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I'm retiring from the engineering profession

266 点作者 ThatGeoGuy将近 3 年前

12 条评论

reagle将近 3 年前
Read his excellent book <i>Confessions</i>. Because he criticizes unethical&#x2F;corrupt engineering practices his enemies say he is bringing ill repute upon the profession and violating the terms of his license.
eyelidlessness将近 3 年前
Granted I only clicked through to three links, but I can’t find what this person actually stands for or what their opponents object to. It’s just conflict without content as far as I can find. Why should I care about this? There’s a cause but I don’t understand what it is.
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pdonis将近 3 年前
From the article:<p>&quot;Claims that the title “Professional Engineer” and the initials “PE” are a trade name, the very use of which constitutes commercial speech in any circumstance, is inconsistent with how I understand my vocation. I suspect most of my fellow licensees similarly consider themselves public servants, not commercial entities whose competitive privilege is protected by a state cartel.&quot;<p>While I understand his complaint here, I&#x27;m afraid his implicit factual claim is false: <i>any</i> profession that depends on the government to license its members <i>is</i> in fact a &quot;commercial entity whose competitive privilege is protected by a state cartel&quot;. If Professional Engineers really want to be &quot;public servants&quot;, the best way for them to do that, ironically, is to have their own <i>private</i> licensing body that applies its own independent, objective standards and cannot be used by governments as political tools.
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midislack将近 3 年前
I just &quot;say&quot; I&#x27;m an engineer like all the coders here. I don&#x27;t hold a certification nor do I have an engineering degree. But I sure enjoy saying I&#x27;m an engineer. Like many of you fellow coders I&#x27;m getting close to claiming I&#x27;m a doctor too. Just call me Dr. Code. I have a license to precribe additional billable hours.
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buzzy_hacker将近 3 年前
For those new to Strong Towns, I feel this article is most representative of what they’re about: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.strongtowns.org&#x2F;the-growth-ponzi-scheme" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.strongtowns.org&#x2F;the-growth-ponzi-scheme</a>
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burlesona将近 3 年前
Hi HN,<p>I’m the board chair at Strong Towns[1]. I normally lay low on these topics but I&#x27;m seeing some incorrect info among the top comments, so I wanted to respond to a few things.<p>- - - - -<p>1. What is this all about?<p>Chuck is a licensed PE in Minnesota, and has maintained his license for years even though he was working in advocacy, not practicing engineering.<p>There&#x27;s busy work to keep a license active. Chuck accidentally missed filing a renewal form and paying a fee in 2018, but continued all other requirements, such as taking required CE classes.<p>This is actually so common that there&#x27;s a simple procedure for late filing with the state. Chuck filed and paid his late fees, and the state renewed his license with no comment.<p>About six weeks _after_ renewing his license, the state filed a complaint against Chuck accusing him of committing fraud because his bio on our website said he was a &quot;professional engineer&quot; during a window of time when his renewal was late.<p>There&#x27;s no precedent for this. There are many PE&#x27;s actually practicing engineering and signing documents with overdue renewal forms every year. They file late and get renewed with no issue.<p>During negotiations with the state, their comments made it clear the licensing board is seeking to use their power to discredit and silence Chuck&#x27;s advocacy, hence the ongoing lawsuit to defend Chuck&#x27;s right to free speech.<p>(Longer version here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.strongtowns.org&#x2F;journal&#x2F;2021&#x2F;5&#x2F;23&#x2F;lawsuit" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.strongtowns.org&#x2F;journal&#x2F;2021&#x2F;5&#x2F;23&#x2F;lawsuit</a>)<p>The linked article explains why Chuck is now choosing to move his license to &quot;retired&quot; status in 2022 rather than renew it again.<p>- - - - -<p>2. What is Strong Towns all about?<p>I&#x27;ve seen several comments here suggesting we&#x27;re some kind of anti-car environmental thing, which is not correct.<p>Strong Towns is principally focused on municipal fiscal and economic health. We work with cities and towns that are struggling to keep the lights on and provide basic, functional services, and try to help them (a) understand how they got into the mess they&#x27;re in, and (b) get out of it.<p>This connects with cars because the status quo in the US is as follows: typically the federal and state governments offer lots of funding for new roadways and roadway expansion for economic development purposes, but don&#x27;t cover maintenance.<p>Many cities have much more infrastructure to maintain than their tax base can support, and also weak growth, so expansion is a bad idea. Nevertheless, cities usually seek and receive expansion road expansions because, culturally, we expect building more roads to make us more wealthy, and don&#x27;t really question whether we&#x27;re over-building or whether new &#x2F; expanded roads will pay off.<p>Thus we advocate ending highway expansion (in most cases), and advocate better utilizing our existing infrastructure.<p>We are pro-walkability because walkable places are infrastructure efficient, therefore cost-effective and wealth-creating, which correlates with the outcomes we care about.<p>We also care a lot about transparency in municipal accounting, safe streets, housing, and removing unnecessary regulation (in particular parking mandates and certain kinds of zoning).<p>- - - - -<p>It&#x27;s Sunday and I&#x27;m headed out with my family, but I&#x27;ll check in on this a bit and try to answer questions if you all have any.<p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.strongtowns.org&#x2F;board" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.strongtowns.org&#x2F;board</a>
2b3a51将近 3 年前
UK around 9:24 BST the link (and the strongtowns.org domain) is giving a certificate error. I&#x27;ve tried several different Internet connections (I&#x27;m on the mobile network and there can be issues sometimes) including links from my shell account on a shared server.<p>One device says &quot;No OCSP Response&quot; and the mobile broadband connection thinks the site contains adult content. Links just says &#x27;ssl error&#x27;. So I archived the page so as to be able to read it...<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.ph&#x2F;hAKsX" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.ph&#x2F;hAKsX</a><p>Back on topic: I&#x27;ve heard of &#x27;code of conduct&#x27; type cases being used in the days of the General Teaching Council in HR type disputes, not routine but apparently local union professionals had a case load. The GTC was abolished in 2010, and the teaching unions had a role in that.
h2odragon将近 3 年前
I suppose he must call himself &quot;Pirate Engineer&quot; now.
FollowingTheDao将近 3 年前
Good for Charles Marohn!<p>You will see who is on your side when things fall apart. Suburbans sprawl has weakened towns, as has the Richard Florida mindset of attracting specific people to create an unsustainable economy.
trinovantes将近 3 年前
Outside of Ontario Canada, I&#x27;m glad &quot;software engineer&quot; is not a regulated title. Imagine having a contrarian opinion on design patterns and then getting your livelihood threatened.
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hn_throwaway_99将近 3 年前
Texas may have a lot of f&#x27;d things about their laws, but one thing that they do very well is their &quot;sunset commission&quot;. I think it&#x27;s every 12 years or so, every department&#x2F;licensure organization comes up for review, and they basically need to re-explain why they should exist. The idea is to prevent these organizations that turn into little fiefdoms to protect their own power.<p>A couple years ago the state veterinary board sued an Austin animal shelter leader and no-kill advocate and tried to have her license revoked. The sunset commission reamed them a new one, pointing out the absurdity of them going after a nonprofit leader while they had a major problem with vet drug abuse that they weren&#x27;t handling. IIRC the majority of the vet board ended up resigning.
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roenxi将近 3 年前
I think this situation is unpleasant and there are losers with no winners. That being said, I can see the perspective of the licensing board.<p>Presumably the point of the PE title is a reliable stamp that means &quot;this person is a solid, educated, experienced and politically neutral individual who will keep your buildings standing&quot;. It isn&#x27;t appropriate for engineers to weigh in on political questions about how people should live their lives <i>in their professional capacity</i>.<p>This is a lesson I suspect the software semi-engineering profession will learn when the cost of the political battles Silicon Valley is engaged in start to come due. Much like in religious contexts &quot;be good&quot; somehow morphs into &quot;spill blood&quot; when people try to control what others can and cannot do. Engineers should not go anywhere close to even the outskirts of that fight. Whoever wins it deserves a functioning, well engineered society.<p>Strong Towns is cool with me, but it is a political project trying to do good. That sits in tension with professional engineering. Engineers do good, but not with activism.
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