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1k True Fans? Try 100 (2020)

152 点作者 superasn将近 3 年前

31 条评论

ryanbrunner将近 3 年前
I work for a company that&#x27;s very much like Patreon for podcasters (Supercast). The people who will pay $1K a year to support a creator absolutely exist, but they are a small subset of the people who will pay $100 &#x2F; year, which is itself a very small subset of the people who will listen to your podcast.<p>Some rough numbers:<p>- A podcast with an engaged fan base can usually get about 5% of their listeners to support them monthly &#x2F; yearly<p>- Of the paid supporters, 1-2% are going to be the big spenders who spend in $1K a year territory.<p>So sure, you can be self-sufficient on 100 $1K a year fans, but to get there, you need 5,000 $100 &#x2F; year fans (which needs 100,000 listeners), and not doing anything for them is leaving money on the table.
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newaccount74将近 3 年前
What the article is describing isn&#x27;t &quot;fans&quot; as much as plain old &quot;customers&quot;. Almost all the examples given in the article are people doing courses. If you sell a course for $1000, then the person buying it isn&#x27;t a &quot;fan&quot; who just gives you money, the buyer is just a customer who buys a service.<p>The only thing new about this is that it&#x27;s happening online; offering courses for $1000 is not exactly a new thing, it&#x27;s a business that has existed for ever.<p>And I&#x27;m pretty sure that most of these customers aren&#x27;t long-time fans. People will pay for access to a course, but they aren&#x27;t going to take the course over and over again.
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armchairhacker将近 3 年前
Yeah, in an ideal world content creators could make an entire salary off of donations and offering simple perks and exclusive access. But actually this is a terrible career advice and relatively few people actually end up making anywhere close to $100k on Twitch or Patreon.<p>For each example the author mentions there are 100s if not 1,000s more who are wasting their time. We just aren’t a society where most people donate thousands or even hundreds of dollars out of altruism or for “exclusive access” except in a few niche scenarios.<p>I personally subscribe to a few content creators on Patreon. These people are very talented and have die-hard fans, because frankly their work is seriously exceptional and unique, and they make money. But not $1000 or even $100 per person, more like $1000 a month in total. The average subscriber donates ~$5 per month.<p>That’s not to say you shouldn’t do Patreon, in fact I think Patreon is a great tool to give you a) motivation, b) feedback, and c) a decent supplement to your income which is at least part of what you deserve for your work. But don’t think you can quit your job and do Patreon full time, that won’t happen unless you’re especially lucky or successful, and it takes years of work. And don’t think doing Patreon full time is any easier than a full-time job either.<p>Not to mention, the audience who donates is often very different than your main audience, who are very different than the creator himself&#x2F;herself. Often what gets the most money isn’t what the most people want: case in point, mobile games, or at least mobile-style AAA games. And, often what gets the most views (and thus ad revenue) isn’t what the creator likes to create: case in point, clickbait videos and the “kid-ification” of popular YouTube channels.<p>Work on your passion, but don’t expect to work full-time on it.
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oceanplexian将近 3 年前
Obviously this is HN and not r&#x2F;Livestreamfail, but the vast majority of Super Fans are not buying courses or supporting the development of content.<p>The real Super Fans have an unhealthy obsession with an online personality and think they are going to buy a friendship, or a girlfriend, or some other reciprocity. I worked in this industry for a bit. A lot of times big donors will dump their life savings or steal a family member or relative&#x27;s credit card (Which is why the rate of chargebacks is so high). The companies pushing this have all the data and know exactly what&#x27;s going on, but market to this demographic anyway.<p>IMO it&#x27;s no different than a Casino taking advantage of someone with a gambling addiction. It&#x27;s not a &quot;Passion Economy&quot; it&#x27;s an economy of exploitation and social dysfunction.
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Applejinx将近 3 年前
Of course this poses other challenges. You&#x27;ll end up an &#x27;artist&#x27; of gilding toilet seats for rich and demanding &#x27;customers&#x27; who are very clear on what they want.<p>That ain&#x27;t me: my branding is aligned with what my actual values and heritage are, and it&#x27;s profoundly oriented towards the folks who have skills and dreams but no resources, and so I make open source software supporting &#x27;em.<p>I get excited when I can support a new platform like the new Raspberry Pi, not about thinking up stuff to excite about three of my audience who could throw me a hundred bucks a month. If I go over to serving only them I&#x27;ll be doing only as they direct, and they absolutely don&#x27;t have the vision to run my show and get anywhere worthwhile with it.<p>This doesn&#x27;t make the article worthless. I&#x27;ve been thinking very hard about how I can expand into hardware DIY and the article hints at possibilities there. I can try to come up with a DIY synth module that comes in under $20 for my primary base… or, apparently, if I can make the ultimate speaker cabinet using all my tricks and sell it to someone for $200, I could also execute it in the most sophisticated possible way, and sell it for $2000 to a superfan who is that kind of wealthy. The $20 guy can&#x27;t afford either, but the $2000 guy doesn&#x27;t need me to hold it to $200, they need me to make it special for them.<p>Risk of course is if the $2000 guy doesn&#x27;t exist or doesn&#x27;t show up. Trying to target only the wealthy is dangerous. They are as fickle as your attitude towards them is. There&#x27;s exactly one guy out there who randomly gave me $1000, and rather than demand a product, he wanted me to think about spherical harmonics in the belief that I might come up with something helpful in the field that interested him. I suspect there are guys out there who would likewise give me $1000 on the condition that I abandon what I do and start doing what they would do if they were me…
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Existenceblinks将近 3 年前
Newcomers started doing this on twitter for a while and turn social media from platform ads to federation ads network .. it&#x27;s getting worse, like everybody is literally selling to each other. Remember old &quot;long time no see&quot; friends shown up trying to sell you something? Aghh now everyone pretends to be friend and sell you something.
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RcouF1uZ4gsC将近 3 年前
&gt; Another creator who teaches physiotherapy made $141,000 with only 61 students, at an average price point of $2,314 per course.<p>This seems like a scam. To be a physiotherapist in the United States, you have to have a bachelor’s degree (4 years) followed by a 3 year Doctor of Physical Therapy degree from an accredited college.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.apta.org&#x2F;your-career&#x2F;careers-in-physical-therapy&#x2F;becoming-a-pt" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.apta.org&#x2F;your-career&#x2F;careers-in-physical-therapy...</a><p>So the people paying that money definitely aren’t making progress to become an actual physiotherapist.<p>There is also a physiotherapist assistant training which can be completed in just a couple of years. These programs are offered by community colleges and are likely cheaper and more useful than an online course.
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wodenokoto将近 3 年前
I&#x27;m quite interested in learning more about what kind of things people are willing to pay 80-100 USD a month for on Patreon.<p>The author also throws around some percentages of the growth of hig end payers on Patreon, but no hard numbers. Did it increase by 5 people? Are high paying patrons growing faster than low paying?
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quickthrower2将近 3 年前
I have heard this kind of stuff for years (going back to early 2000s).<p>Different ways of dividing your salary by N and then figuring out what you need to offer to get S&#x2F;N per customer.<p>Usually if someone is saying stuff like this they have a “solution” to sell you to help you get there. You are now the fan rather than the star.
varispeed将近 3 年前
This kind of fan driven art transform artists into dancing monkeys. I mean, there is nothing wrong in that - but makes art bland and utilitarian. It changes thinking from expressing oneself, pushing boundaries, to what can I do to make my fans continue to pay $5. The soul somehow gets lost.<p>Many artists cannot fit themselves into such regime and end up giving up. I guess that&#x27;s how humans work.
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alephnan将近 3 年前
&gt; We’re already seeing this shift, according to creator platforms... Patreon... Podia... Teachable<p>No OnlyFans?<p>&gt; One creator on Teachable who advises artists on how to sell their art made $110,000 last year with only 76 students, at an average of $1,437 per course. Another creator who teaches physiotherapy made $141,000 with only 61 students, at an average price point of $2,314 per course<p>So sell shovels?
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earthboundkid将近 3 年前
One true fan but it’s Marc Andreessen.
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tiborsaas将近 3 年前
This might be misunderstood as followers on social media, but a follower on social media does not equal to a fan. They address this at:<p>&gt; Here’s how it works: A creator can cultivate a large, free audience on horizontal social platforms or through an email list.<p>Fair enough, but let&#x27;s say the TrueFans™ are in the range of 0.1% - 1% of your followers. That translates to 10k-100k followers which is still incredibly hard to build.
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mrweasel将近 3 年前
Doesn&#x27;t this sound like inherently bad advice? Fewer number of &quot;fans&quot; means that you risk is centralized around those few fans and their particular requests and demands. I can honestly see this getting very dark, very quickly.<p>You would rarely argue that a business should centralize around only a limited number of customers.
bko将近 3 年前
&gt; Since 2017, the share of new patrons paying more than $100 per month—or $1,200 per year—has grown 21 percent<p>I think this is worded ingenuously. I originally read it that new patrons paying $100 per month has grown to 21%, but upon second reading I see that the percent has grown 21%. But what&#x27;s the base line? Why not reference that? Is it relative compared to other subs (e.g. percent paying $100+ went from 1% -&gt; 1.23%) or absolute (e.g. 1k people paying $100+ -&gt; 1,230). I would think a large percent of that is probably friends and family.<p>Does anyone personally support a stranger creator to the tune of $100+ a month? It seems like a lot. What&#x27;s the thought process and what do you expect?
pearjuice将近 3 年前
I&#x27;m wondering how much of these shifts in monthly revenue for creators are actually additional signs of inflation.
annie_muss将近 3 年前
I think the shift from big companies deciding the winners to democratized content creators Isa shift in the right direction.<p>However, has anyone tried to quantify just how difficult it is to get those 100? Even for unpaid followers&#x2F;listeners I&#x27;ve never managed to get more than a handful.
abirch将近 3 年前
For me it&#x27;d be hard to pay 1K a year although I could afford it. Heck it was only back in 2019 that I&#x27;d force myself to buy apps that make me happy, even though I&#x27;d drop 6 dollars on a coffee without thinking twice. I&#x27;m definitely a slave to my mentality.
gammabetadelta将近 3 年前
love is hard to foster<p>solve a deep and painful problem and people will follow<p>give people meaning and purpose is why religion is so powerful<p>the best products look like religion (see tesla as an example)<p>the fans take on the identity of the product<p>speaks more to the human condition and our need to belong, the biggest fans are rarely healthy folks
EGreg将近 3 年前
Immanuel Kant once formulated the categorical imperative … something is moral if it can work universally and be sustainable.<p>How about economically? Is it sustainable to have every artist supported by 100 true fans? Maybe. It means enough people have disposable income to spend $1000 a year on something, and that every artist finds a niche. Those artists who already got 100 fans would drop out of the marketplace, leaving the others until everyone found a dance partner (like with dating).<p>Viewed more broadly, though, this would go heavily against the Pareto principle, where some artists simply achieve escape velocity and get to a different level because they never leave the market, while most artists do not produce anything that people would really pay to consume, even if they discovered it over and over. It is like polygamy starving many young men of mates, and polygamy goes hand in hand with war.<p>I think a much more sustainable model is a UBI that isn’t truly “unconditional” but a gated community where successful artists and their patrons voluntarily agree to redistribute some wealth to new artists that keep showing progress in their craft. Crypto can be done to redistribute this wealth.<p>But that would mean there would be quotas on who can join as a new struggling artist and get the UBI subsidy, since it’s free money for any scammer, especially globally it could pay for a lot more where cost of living is small. People would try to make 10 accounts.<p>It is essentially voluntary socialism online. And one major problem with libertarian socialism and why it can’t solve poverty is that people don’t want to let in too many others into their subsidy program that pays non-market rates for what could be art no one wants. So yes the workers own the factory collectively and work 2 hour days but they do hazing for new people. That’s what countries do with immigration and fraternities do on college campuses.
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simne将近 3 年前
It depends. In reality, much easier to work with 1k true fans model.<p>Exceptions are, when your expensive product is in high demand, but not scaled well, so you HAVE to limit number of clients, because you just cannot make more sales.<p>What this could be? One example I hear from CG community - CG Grooming Artist - at the moment in high demand and highly paid, and many firms accept freelancers, but not all CG firms need it.
Havoc将近 3 年前
That does seem about right<p>Though the composition also matters. A small twitch streamer that recognises all their regulars usernames and interacts with them individually is likely to have a much higher concentration of die hard fans. So there the math works easier despite lower absolute numbers.<p>And that in turn is determined by what type of content it is and what type of parasocial relationship it is
m3kw9将近 3 年前
I’d try 1 if you can even, then 10, then..
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egypturnash将近 3 年前
I had a lengthy reply here but really it comes down to one thing: Andresson Horowhatsit can either start giving every creator on Patreon a few hundred a month, or they can fuck right off. Their &quot;100 true fans&quot; model proposed here is not true fans at all in the sense Kelly meant, and if I pivoted my Patreon to doing the kind of stuff they&#x27;re advocating, it would involve doing a ton of crap that&#x27;s tedious work to me, and constantly warping my work around what I think my bigger supporters want instead of making what <i>I</i> want to create and trusting my fans to keep on wanting to follow wherever the Muses lead me.<p>Also if any of you FAANG types have a thousand bucks a month you&#x27;re not using, I will <i>gladly</i> take it and convert it to goofy furry porn, and give you absolutely no training or special treatment. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.patreon.com&#x2F;egypturnash" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.patreon.com&#x2F;egypturnash</a>
stakkur将近 3 年前
Maybe. Sort of. What I&#x27;d really like to see is some sort of data on <i>long-term</i> income from these sorts of models. Yes, I know there are some--but I haven&#x27;t seen it widely successful over several years or more for more than the &#x27;1%&#x27;.
SMAAART将近 3 年前
Just another observation about The Long Tail, the top 0.1% of the long tail can do well with 100 patrons. I bet that Damien Hirst has &lt; 100 patrons that contribute &gt;80% of his revenue.
paulpauper将近 3 年前
Why stop at 100 fans when you can have one winning lottery ticket or one sugar daddy. &quot;100&#x2F;1000 true fans theory&quot; ignores the difficulty and luck required in getting those 100-1000 paying fans. It&#x27;s a nice story or idea, but impractical for the vast majority of people. Getting even a handful of fans is probably very hard for most people unless you are lucky or famous.
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jefftk将近 3 年前
(2020)
mcherm将近 3 年前
So the point here is that you don&#x27;t need as many fans if your fans are sufficiently rich?<p>I mean, it&#x27;s true: one can make more money by [selling to &#x2F; servicing &#x2F; having as a patron] the rich, but it&#x27;s not a new observation.
next_xibalba将近 3 年前
Keep an eye out for my next blog post:<p>“100 true fans? Try 10”
bradhe将近 3 年前
Why stop there? Why not 10?
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