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Ask HN: Should Instagram add labels indicating an image used filters?

96 点作者 codemonkeysh将近 3 年前
I think we Instagram should indicate whether or not an image had filters applied to them. This will still allow folks to enhance images, but at the same time inform users that the image has been enhanced and improved. Therefore informing the viewer, what you're seeing is a mixing of reality and illusion.

38 条评论

halotrope将近 3 年前
I recently photographed a Tiger (The big cat, in the Zoo...) with the iPhone 13 Pro Camera. It looked like a comic drawing with exaggerated stripes and weird artifacts in the face. The whole pipeline from the photons hitting the sensor of the photographer to being emitted from your phones screen again is just layers and layers of optimization, compression and enhancement. Completely compromised. I think we are getting very close to a point where photography cannot be assumed to depict the real world by default.<p>It is unfortunate as the reality that the brain constructs seems to be based on this fake reality of everyone being unnaturally perfect and attractive. This seems to work even against better knowledge. No wonder we have a teenage mental health crisis. I would not be surprised if social media will get the same have the same curve of public opinion as smoking once had.
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jasode将近 3 年前
A meta comment about some of the replies...<p>I think many replies are over-interpreting op&#x27;s wording of <i>&quot;image filters applied&quot;</i> as being generalized to <i>any image manipulation</i> so having an algorithm determine it is unrealistic and pointless. (E.g. Does a camera&#x27;s builtin noise reduction count as image manipulation?!? etc etc)<p>Regardless of the imprecise original wording, the intended question is probably much more mundane: Should a label be applied when a user uses <i>Instagram app&#x27;s builtin filters?</i><p>Yes, even the easier solution to that narrower scoped question has dubious value. Nevertheless, I think that&#x27;s the op&#x27;s intended idea.
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ISL将近 3 年前
All digital images displayed on a smartphone involve some degree of manipulation and choice.<p>By default, those choices are made by engineers but they are not always &quot;correct&quot;.<p>Take a photo of a beautiful sunset with auto white-balance and it will appear to have less color than the real thing.<p>By default, most smartphone cameras trade away some contrast in favor of dynamic range, too.
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orthecreedence将近 3 年前
Instagram is a platform dedicated to presenting fabrication. The entire point is to create a better version of yourself. An unrealistically perfect distillation of all of your best qualities.<p>Why on earth would instagram want to break this illusion in any way? Their entire existence is in service to the illusion.
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junon将近 3 年前
Cool so I just improve my images outside the app using a different app as a workaround.
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JohnJamesRambo将近 3 年前
It would be great for mental health and the users and bad for the bottom line and the fake reality that makes all their profits; so no they won’t do it.
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neltnerb将近 3 年前
Hacker News lets you make polls.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=21231804" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=21231804</a><p>It seems silly to me to bother replying with a comment that just says &quot;Yes&quot; but I guess to elaborate I think that there&#x27;s clear evidence that a ton of post processing is harmful to people&#x27;s body image perception. A marking that makes clear this is not a &quot;real photo of a real person&quot; would make a ton of anxiety go away without literally regulating away the fun parts of photo editing.<p>I think it&#x27;s fantastic to incentivize people posting photos that are unedited beyond brightness and contrast (ignoring focus and stuff) even though I know just photo composition is enough to significantly alter a photo already. I&#x27;ve taken enough photography courses to know that a good photo looks much better than a bad photo even without airbrushing. But at least it&#x27;s based on the physical world still rather than entirely in an algorithm, I don&#x27;t know where else you&#x27;d draw a line even if there is a little grey area.
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sokoloff将近 3 年前
Digital cameras have built-in image processing already. (You’re not seeing data directly from the sensor.)<p>The iPhone portrait mode is a good example of this. That’s a filter by any reasonable definition of the term.<p>Where’s the threshold between image filtering done to <i>capture</i> a better version of what the sensor saw and image filtering to <i>create</i> a better version of what the sensor saw?
donatj将近 3 年前
Why? I don’t understand why it even matters. The colors are different and someone’s pimples are hidden? The filters on Instagram aren’t worth worrying about.<p>Everything presented to you is at the very least cherry picked and not “reality”. That’s why it’s presented in the first place. That’s what is worth worrying about, abuse of context.
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dkasper将近 3 年前
This already exists if you use the filters in the app. In fact it&#x27;s one of the ways cool new filters go viral. But lots of people use other apps to edit photos and upload them and IG has no way of knowing what happened to those unless there&#x27;s something I&#x27;m missing?
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perardi将近 3 年前
What is an illusion and what is reality? How do I present an objective true image with a camera?<p>And this is not some superficially dumb dorm room philosophy rambling. I can stand in one spot and get a radically different photo depending on the focal length of lens I choose. Ignoring time of day, ignoring weather, what is the “reality” I should be presenting?<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;digital-photography-school.com&#x2F;wide-angle-versus-telephoto-lenses-for-beautiful-landscape-photography&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;digital-photography-school.com&#x2F;wide-angle-versus-tel...</a><p>Ignore all the “filtering” stuff. <i>(Which, of course, you cannot possibly have an un-filtered digital photo, there is a Bayer filter array in front of the sensor, literally every photo is filtered or else it would be in black and white.)</i> Am I presenting reality accurately if I shoot someone with an 85mm lens versus a 35mm lens? What if I use lighting? What if I have them stand so they’re looking at me over their shoulder instead of straight on? What if I coach them to smile a bit? Is a model in a studio with a big softbox light an illusion or reality?
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incone123将近 3 年前
I&#x27;ve done Photoshop work for images which were for someone&#x27;s Instagram. It won&#x27;t be able to label those as filtered.
iamben将近 3 年前
More importantly, I think ads should have a separate tab. If your post is an #ad, &#x27;ad&#x27;, paid partnership (or anything other way that influencers use to <i>just</i> fit in with the rules), the photo&#x2F;video should be put in there. It should be more or less permanent (short of appealing for removal) - so there&#x27;s thought behind posting.<p>If you&#x27;re happy to get paid for it, we should overtly know it&#x27;s paid for and that you stand behind. Let&#x27;s hold influencers responsible for the shit they post.
csydas将近 3 年前
I get the goal but I don&#x27;t think it really addresses the main issue which is that what you&#x27;re looking at is already a heavily curated stream of photos taken in very specific ways to suppose a specific kind of life-style.<p>One of my friends is pretty into managing their instagram within what I consider a normal and reasonable amount. Usually this means that the highlights of our lives are briefly arranged in the most photogenic way. If someone unfamiliar with us was to check my friend&#x27;s instagram, probably they&#x27;d imagine someone who lives a pretty lavish lifestyle filled with amazing meals, delicious cocktails all the time, and a beautiful life all the time. This is mostly just the result of carefully chosen and staged pictures creating a stream that shows the best parts of life.<p>Influencers likely do the same, but with slightly more tricks; the cutest trick I learned was that the majority of mirror selfies are anything but, and actually are shot with a pretty decent DSLR that&#x27;s positioned to stay out of the shot. The photo is then cropped to phone dimensions and uploaded and &#x27;whoosh&#x27;, camera quality better than even the best iPhone can take with the perception that &quot;oh, I just shot this on the fly&quot;.<p>Basically, I&#x27;m not suggesting that a solution needs to be perfect to be implemented, but I am suggesting that I think the suggestion misses the main reason that instagram lives feel so much more glorious and out of reach for most people; there is a lot of time and effort put into making a strong and effective instagram stream beyond instagram filters. Seriously, try it out -- try _just_ using your phone and instagram filters to copy some of the most popular feeds, and likely you&#x27;ll get close a few times, but fail to capture the same look and feel. The physical production values that is required for a well curated feed goes far beyond just the technical, and even with just a basic smartphone camera, a few simple camera tricks and taking the time to prepare you shot goes a long ways into making instagram work.
cronix将近 3 年前
How about we just put a popup on all of our devices warning us that what we are about to experience is not reality each time we use it. Why is this unique to instagram? Should they also be forced to get a notarized statement using documents proving every word they post is also accurate?
fortran77将近 3 年前
No. All images use filters. What comes off the image sensor is just a bunch of numbers. Something has to be done -- which always involves compromises and choices, there&#x27;s no one correct solution -- to make an image that can be viewed on a range of display devices.<p>And I think the whole premise is wrong. You&#x27;re trying to make people not feel bad about themselves because they may see an image and have some psychological consequences? I&#x27;m not sure that these concerns are on a firm footing.
throwaway0x7E6将近 3 年前
and how would you stop people from modifying the image in another program before uploading it?
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can16358p将近 3 年前
Should they? Probably (perhaps in somewhere like &quot;more info&quot; not to clutter the UI).<p>Would they? No! Why would they want to break the part of the illusive loop that keeps people attached to endlesz scrolling? People don&#x27;t want to see the reality, they want to see &quot;perfect&quot; shots, &quot;perfect&quot; bodies and don&#x27;t want anyone to wake them up to the reality telling that what they are experiencing is not real.
misnome将近 3 年前
How do you define “not enhanced”, and how would you get an image that hasn’t been somewhat filtered and interpreted by camera software or hardware?
arbor_day将近 3 年前
Of the negative effects of IG, knowing which photos have been digitally altered doesn&#x27;t seem high on the list. I&#x27;m not sure who you&#x27;d be significantly helping with this feature.<p>Even if this does solve a user problem, it&#x27;d be difficult to make this label accurate for photos altered outside the app. An inaccurate label might be much worse than not having a label.
vogt将近 3 年前
Seems in line with cookie pop ups, COVID disclosure banners, and all the other modern web cruft that doesn’t deliver value.
gelstudios将近 3 年前
Why do you think that most viewers would get from an &quot;image has filter&quot; indicator?<p>I imagine most people _know_ when a filter has been applied.<p>Image modification via filters &#x2F; sliders &#x2F; tools are built into the product and a core part of the user-generated content creation loop, at this point any image on instagram is expected to have a filter applied.<p>Is there a threshold for &quot;not reality&quot;? Sharpening and color representation in digital images are already illusions.<p>What&#x27;s your suggestion for images edited outside of the instagram app? I did not look for any statistics but if you take a cursory glance at the &quot;explore&quot; section of instagram, I&#x27;d argue that most of the images were taken with a DSLR or a camera not built into the device that posted the image. So it&#x27;s likely those images went through some form of modification and enhancement.<p>If the concern is for viewers being deceived by these images, I think it more likely that viewers are deceived by the &quot;story&quot; behind the image, than the image itself.
rognjen将近 3 年前
My pet peeve is the fact that Instagram has a label for when something is a paid promotion but it is so infrequently used and poorly enforced that it might as well not exist.<p>It&#x27;s within the same realm as the OPs argument as to what is real and what isn&#x27;t.
nh23423fefe将近 3 年前
So basically a trigger warning for the mentally weak to manage their crippling envy?
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xwdv将近 3 年前
It will be bad for mental health as now people will filter photos or videos externally and won’t have a disclaimer that they’ve been filtered, giving a mentally weak user the impression that these are real images guaranteed.
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clircle将近 3 年前
Should a movie display a warning banner that special effects are being used?
xenocratus将近 3 年前
You can look at C2PA [1] as an attempt to track image (and other type of media) authenticity, processing, and so on.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;c2pa.org&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;c2pa.org&#x2F;</a>
jmrm将近 3 年前
This would totally make those filters users pretty angry: They want to enhance the pictures without nobody noticing that. I don&#x27;t think Meta would allow that.<p>PS: Have a peek on r&#x2F;Instagramreality ;-)
dalmo3将近 3 年前
&gt; inform users that the image has been enhanced and improved<p>They could just add a statement to their ToS that all photos on the platform have been algorithmically enhanced and&#x2F;or compressed.
ksec将近 3 年前
May be an Instagram &quot;clone&quot; where only photos taken within the App&#x27;s internal camera function with no editing allowed.
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dom9301k将近 3 年前
Nope, the user can use another app and than upload the picture without have the pic be market with the label
idonov将近 3 年前
They already added that to stories
HKH2将近 3 年前
It&#x27;d be quite useful to have a browser plugin that shows irregularities in photos.
dymk将近 3 年前
Not really. I don’t care if somebody uses a sepia filter or facetune.
ushakov将近 3 年前
are you a plastic surgeon?<p>i’d imagine there would be a lot demand by instagram celebrities who would want to keep looking like their filters once the truth is uncovered
simplehuman将近 3 年前
What&#x27;s the fun in that?
moneywoes将近 3 年前
yes, however people would just find ways to avoid the filer
simonswords82将近 3 年前
Yes