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Meta VR prototypes aim to make VR 'indistinguishable from reality'

328 点作者 cr4zy将近 3 年前

54 条评论

causality0将近 3 年前
Realism is not and has never been VR&#x27;s problem. VR being a pain in the ass is VR&#x27;s problem. The hardware is annoying to break out and get comfortable if you wear glasses. The software is an absolute nightmare. Backwards compatibility is pathetic compared to a PC and you&#x27;re never quite sure if a game you heard about is going to be available for whatever platform you invested in. There&#x27;s also no faith in durable VR products. The people who bought a headset and phone to use Samsung VR got fucked. The people who bought a headset and a Google Daydream-certified phone got fucked. The people who bought an Oculus Go got fucked.<p>Maybe when I can get a headset that offers onboard focus-adjustment and some kind of omnidirectional treadmill I&#x27;ll sink another thousand dollars into VR but until then I am <i>done</i>.
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ahelwer将近 3 年前
Meta&#x27;s VR tech is undeniably amazing. I picked up a quest 2 off craigslist and was blown away - wirelessly streaming VR games to the headset over wifi is the first time I felt the technology had actually arrived. The resolution is also good enough to use it for actual work with text on virtual screens. It&#x27;s conceivable that the standard workstation + monitors setup will be a thing of the past by the end of the decade.<p>It is sad that we are unavoidably headed to a world where a company like Meta monopolizes control of two of our five traditional senses (sight and sound). Their business model is based on behavior modification and I fully expect their highly-compensated employees to be endlessly creative in the application of headsets to that end. The sheer scale of R&amp;D expenditure required to get realistic&#x2F;usable VR is daunting and seems beyond FOSS capabilities. Not just hardware, but software like SLAM&#x2F;VIO or image processing. I backed the Simula One headset but the disparity in development resources between them and meta is pretty astounding.
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gabea将近 3 年前
AR&#x2F;VR is inevitable. I find it astonishing that there are so many naysayers on HN, a community that in its early days embraced technology innovation. Today&#x27;s VR (and even AR via Mobile Phones) is primitive, sure, but the same could be said about desktop computers before the transition to mobile ever was an idea?<p>I expect more comments on how to influence this technology versus dismissing it as not applicable for the human race.
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PheonixPharts将近 3 年前
10 years ago I thought we would all be driving in autonomous cars by now, I was seriously concerned about the impact this would have on the trucking industry. For context I have a background in ML&#x2F;Stats so I was reasonably familiar with the research going on in this area and had many friends working on it.<p>In that time I have relearned an old adage that people before my generation would know well &quot;the last mile is the longest mile&quot;. In R&amp;D this feels far more extreme than in running.<p>VR seems very similar to autonomous driving. Quest 1&#x2F;2 are light years ahead of what we had a decade or so ago. At the same time it&#x27;s nowhere near to the point where it&#x27;s going to be a major part of my day. The Quest was mind blowing when I first used it, but I got bored remarkably fast. Most importantly, none of my problems with quest are the problems that are being solved here.<p>The biggest one, in my opinion, is still space. I want a 10&#x27;x10&#x27; area to run around in to even start having fun, and even in a house I still don&#x27;t have an open space that supports that without moving furniture around.<p>The mobile phone took over our lives because it&#x27;s so small and convenient. Large TVs work because we&#x27;ve been building homes around them for decades, and TV spaces are also communal, family&#x2F;friend spaces. This brings up another issue, VR is fundamentally isolating. I get annoyed enough when friends don&#x27;t look up from their phones.<p>The remaining obstacles for VR to conquer seem to be arguably bigger problems than the ones that self driving cars need to tackle to take over the roads.
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dmix将近 3 年前
For the price point Quest 2 really is an amazing product.<p>We&#x27;re really getting to the point where it&#x27;s mainstreaming.
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celestialcheese将近 3 年前
If they can deliver on presence, where I can look into someone&#x27;s eyes in VR and have a conversation and feel like I&#x27;m with them in the room, I&#x27;ll buy everyone in my family on day one.<p>I get giddy thinking about being able to have weekly dinners or watch movies with my family across the country and have it feel like we&#x27;re actually there. This feels far off, but it seems like zuck is getting the pieces together, like the Codec photorealistic avatars [1], to make this happen.<p>Facetime, Zoom, etc, it&#x27;s just draining not being able to hold eye contact because of camera placement. And people get distracted. And the current products, BigscreenVR and the weird cartoon avatars and VRChat, just don&#x27;t do it for me.<p>FB will probably fuck this up, but I see the vision.<p>1 - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theverge.com&#x2F;2021&#x2F;10&#x2F;28&#x2F;22751177&#x2F;facebook-meta-codec-avatar-real-time-environment-rendering-neural-interface" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theverge.com&#x2F;2021&#x2F;10&#x2F;28&#x2F;22751177&#x2F;facebook-meta-c...</a>
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schaefer将近 3 年前
Can I please just have a 3d window manager? No, not mapping my 2d desktop onto a single surface in 3d.<p>A true 3d native window manager. where I can arrange each individual window anywhere in the 360 degree space?<p>Until that is solid, VR is not the productivity tool I was hoping it can be.<p>Just like Mobile(ios, android), Microsoft could not possibly drop the ball any harder here.
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theschwa将近 3 年前
The interview with Norm from Adam Savage&#x27;s Tested gives a lot of good extra details: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=x6AOwDttBsc" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=x6AOwDttBsc</a>
mihaifm将近 3 年前
I think one of the greatest barriers to VR adoption is not resolution etc. but motion sickness. It is caused by the conflicting signals the brain receives from the body and from the eyes. Currently the only way to get rid of it is through training, but I&#x27;m not sure how many people are willing to go through the process. It took me about a month to fully get rid of it, but I assume it vastly differs from person to person.
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talkingtab将近 3 年前
A very long time ago I was quite stupid. I got an email about this weird thing and I tried it. It was slow, did nothing new and I dismissed it. This was the first web browser (NCSA Mosaic?). I dismissed it out of hand. The thing I missed was that despite the problems it had, in a fundamental way it changed how people saw and interacted with the internet.<p>No one now has a clue as to what VR will eventually look like. Meta is clueless, VR critics are clueless. But the fact is that VR changes how we interact with the internet in a fundamental way. IMHO. :-)
SilverBirch将近 3 年前
This is quite interesting actually, because this sort of directly lays out &quot;Here are 3 difficult technical problems we need to solve for a VR headset&quot; - Resoution, Focal depth, high dynamic range.<p>I&#x27;m not an expert in the area, but resolution and HDR seem like basically solved problems - in that they&#x27;re just logical progressions of where we are today. The focal depth one I didn&#x27;t understand. He says normal monitors are a fixed distance, whereas in VR and AR you need to focus on different distances. But these VR headsets <i>are</i> just a fixed distance away, so how is that really a problem?<p>Fundamentally these problems are clearly necessary buticie not sufficient for VR.
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thinkingemote将近 3 年前
VR as a future is tied into &quot;identity&quot; and certain group identities, some of which we see clearly now in social media.<p>Identities which someone can invent for themselves which can be independent generally from geography, genetics, looks, temperament, age etc. Freedom to be whoever and whatever you want to be. Today&#x27;s social VR users are often playing with their own identity right now.<p>It&#x27;s all about image, a spectacle, a way to make personalities and reality flexible and it&#x27;s a way for identity to be expressed as a kind of collection of things that can be commodified and packaged up for sale. That&#x27;s the future which is looked at.<p>However I think we might see a genuine sub culture emerging, as a reaction against this. We can possibly see some of this in some of the language used in a few strange semi-underground youth music events today. It&#x27;s not anti tech, and not anti identity at all! More like a demand to be in control of their own methods and ways of consumption. A certain ironic detachment from corporations.
rubicon33将近 3 年前
People can hate on Meta, and hate on VR all they want, but I for one am really excited to see that there&#x27;s a massive company going ALL IN on this technology.<p>It&#x27;s easy to be a skeptic right now. The headsets are heavy, the experiences aren&#x27;t perfect, etc. But what you see now is just the beginning. The VR skeptics and naysayers are the same people who dismissed personal computing. VR is absolutely game changing and it is just a matter of time until the technology is there to truly win over even the most die hard skeptics.
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wruza将近 3 年前
The low popularity and adoption level of VR, and consequently the very miserable shape its industry is in, is in my opinion because VR doesn’t really address its most plausible and largest consumer even at the slightest: a gamer. As a moderate adult gamer who is able to cut through the technological bs and buy a decent headset, I have no idea why would I wave my hands, turn my head&#x2F;body and jump around after a day of work. I just want to relax in my chair and have a jetpack-like experience of hover flying on a keypad&#x2F;mouse&#x2F;controller and <i>maybe</i> glancing +-15 degrees around <i>when</i> my own instincts scream to do so. VR&#x2F;AR &gt;itself&lt; isn’t as amazing as companies try in their marketing. I just want a full-fov 3D display and a controller that could AR-pass-through a part of my table as some “deck” or a dashboard so I don’t spill my drink and can see my vape device and phone while having a 3D experience in popular 3D games. I want to point and click&#x2F;tap&#x2F;etc as usual, and only sometimes to point with my hand in the scenes which do not require a quick action, just as a more elaborate way of control, or to perform a real gesture. Mostly I want to hold a controller with both hands in a way that it points to something like a two-handed laser tag with buttons and sticks.<p>I’m speaking not only of shooter&#x2F;action games, but also quests, rpg, fixed-altitude (non first person) sims, third person character control in general. Basically the same games like on PC, but with a depth component and a little changes in controlling, if any.<p>Instead we have: jump-around and slash games; games that require to walk, move hands and point&#x2F;look around, cinematic panoramic “games”, meditation “games”, and other try-and-forget lo-fi bullshit which almost no one would buy if it wasn’t VR novelty. Which fades away in just a week.<p>Basically, today’s VR is a tiny niche like any other flat-sales Steam niche. And it will stay so. Because most people like to sit and relax. When a job requires them to walk, jump and move their hands, they start to think about to maybe land into some office. When they want to talk to someone, they sit down. When they work with visuals, the last thing they want is to stay up and stress their hands. Hands at the belly is the most comfortable position for extended time.<p>How VR companies are unable to understand these basic, stupidest and already explored principles is frustrating.
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0xakhil将近 3 年前
It might be difficult for us to imagine a shift to VR version of social media. But think about the next generation of kids growing up with these kind of techs. They will mass adopt them and we will follow. For Facebook, it was millennials who adopted first and for Snapchat&#x2F;tiktok, GenZ.<p>And Facebook will get the opportunity to own the platform completely for the first time. So the soon they reach their goal, the better. Actually, it is a smart move.
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system16将近 3 年前
Mildly interesting but confusing. Who is the audience for this little clip? Meta shareholders who need reassurance that the metaverse is on track?
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chrstphrknwtn将近 3 年前
I feel like VR has been the next big thing almost my entire life.<p>I remember watching TV shows in the late 90s talking about the VR revolution that was just around the corner. It seems that Virtual Reality™ is still just screens on faces. The whole article is about displays and lenses.<p>Regarding the &#x27;indistinguishable from reality&#x27;, a virtual reality would need to include things like smells, environmental conditions like wind and rain and thinner air, and physical sensations like pain.<p>In many ways we&#x27;re not really sure what &#x27;reality&#x27; is, so suggesting that one could make a virtual reality that is indistinguishable from actual reality doesn&#x27;t even really make sense.<p>Virtual Reality is just ersatz senses.
colordrops将近 3 年前
They are missing some items from their &quot;VR Turing Test:<p>* Full field of view.<p>* Not having the feel of a clunky headset on your face.<p>* Not having to regularly align and adjust the headset so that the visual looks right.
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Animats将近 3 年前
That&#x27;s nice, but it&#x27;s just the display part. Now you need something to generate a high-quality display. Right now, the minimum hardware for that is probably a Playstation 5, which can run the Unreal Engine 5 Matrix demo. So you could do this now, tethered, with somewhat bulky headgear. Like the Star Wars Experience location-based entertainment system, which cost US$10K and required a backpack.<p>Carmack says all that has to be squeezed down to swim goggle size to go mainstream. Eyeglass size to become ubiquitous, like smartphones. Eventually, but it&#x27;s some years out.<p>Meanwhile, we should see low-end standalone systems (Google Glass 3.0?) and high-end tethered systems with a base station doing the graphics.
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mjfl将近 3 年前
I have no desire to do anything in VR, no matter how good it gets. I want to use my keyboard, to have a screen in front of me, to not have my person completely captured inside of a virtual world. And I don&#x27;t understand anyone who would want that.
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civilized将近 3 年前
I don&#x27;t understand how you can be a human with a real physical human body and seriously expect VR to ever be just like reality.
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Geee将近 3 年前
Cool, but I&#x27;m never buying anything from Zuckerberg.
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phkahler将近 3 年前
That&#x27;s nice, but one thing that will be needed more is a wider field of view and the ability to look around by moving your eyes instead of your head.<p>All of these goals can be achieved with real holographic displays. We need the equivalent of a GPU optimised for computational holography, and a display with high enough resolution to render phase coherent interference patterns (rgb omg). No lenses will be required. This is the endgame for wearable displays.
AltruisticGapHN将近 3 年前
Imho right now the immersion is &quot;good enough&quot;... but what I notice the most is the lack of light. So HDR or some evolution of that is what&#x27;s most lacking in my opinion.<p>Even with the crappy compression on YouTube, you can watch a scene where you are on the beach in VR. After all, isn&#x27;t that the dream? Of course you can&#x27;t feel the waves splashing on your feet, but you can definitely enjoy the feeling of being in that space. However, the lack of the bright deep blue sky is really noticeable.<p>Likewise in games. I definitely preferred Skyrim VR on Quest via a cable over the RIFT because the blacks are much deeper (oled), but on the other end of the spectrum, the sky is always lacking in brightness.<p>My hunch is this is going to be hard to solve... I mean most homes today don&#x27;t even have any kind of lighting that remotely reproduces the outdoor lighting.. I doubt that the small screen inside the headset will be able to simulate a bright blue sky... I mean I don&#x27;t think it&#x27;s just a matter of &quot;intensity&quot;.<p>But who knows I am clueless, it could be that the pixel density is what prevents the screen from giving the &quot;bright blue sky&quot; depth of light.
rob74将近 3 年前
So, &quot;Project Cambria&quot; is really a &quot;Cambrian Explosion&quot; of prototypes?
unnouinceput将近 3 年前
Let&#x27;s say tomorrow it will solve all 4 problems mentioned in article. Let&#x27;s say it will use quantum communication so no delay whatsoever. Let&#x27;s say it will be cheaper than cheapest Android device and let&#x27;s say it will be easier to use than put on &#x2F; take off a pair of glasses.<p>But if it will be locked to an FB account then fuck that shit.
AndrianV将近 3 年前
Our culture, government, environment, and interpersonal relationships are all in shambles. Why don&#x27;t we spend billions on solving real-world problems and having real-world interactions instead of using virtual reality technology to look around the artificial environment, move around in it, and interact with virtual features or items?
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intrasight将近 3 年前
Holographic lenses - something I&#x27;d not heard of before. I am glad there&#x27;s big R&amp;D efforts in lenses as I think that&#x27;s both the hardest and most important problem to solve. Moore&#x27;s Law and software will solve all the other problems fairly quickly. But fixing the lens challenge requires hard-code physics. My bet is still on the arrival of visible-light meta-materials that have a negative index of refraction and therefore make flat lenses possible. That&#x27;ll be a step function transition for XR, and open the path to mainstream adoption.
spywaregorilla将近 3 年前
Kind of cool. But none of these seem to address the real problems VR has. There&#x27;s no VR content that is held back by the graphical fidelity atm. Aside from maybe porn.
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Havoc将近 3 年前
Wish they&#x27;d go into a bit more detail given that they have actual prototypes...<p>Slightly confused as to why they stuck the zuck into what looks like a plywood shed though?
seydor将近 3 年前
I m really glad they are trying. The Quest2 is the most innovative product in tech in a looong time and FB isn&#x27;t even a hardware company. Beating Apple to it is a big feat.<p>But VR is not going to be a wide success, it will be a really nice 360 image viewer for when those cameras become popular and cheap. It has its place , but it is obstructive. And it cannot become a status symbol, which imho is a big driver behind iphone sales
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maximus-decimus将近 3 年前
I think it&#x27;s gonna die the same as 3D tvs did. If it wants to have any chance of being popular, it needs to be comfortable with glasses. But even then, old people will have problems if they need to focus to see stuff up close. What are they gonna do, uses a VR lens to make small text in the meta verse bigger?<p>VR is more immersive, but it&#x27;s a lot less convenient than just a 2d screen and I don&#x27;t see that changing.
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jshaqaw将近 3 年前
Interesting to me that here on Hacker News there are so many &quot;VR will never happen&quot; based on a static view of where tech is today. I don&#x27;t think that staring into a lit rectangle with a keyboard based on 1800s technology is the be all end all of human-computer interfaces. I suspect mass AR&#x2F;VR adoption will happen faster than most people imagine.
Netcob将近 3 年前
I have an original Vive and I hardly use it, mostly because of how it takes a while to set up and put on, but also because of the depth-of-focus issue that gives me headaches. I still haven&#x27;t heard about any viable solutions to this.<p>And of course I&#x27;m not going to get a product that needs to be tied to a mandatory Facebook account.
xdrosenheim将近 3 年前
VR has come a long way, and I will always be happy to see improvements in the tech. But &quot;indistinguishable&quot; from reality? That is not gonna happen in our lifetime. I am rocking a Valve Index with 4 base stations, and I will say that the experience is a great one, absolutely, but Meta&#x27;s goal is very far away...
dmix将近 3 年前
The new design of the last one has a headset that you turn to mount on your head looks nice. That&#x27;s so much better than the straps that comes with Quest 2, I hope they make that the standard.<p>The after-market Quest head kits for ~$20 make it much more comfortable.
freemint将近 3 年前
... by replicating all the oppression and destroying democracy in the mean time probably.
kache_将近 3 年前
Reality approximating VR will a huge boon for our fight against global warming &amp; our capacity to use gas&#x2F;fuel on things more important than transportation to conferences &amp; offices.
horns4lyfe将近 3 年前
IMO the real killer app here is porn. So much internet tech has been heavily influenced by porn (video streaming, payment systems, etc.) and VR is the holy grail of porn.
pyb将近 3 年前
I don&#x27;t know if this stuff is genuinely indispensable and novel, or if they&#x27;re preparing to create a patent thicket around VR ? What would industry insiders think ?
eszaq将近 3 年前
The thing that turns me off of VR the most is rumors I&#x27;ve heard (sometimes here on HN) of eye health issues from excessive VR use. Is anyone working on that?
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Slix将近 3 年前
I&#x27;m excited by improvements in VR technology. Varifocal lenses would solve one of the weirder problems in VR: that you can&#x27;t change your focal point.
nathias将近 3 年前
I&#x27;m waiting for contact lenses with a good enough resolution to serve as a screen replacement and cyberdecks replace laptops ...
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xor99将近 3 年前
Open source the designs and drop the aggressive ad business &#x2F; develop privacy preserving technologies
langsoul-com将近 3 年前
VR tends to be uncomfortable after a few hours, I think that&#x27;s a bigger issue for mass adoption.
dukeofdoom将近 3 年前
VR elections next. Can&#x27;t wait to chose between Jack Johnson and John Jackson.
sys_64738将近 3 年前
Wow, this is scary. These VR goggles remind me of the visitor&#x27;s sunglasses in V. You don&#x27;t think...?<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.scifipulse.net&#x2F;richard-herd-passes-to-the-final-frontier&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.scifipulse.net&#x2F;richard-herd-passes-to-the-final-...</a>
nrclark将近 3 年前
Every time I see something like this, I&#x27;m struck with the idea that Zuckerberg read Ready Player One and said &quot;yes, that&#x27;s make THAT future.&quot;
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raguilera将近 3 年前
Pretty cool, bummer Facebook is the one building it.
poisonarena将近 3 年前
as long as someone is doing it
planetsprite将近 3 年前
I find it charming Zuckerberg actually seems to care about this stuff. He of course wants every human interaction to be monetizable by Facebook, total control of our dopamine channels, etc. but I think beyond that, deep down, he&#x27;s just a nerd who wants to live in a VR dreamland to shut out the millions of people who call him a weird lizard.
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puranjay将近 3 年前
I can already tell I&#x27;m going to hate the next 30 years of technology.
notyourwork将近 3 年前
It’s been this way from the very start of virtual reality. It is called reality after all. What’s so special about Meta?
lxe将近 3 年前
I like to bring up the Newton&#x2F;Palm&#x2F;iPhone example when we talk about emergent tech.<p>If you grew up in the 90s, you probably remember hand held PCs, and Apple Newton. Those were pretty cool. I wouldn&#x27;t really HAVE to have one, but those were pretty neat. Then the &quot;PDA&quot; appeared -- I knew many who had those and used them for business. &quot;Regular folks&quot; didn&#x27;t really need one but they could find these devices to be pretty useful. Then Blackberry came about, and then BOOM -- the capacitive touchscreen, and the iPhone with a few killer features that drastically changed mobile computing for the last 15 years. Everyone has one.<p>Sometimes it takes decades for someone to &quot;get it right&quot; as tech matures. VR is in the pre-newton stage... if we are to compare the &quot;final form&quot; of VR to be what we think of smart phones now, VR is probably in the &quot;60&#x27;s or 70&#x27;s era&quot; stage of development. We probably won&#x27;t see an explosion or a revolution of VR-tech for a few decades.
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