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Protocols, not platforms: A technological approach to free speech (2019)

95 点作者 uberdru将近 3 年前

8 条评论

Barrin92将近 3 年前
I think this is largely a futile effort because the equilibrium the author thinks of when he talks about protocols does not exist.<p>All existing internet platforms already sit on top of protocols, the internet&#x27;s running on them. Anyone can built a platform on top of ActivityPub, on whatever crypto network or what have you.<p>The old internet consisted of smaller islands not because of protocol technology, but because it had a small userbase overall and discovery was bad. The benefits of aggregation hadn&#x27;t kicked in. If Mastodon gets to hundreds of millions of users I will bet that one or two instances will grow very large, develop their own rules, and what do you have then? A proprietary platform on top of what was once a &#x27;first order&#x27; protocol. The protocol is still there but doesn&#x27;t matter for end users, same way HTML doesn&#x27;t to your average Facebook user or the blockchain doesn&#x27;t matter to your average guy on coinbase.<p>People need to recognize that anything that increases connectivity between people tends towards agglomeration. Tech is <i>inherently centralizing</i>, even ironically enough the superficially decentralizing tools, if they lower the cost of communication. This isn&#x27;t just the history of internet companies, it&#x27;s the history of movement of peoples from fractured townships to large urban centers. It&#x27;s not malicious platform lock-in, but simply gravity.
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karpierz将近 3 年前
I don&#x27;t see how this approach stops a centralized service from taking over via the standard approach of Embrace, Extend, Extinguish [1]:<p>- Embrace: BigTech implements the protocol. For example, say text messaging.<p>- Extend: BigTech implements some custom additions to the protocol, that only work for their service. For example, add support for sending photos, but only ones stored on BigTech&#x27;s servers.<p>- Extinguish: Once people get hooked on your custom features, make it hard for competitors to replicate. For example, stop competitors from being able to load photos from BigTech&#x27;s servers.<p>1: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguis...</a>
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humanistbot将近 3 年前
(2019). Previously discussed at:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=25942632" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=25942632</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=20841059" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=20841059</a>
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amadeuspagel将近 3 年前
&gt; Rather than relying on a few giant platforms to police speech online, there could be widespread competition, in which anyone could design their own interfaces, filters, and additional services, allowing whichever ones work best to succeed, without having to resort to outright censorship for certain voices. It would allow end users to determine their own tolerances for different types of speech but make it much easier for most people to avoid the most problematic speech, without silencing anyone entirely or having the platforms themselves make the decisions about who is allowed to speak.<p>Most platforms have APIs that allow people to &quot;design their own interfaces, filters, and additional services&quot;. Many also allow people to build their own platforms on top of them - subreddits, discord servers, facebook groups, etc. that they can moderate as they please. It would also be possible to build browser extensions that automatically block certain speech. But this is all besides that point, because this debate is not about letting people &quot;determine their own tolerances for different types of speech&quot;, it&#x27;s about preventing other people, who are willing to tolerate certain types of speech from doing so. This is the reason subreddits, discord servers and facebook groups get banned. The people who joined them have decided that they are willing to tolerate certain types of speech, but others are not.
viksit将近 3 年前
Disagreements with this article via a claim that says technology <i>inherently centralizes</i>, to me, seems flawed.<p>The concept of democracy was evolved as a system that could distribute social power in order to catalyze the wider involvement of its members in their own social and economic concerns.<p>All the way back to Alexis De Tocqueville in the 1800s (in his book Democracy in America),<p><i>Tocqueville attributes the ultimate success of liberty in America, however, to a feature of American political order he refers to as “administrative decentralization,” which–going beyond federalism as such–fosters the participation of citizens in “real . . . political life” beginning at the local (sub-state) level</i>. [1]<p>To me, a series of decentralized, shared ownership systems that come together to provide and replace the functionality that has today been built into centralized networks is the only way to achieve any kind of &quot;liberty&quot; (however one may define that word).<p>The missing link for these systems has historically been cost - who runs the servers that runs these systems, and who pays to develop them? It is exactly for this reason that they were centralized in the first place.<p>Today, we&#x27;ve got one way to solve for these problems (tokens). I&#x27;m sure there will be more. But they will all be catalysts towards this direction.<p>Edit: To comments talking about how protocols won&#x27;t just be replaced by big companies.<p>All companies ultimately care about one thing -- distribution. They will continue to be the direct link between customers &#x2F; users and the service they provide. The difference is that they will need to build upon the protocol that has the most distribution.<p>If we imagine a new open protocol for &quot;online document comments&quot; that existed, Google Docs AND Office online could use it and have interoperable commenting from each other&#x27;s identity systems vs the state of the landscape today. what would their motivation be to do it? Same as using open source libraries like ffmpeg or openSSL -- except this time, they don&#x27;t pay to host the APIs that power this protocol.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.catholicculture.org&#x2F;culture&#x2F;library&#x2F;view.cfm?recnum=9958" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.catholicculture.org&#x2F;culture&#x2F;library&#x2F;view.cfm?rec...</a>
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slg将近 3 年前
Hiding abuse from the end user only stops direct forms of abuse, but it won&#x27;t stop all abuse. Revenge porn is a classic example because that is usually directed at everyone in a target&#x27;s life without needing to reach the target themselves.<p>Imagine a scenario in which the target uses a client that aggressively hides content. However since this system is protocol based, other users would be using clients that aren&#x27;t as aggressive. What happens if an abuser responds to every post their target makes with a revenge porn image? Maybe the victim of the abuse never sees that image because of their clients settings, but numerous people following them do. Isn&#x27;t that still abuse even if the target doesn&#x27;t see it? How do you stop this type of indirect abusive behavior without some centralized authority?
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cryptonector将近 3 年前
Protocols, sure, but then you still need to have HW running them, which enables platform building. Also, that HW (and bandwidth) has significant, non-zero costs, which again tilts the field in favor of those with the capital to pay for it, and they&#x27;ll want to monetize their investment, which again means platform building.
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transfire将近 3 年前
And coming from the other end…<p>“Protocols, not APIs”