of the day when I&#x27;m forced to. I&#x27;m not looking to talk about AWS outside of my working hours with the people on my immediate team.<p>Things change slightly when it stretches beyond my current workgroup. If I&#x27;m in an offsite training? Yeah, I&#x27;ll go do the &#x27;fun&#x27; stuff. Because that&#x27;s where I can get to know new people and have potentially find a lead on my next job move.<p>But with my current team? After work? Nah... Unless it&#x27;s with the one person on my team who shares the same taste in music. We can hang out a bit and talk about music.
reactjavascript大约 3 年前
I won&#x27;t miss the Mandatory Fun Corporate T-Shirt. What a waste of resources. Printed up and shipped halfway around the world to be used one day and then donated to Goodwill. Let&#x27;s do better!
cwoolfe大约 3 年前
The article casts office forced-fun birthday parties as toxic, and yet the only alternative mentioned is co-workers voluntarily gathering together to drink alcohol and complain over zoom...as if that isn&#x27;t also toxic. Hello everyone, we can do better! A better alternative is employee-led, voluntary gatherings. For example, my company will pay up to $1000 for any such gathering. Somebody organizes a gathering they want to do, and it&#x27;s announced to the whole company. Anybody who wants to join can come too.
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FredPret大约 3 年前
This is the most paternalistic thing ever and needs to go away forever
scioto大约 3 年前
I was once at a mandatory Winter Holidays party at my startup. Family was invited, too. And what happened at the end was that we were all, family included, directed to pick up a computer or chair or other relatively lightweight piece of office furniture, load it into your car, and move it to the company&#x27;s new location about five miles away. Surprise!<p>Since at the time I was driving a minivan, my family got to load up half the server room, racks included, and drive it to the new place.<p>(yes, the startup failed)
underseacables大约 3 年前
A great example of forced celebration and socializing is The Circle by Dave Eggers. There&#x27;s a moment early in the book between two characters. A man is very upset with a woman whom he has never met, and who was just hired by his company, because she failed to RSVP to his invitation for a company social event.<p>The ridiculousness-yet-very-serious nature of the scenario reads almost like satire, but it&#x27;s what I&#x27;ve always imagined Silicon Valley&#x27;s forced social events to be like.
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gjvc大约 3 年前
the beatings will continue until morale improves
diogenescynic大约 3 年前
I was supposed to attend a team offsite next week, but got COVID. I’m actually relieved to have an excuse not to be forced to participate.
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LeanderK大约 3 年前
A friend of mine is working in a somewhat larger, remotely working team and they have a retreat once or twice a year. It&#x27;s usually a holiday destination, a few days (like the work week) and it looks quite fun. It&#x27;s one of the few times where everyone can see each other and it&#x27;s seems to do it&#x27;s job well as a team-building exercise, and I think it&#x27;s largely because it&#x27;s bottom up. It&#x27;s up to the engineers what they want to do.<p>It&#x27;s a holiday together, somewhat boozy with different social activities where not everyone is forced to participate (some might need something physical in between and others are not really in shape to participate).<p>Which might be the secret to &#x27;mandatory fun&#x27; in the office. Maybe just ask what they would like, listen a bit and gather feedback what worked and what not, instead of just booking some random team-building offering. Top-down, mandatory fun (with a focus on mandatory) is just not going to work.
dbbk大约 3 年前
I&#x27;m sure this isn&#x27;t the same for everyone, but for me, my work environment is great. I love being in the office and socialising with people. We go for after work drinks twice a week. It&#x27;s not mandatory (or even perceived mandatory), but I personally enjoy it for getting to know my coworkers outside of work contexts.
presidentender大约 3 年前
At my last job, we had an organically-developed years-old tradition of what we called &quot;adventure lunch,&quot; a weekly outing where one attendee would nominate someone to choose another restaurant for next time. The shared experience of a brief walk was nice. There was no expectation that anyone would go and no judgment associated with nonattendance on a particular day.<p>We hired this director-level engineering manager who took it upon himself to commandeer the slack channel we had previously used to coordinate these outings, to dictate that they were now daily, and to dictate that he was in charge of choosing the location every day.<p>Covid quickly made the specific point moot, but they have since suffered nearly complete turnover in the engineering organization.
dannyphantom大约 3 年前
Severance [1] has a few bits about &quot;office fun&quot; which reflected how awkward work sponsored &quot;fun&quot; can really be.<p>Personally, the idea of &quot;fundatory&quot; is lost on me; I am working to perform a function that furthers an end goal and in return collect payment for doing so.<p>If work wishes to have a weekend event or a no-obligation after work get together, the people who wish to be there will happily show up with those who would rather not be there won&#x27;t.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=i7M-RcRsow4" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=i7M-RcRsow4</a>
wink大约 3 年前
Or maybe it&#x27;s just the sign of a meh place to work if there is mandatory fun?<p>I&#x27;ve worked at several (small I have to admit) companies where the people were usually honestly disappointed if they couldn&#x27;t join the yearly weekend outings, the parties were fun and if someone didn&#x27;t want to join, they didn&#x27;t join. OK, I only started at my current one during the pandemic so I haven&#x27;t actually met most of the people and it&#x27;s also a bigger one, with actually separate departments, so no high hopes here, but I&#x27;m just saying that it doesn&#x27;t have to be this bad.
nicgrev103大约 3 年前
My boss recently had a birthday party where he invited us to come and pay for our own pizza at a place of his choosing. He invited his wife and baby but no one else was allowed to bring partners. It was made out like it was optional but when I didn&#x27;t respond to the invite he singled me out and I was the only one not going. Didn&#x27;t feel like I had a choice really.
papito大约 3 年前
Or just cover small group lunches. Lots of bonding can happen over food. NOT at the office. Particularly important when there are older employees around. Like, you know, <i>thirty four</i>.<p>Happy hours are the fastest way to bond, because libations lead to openness, and openness leads to friendships. Do that while you can. Then switch to lunches. Or even dinners!
MisterBastahrd大约 3 年前
&quot;Sorry about not getting a bonus, but here are some paper hats and a couple slices of pizza to make up for it!&quot;
sys_64738大约 3 年前
&quot;You WILL have fun, dammit!&quot;
kX4A8o4mVmX8aW大约 3 年前
People are distinguishing between being friends with their boss and friends with their peers. Is there really a difference? Are people really cutting loose and opening up with their peers in a way that they wouldn&#x27;t if their boss were physically in the room?
Ragingweb大约 3 年前
As an engineering manager of a team spanning 5+ time zones, i don&#x27;t do any remote huddles, too cringy in my opinion. I offer free Friday afternoons for personal fun, and i travel to meet face to face every 2-3 month, on a volountary basis.
ulisesrmzroche大约 3 年前
That&#x27;s what I tried to tell students at a bootcamp, but then I never got hired back. They could just fuck off whenever they wanted to go play mario kart, and I tried to tell them that&#x27;s not what they were paying them for.<p>No clue if any made it
trynewideas大约 3 年前
If I hadn&#x27;t just come back from a mandatory company onsite loaded with mandatory fun events, I&#x27;d understand this article. They haven&#x27;t died, they&#x27;ve just become more concentrated, disruptive, and expensive.
ChrisArchitect大约 3 年前
Just started watching <i>Severance</i> on Apple+ TV and it&#x27;s a dark thriller (far as I can tell early in) but it demonstrates tons of this corporate behaviour if you want to chuckle at the absurdity of some of our realities.
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chrismeller大约 3 年前
Anecdotal evidence suggests it’s still alive and well in Estonia, almost like they’re frozen in time with a 90’s “Companies for Dummies” book.<p>Of course they also have that mindset in a dozen other ways, so I shouldn’t really be surprised.
falcolas大约 3 年前
Its not dead. It was just on pause.<p>Sent from my mandatory conference with mandatory fun events.
hprotagonist大约 3 年前
Friggin&#x27; good. Obligatory &quot;fun&quot; time is horrid.
usrn大约 3 年前
It&#x27;s been replaced with mandatory evening DEI training.
nicgrev103大约 3 年前
Everyone turning their backs on the office bday party... everyone but Boris Johnson during covid lockdown!