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The world needs a non-profit search engine

533 点作者 daoudc将近 3 年前

78 条评论

javajosh将近 3 年前
<i>&gt;Google makes $40bn...If I can create something that just a tiny fraction of people find useful, then I can create a huge amount of value.</i><p>You conflate two meanings of value: monetary value, and intrinsic value. Search engines are intrinsically but not monetarily valuable to users. Search engines are monetarily, but not intrinsically, valuable to advertisers. You can get into trouble when you conflate these two meaning of &quot;value&quot;.<p>In fact, right here is the pivot on which the internet goes from an idealistic shang-ri-la for geeks, to a commercial hellscape for the unwashed masses. It is surprisingly easy to create intrinsic value with computers! You see it all day every day on HN: some geek had a thought, spends a weekend making it, and then deploys a solution.<p>It is surprisingly hard to extract monetary value from an intrinsically valuable solution. In fact, I believe that <i>creating artificial scarcity</i> is the hardest part of building an internet <i>business</i>, requiring invention on par with the intrinsically valuable part - and yet its the very thing that idealists rail against.<p>(And making something artificially scarce does seem morally repugnant. And yet I don&#x27;t see any other way to pay developers. Full stop. Open source software + consulting fees is a good way to go, but that can&#x27;t apply to hosted search for the public. Well I guess it could, you could teach businesses how to game your own engine!)
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kolinko将近 3 年前
Perhaps a better approach would be building an open source www index or even a full current cache - as an enabler for people to build their own search engines?<p>Right now it is extremely difficult to build your own web crawler that would compete with Google. And that is not because of the technology, but because multiple sites will prevent your bot from accessing them if you&#x27;re not Google or Bing - either through robots.txt, or through directly banning your IP if it&#x27;s trying to crawl and it&#x27;s not a confirmed google-bot.<p>Having a non-profit, open source, crawler that keeps an up to date index (or web cache) of the web would help competition spring up.
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larsrc将近 3 年前
Disclaimer: I work for Google, though far away from Search.<p>Regardless of search engine design, there&#x27;s HUGE money in SEO. Any successful search engine will be gamed. Do you have the developer power to go red-queen against all the large companies in the world?
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TulliusCicero将近 3 年前
&gt; Instead of looking at how long people spend on a site, we would encourage users to give explicit feedback on rankings and use this to improve our ranking system.<p>While they&#x27;re not wrong about how the way Google determines ranking has its issues, this way has its own set of problems. If you explicitly use user ratings as part of your rankings in some way, people can punish sites they don&#x27;t like, ala review bombing on Yelp, Steam, etc.<p>Not saying it&#x27;s necessarily a bad idea because of that, but I hope they don&#x27;t fall victim to the mentality of, &quot;let&#x27;s just trust the users&quot; as an ironclad rule, because that doesn&#x27;t always work out well.
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irrational将近 3 年前
I use duck duck go. Recently someone showed me their screen where they were using google to do a search. I was absolutely aghast. The last time I used google when you searched for something you saw a simple text list of sites (which is how DDG still works). Instead the google results were… a disaster. You had to scroll through some much garbage before finding actual search results - a list of sites. It was like google was saying, “here, look at all this trash instead of clicking a link and going to a different site”. When did google become so bad?
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mattrick将近 3 年前
One feature that I really wish more search engines would have is the ability to blocklist certain domains, particularly ones whose results are never relevant or helpful to the query itself (Pinterest, Quora, etc). It could even be used as a factor in the site’s search rankings.
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mcv将近 3 年前
I&#x27;ve been thinking in this same direction. Especially the community-driven part. Google seems to be more interested in what corporations and advertisers want, rather than what users want. With their tendency to crowd-source their AI training, I&#x27;m surprised they don&#x27;t let users vote on search results.<p>If I were to make a search engine, I&#x27;d definitely give users more control over their results. Block crap sites, vote up your favourite sites, vote down questionable sites, maybe different context profiles, because if you&#x27;re searching for Java in the context of vacation or news events you want different results than if you&#x27;re searching for it in a programming context.<p>There&#x27;s so much that search could do better than what Google is doing, but I&#x27;m not doing it because it&#x27;s way too much work, and it requires serious resources to index everything.
dmje将近 3 年前
He&#x27;s doing that thing [1] where&#x27;s he&#x27;s writing about a thing and presumably wants me - the interested reader - to know more about that thing because it&#x27;s the thing he&#x27;s spending all his time on, but he gives zero navigational options to his thing. So as that interested reader, it&#x27;s down to me to find the name of his thing [Mwmbl] and then (hilariously, given the context!) use a search engine (probably The Evil Google) to find HIS thing.<p>Seriously, people, if you&#x27;re writing about anything at all, making assumptions is always a bad idea. If you&#x27;re writing about a product, make it <i>more than easy</i> to get to it. Provide plentiful CTA&#x27;s (that&#x27;s Calls To Action, defined so as not to make the same mistake of assumption) - links, bittons, a big banner at the top: (&quot;I&#x27;m building a non profit search engine called Mwmbl! Find out more&quot;).<p>K, thanks, &lt;&#x2F; moan &gt;<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=31494925" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=31494925</a>
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marginalia_nu将近 3 年前
Honestly, the easy part is building a search engine, like just document retrieval stuff and domain ranking, SEO-mitigation etc. Anyone can build a Google &#x27;98 and get it to work well, not that hard, doesn&#x27;t require all too much hardware. I have done that and got one running out of my living room.<p>The tricky part, if you want people to use your search engine for more than the novelty factor, and what most Google competitors struggle with is drawing the rest of the damn owl. For example, commercial searches, local businesses, that sort of thing. As much as Google flounders with some queries, the overall package is still <i>really good</i>.
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tyropita将近 3 年前
Quite a neat way to crawl websites using a browser extension. That by itself is a form of donation to the search engine. Maybe in the future you can have dedicated software for self-hosted clients that users can run to crawl and index websites for mwmbl? Kinda like folding@home.<p>How are the batches of URLs to be crawled generated&#x2F;discovered and posted at your API?<p>How do you deal with duplicate crawls?
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phtrivier将近 3 年前
The &quot;funding options&quot; part has the unsurprising blind spot that, maybe, a search engine is the kind of basic infrastructure that ought to be paid (at least in part) by... The taxpayers ?<p>I have a long standing bet that, at some point, some company will be &quot;globalized&quot; (operated under some common funding by many different countries, like many research projects or defense organization or aid funds, etc...), and the &quot;search engine&quot; part of google is the prime candidate.<p>That being said, I&#x27;m from Europe, so &quot;sharing the cost of something useful&quot; is not culturally untolerable.<p>Far fetched and controversial opinion, I know. We&#x27;ll see.
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mmazing将近 3 年前
&gt; The technology for organizing the world’s knowledge should be owned by everyone.<p>This is what really nails it for me.<p>There&#x27;s far too much black box in pretty much every major search engine out there. Maybe it&#x27;s by design &quot;so that people can&#x27;t game it&quot;. Even so, it&#x27;s not working very well.<p>I&#x27;m excited for the next 10 years to see what we (humans) come up with to solve the state of the internet, because something&#x27;s gonna give at some point.
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oidar将近 3 年前
I get an incredible value from search engines. Google even (their shopping and book search features are very helpful). But right now, I am liking paid search as the way forward. Kagi is doing pretty good things right now. I love how I can up the weight of certain domains so that their results come in at the top without having to add site:awesomesite.com at the end of every search string. In fact, I can have 20 sites that I trust a lot that show up pinned at the top of the search for every query. It&#x27;s 10 bucks a month, but I find it valuable.
mordae将近 3 年前
I think that we are past the point the search engine could just crawl the web and rank results based on some heuristics. We need both community curation and get librarians involved with their classification systems, because in 3 years the results are going to be dominated by automated GPT-xy content farms.<p>Case in point: www.forkandspoonkitchen.org<p>The first search engine that provides community curation and manages to get most tech-savvy people on board, classifying the content for free, is going to reign in the upcoming decade as Google loses its grip.
pronlover723将近 3 年前
This seems really really naive. Do you really think a non-profit is going to fight the hordes of spammers, scammers, seo masses, mechanical turk hordes, etc that are going to game your system?
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O__________O将近 3 年前
Worth noting attempts at non-profit search engines are not new. In 2015, Wikimedia Foundation attempted to start one called the “Knowledge Engine” using at least $250,000 from a grant. Wikipedia likely started the project as a response to Google’s use of “knowledge panels” based on Wikipedia Creative Commons license alongside search results in 2012, which reduced traffic to Wikipedia.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Knowledge_Engine_(Wikimedia_Foundation)" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Knowledge_Engine_(Wikimedia_...</a><p>Also worth noting that Google is a significant donor (and now enterprise customer) of Wikipedia, but unclear if this had any impact of Wikipedia’s choice not to continue the project.
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noisenotsignal将近 3 年前
As the underlying project discussed by this post is a search engine, I searched for “mwmbl” on mwmbl.org [0], and no results were found! Relevant results like the main site and GitHub repo show up when searched on Google or Kagi.<p>[0] - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mwmbl.org&#x2F;?q=mwmbl" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mwmbl.org&#x2F;?q=mwmbl</a>
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labrador将近 3 年前
I don&#x27;t know what the world needs but I need a personalized search engine. I would like to filter out anything to do with sports. I would like filter articles that contain marketing jargon and technobabble. I would like to filter articles written below high school grade level. And so on.
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y42将近 3 年前
I totally like the idea but I dare to doubt that this would solve the SEO problem. Website owners who are participating in those notorious affiliate programs or earn money with ads will still use the search engine to drag people onto their generic websites, using methodolgies to fit the search engines ranking mechanisms, no matter if they are public or not.<p>SEO and all it&#x27;s results seem to be immanent to the system.
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benrmatthews将近 3 年前
How is the name of the site pronounced? “Mah-wim-ball”?<p>Google’s name was so ubiquitous it became a verb, Duck Duck Go is a smart memorable name.<p>Mwmbl is a challenging product name, even if the .org domain name was available.
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soperj将近 3 年前
I really like your idea to have users help you crawl the web. I just don&#x27;t like what your extension is asking for when I try to install it:<p>- Access your data for all websites - Monitor extension usage and manage themes
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bacan将近 3 年前
The issue with Google is SEO optimized spam sites beat out real content. Until we get rid of web advertising, it&#x27;ll continue to be this way.<p>Spam site operators have a huge incentive to get users to click on their links &amp; provide them with ad-revenue<p>For Google, they could make things so much better by down-ranking sites that show ads
chris_f将近 3 年前
Worth mentioning is the Alexandria.org project [0]. It is a non-profit search engine built on data from Common Crawl. The coverage is limited because of Common Crawl, but the relevance is decent. They also provide an API.<p>I believe one of the biggest impacts toward breaking up Google&#x27;s monopoly on search is making them open up access to their index, even requiring Google to provide direct API search access for others to build alternative search products. They have a search API today, but it is prohibitively expensive to build on ($5&#x2F;1000 calls).<p>I built a fairly popular search engine a couple years back, but the cost of Google&#x27;s search API and increasing number of bot attacks make it difficult to reason keeping it online.<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.alexandria.org&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.alexandria.org&#x2F;</a>
pasdechance将近 3 年前
I go Mojeek, then DDG.<p>I kept forgetting about Kagi. I have a login for that.<p>Yep.com has a different model, I haven&#x27;t read into it far enough to decide if they actually do as they say they&#x27;ll do.
naillo将近 3 年前
With all the great progress in large language models lately, and them being excellent text compressors, I&#x27;ve started to wonder if you couldn&#x27;t just replace a search engine with a like 100mb file full of weights that let you query essentially google scale results except all locally.
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ZeroGravitas将近 3 年前
I&#x27;d quite like a browser extension that records all my searches and where I end up, just for my own review. I feel like many of my searches aren&#x27;t actually searches, but I can&#x27;t quantify that at the moment.<p>Feels like that would be good info to share, once it&#x27;s depersonalised.
Sujeto将近 3 年前
Most of the time you want answers from a certain place, be it reddit, or stackoverflow.<p>It&#x27;s usually easy enough to add the site, by simply writing its name, but it could be easier.<p>I&#x27;m thinking right now this:<p>- Compile a browser without the cross origin limitations<p>- Make a site that uses iframes with all the answer-providing websites in it<p>- Simply focus the text input in the site&#x2F;iframe you want and search away<p>- Have a way to open the results in your main browser or just use that patched browser<p>Like one of those internet explorer toolbars, except they cover the whole area.
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epolanski将近 3 年前
The way I see it, Google is no longer in the business of <i>searching</i> websites, but in the business of <i>ranking</i> them from at least a decade.<p>I still remember helping a friend finding informations on the accounting balance of Rome&#x27;s, Italy, public transport, and finding the most relevant link buried deep at around page 20. The first 15 pages were almost completely news websites with completely irrelevant news to the search query but they would consistently rank much higher.
mrkramer将近 3 年前
The main enemy of a better search engine are casual users who are satisfied with Google&#x27;s mediocrity and don&#x27;t seek nothing more advanced and better. Power users are the one who suffer the most.<p>Google will have to reinvent itself or it will eventually destroy itself with negligence of its core business. There isn&#x27;t yet critical mass of casual users who think Google sucks, all they think is that the Google is internet. That&#x27;s their intellectual level.
solarkraft将近 3 年前
The internet, somewhat ironically, really needs a search engine that works in the current day. You can&#x27;t find anything anymore. It&#x27;s like Google has been un-invented.<p>Hopefully some day soon the internet will be searchable again.<p>Thanks to everyone involved in attempting to make this happen (preferably in a non-profit-maximized way).<p>(Said before at <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=32034390" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=32034390</a>)
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renonce将近 3 年前
The biggest challenge with making a search engine is to combat adversarial SEO. It&#x27;s an issue that&#x27;s very easy to be overlooked when you are small, but at Google scale, your enemies have billions of dollars to make from your visitors.<p>I bet Google spends at least as much to combat that, and it&#x27;s extremely hard to deal with while being open-source. It&#x27;s useless to call for a non-profit search engine without tackling this very core issue.
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6510将近 3 年前
&gt; There are two ways forward that I can see:<p>&gt; The paid subscription model &gt; Donation funded, non-profit model<p>No! There is a 3rd! You could do a search app eco system where you leave the unlimited overly complicated puzzles a search engine could address as an exercise for the user.<p>I always have a bazillion ideas but couldn&#x27;t think of a single good phone app before mobile phones. I mean, should I want my phone to be a gaming console? It seems ridiculous. Writing is writing books, all other kinds are watered down. Do I want to write books with an onscreen keyboard? It all sounded idiotic, nothing worth using.<p>But the idea you mention, typing an overly popular domain name without extension should take you to the website directly... What you are trying to say IMHO is CLI! Search is just the failback if the provided query&#x2F;instruction doesn&#x27;t make sense to any of the apps.<p>I cant think of many but there are no doubt thousands of activities that could benefit from an at least somewhat themed search engine. An app could be a biochemistry web directory that ranks results from a chosen sub folder above the normal results.<p>Any FOSS or other company could create a web dir tree with the few or many pages about it self. A check box lets you pick the ones you want to query. Normal results go under those results. The biochem wont bother you when searching for pokemon.<p>People love my stores. What they really want is to see illustrated results from my inventory above all other results. Uncheck the box if you are not in the mood. (edit: I&#x27;m joking of course but I do have a good fews shopping apps that I actually use)
DisjointedHunt将近 3 年前
This is the kind of idiocy that makes me despise the developer community every time i see something like this. It is one of my pet peeves, so if you&#x27;re going to have an opinion on this comment, please, read the whole thing.<p>The ad supported free internet is one of the most important business models the world has arguably ever seen. Very few can argue with the fact that poor kids in developing countries over the past two decades and longer have had their lives changed beyond anyones wildest dreams thanks to the free resources at the tip of their fingertips.<p>On the same note, much of the wealth accumulation in the developer community has been on the backs of this very business model. The immense demand for dev talent and the astronomical salaries paid out is a consequence of the difficult financial choices made by so many before us.<p>When i read absolutely low-effort activism such as the text in the link about how(paraphrasing) &#x27;sEaRcH eNgEnEs mAkE mOnEyY&quot; and thus they are bad. I&#x27;m astounded at how intelligent people who can write code can simultaneously be so fucking moronic in their grasp of economics.<p>The web is an ecosystem. There are always going to be incentives that don&#x27;t fit your moral compass that are getting optimized for and against. The answer isn&#x27;t to burn it all down and shit all over a business model because it apparently doesn&#x27;t fit your childish understanding of the ideal. By all means, compete, but atleast try to understand the various actors and participants in this complex web of entities and what role they&#x27;re playing in the flow of investment, content, data and economic activity that is far more nuanced than &quot;wEb rEsUlTs wIll B beTtTeR iF nOT oPtImiZeD fUr $$$ &quot;<p>Face fucking palm
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amadeuspagel将近 3 年前
&gt; Fast ... Instant Search<p>Great idea, and &quot;instant search the web&quot; would probably a better pitch then &quot;non-profit search engine&quot;. Interesting argument that google doesn&#x27;t do this because it isn&#x27;t compatible with their ad model, but that doesn&#x27;t mean a new ad-funded search engine can&#x27;t do this. For google it might be billions of dollars in lost revenue while they adjust their ad model, a new ad-funded search engine wouldn&#x27;t have this problem.<p>&gt; Frictionless ... For example if you are typing “facebook” or “hmrc login” you could go straight there from the address bar.<p>No thanks. I sometimes do search for &quot;company name&quot; looking for the wikipedia article for the company, or news about the company, or information about the company in general. If you used facebook before, then it&#x27;s going to autocomplete as soon as you type &quot;face&quot; in your addressbar, and you won&#x27;t need the search engine. So if someone searches for facebook, they&#x27;re either using the browser for the first time, or they&#x27;re looking for information about facebook. Latter seems more likely.
M0r13n将近 3 年前
I am conflicted when it comes to stuff like that:<p>- on the one hand I really want free, open and non profit services to succeed<p>- at the same time I greatly value the user experience<p>Don&#x27;t get me wrong: These two things can go hand in hand. There are tons of good examples out there.<p>But, the closer you get to classic user-centric applications and leave the software developer bubble, the greater the discrepancy becomes in my experience. Brave, DuckDuckGo, Firefox and so on are desirable. But I always feel like I am missing out on the UX.<p>Google still yields better search results FOR ME(even with all those ads and clickbait).<p>Firefox still feels a bit dated and slow compared to Chrome.<p>I value the positive effects of free software so much that I am willing to accept limitations in usability in the hope that it will improve over time. But I feel like it should not be this way.<p>I can&#x27;t support every project financially or contribute to its success as a contributor. My time and financial resources are limited.<p>I haven&#x27;t really found a solution for this problem. My best guess is that the government should intervene in the free market and install market barriers to tame giants like Google. But this is repugnant to the liberal in me.
Cupertino95014将近 3 年前
Tell me how this doesn&#x27;t quickly devolve into a consensus-rules hellscape, where minority views are either ignored or certain minorities are artificially boosted.<p>There is no way that design choices (especially the ordering of results) can be made in a way that pleases everyone. So either you dumb it down to the point of meaninglessness OR you enforce a mainstream-only ruleset.
samwillis将近 3 年前
The cost of building a “general” search engine for the “whole” web is astronomically high, in the 10s to 100s billions. It’s not achievable, Google were only able to do it by growing as a business at the same time as the internet itself. I don’t believe it’s possible to compete with Google (or Bing) by starting at zero.<p>The route forward, and what should be advocated for, is a distributed network of search engines, each for a specific vertical. If it operated as a cooperative they could share expertise and technology, they could then build a “meta” search engine for the co-op that combined all the results from the specialist niches. Each member basically “owning” the “franchise” for a specific type of search or category.<p>So, I don’t believe a single non-profit is the answer. More a co-op type arrangement where the co-op organisation (which may be a non-profit) has a mission to advance internet search through it’s network and strategic investment.
dalbasal将近 3 年前
That the world needs a non-profit search engine is near trivially true at this point. So good luck Daud.<p>I think the pertinent question though, is what&#x27;s the best way to demonopolize search. Maybe the answer to that is non profit, maybe something else.<p>Google has a most search users. They have an even higher (much higher) portion of search revenue and essentially all of the sector&#x27;s profits. One advantage a non profit might have is going after the low profit parts of search. Use cases where Google is likely to be under-serving users.<p>Also, search isn&#x27;t just websearch anymore. It&#x27;s a way of calling a calculator, translating, etc. It&#x27;s a text box that does stuff. The newest gen of language models may be the technical catalyst for some rapid evolution in the &quot;clever text box&quot; space. Google is obviously super active in this space, but shifts are a good time to get in.<p>Where would you skate, if you were skating towards where the search puck is going?
leobg将近 3 年前
A recent comment here mentioned search in early browsers (1991ish). The browser would fetch all links from the current page n levels deep in the background and uses that to build a local index.<p>I wonder if something like that could work today, only with the index being shared across the user base.<p>The benefit would be that it’s a decentralized system. No giant infrastructure required which needs to be paid for by a big corporation. Basically, the infrastructure needs would be outsourced to millions of devices. And for websites, users and crawlers would be the same thing. Which is to say, you cannot block one without also blocking the other.<p>It could also add feedback mechanisms. Active ones, such as commenting on pages and discussing them, as we do on HN. But also passive ones such as tracking how long the user interacted with the page, to score the value of pages&#x2F;domains and improve the ranking algorithm.
jsmith99将近 3 年前
I think Google&#x27;s results could be a lot better but I&#x27;m relatively ok with my search being provided by a for profit company. Their incentive is to get me to want to use their product. A non profit with that much power might be more tempted to manipulate search in ways that suit their personal preferences.
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dgudkov将近 3 年前
It&#x27;s unfortunate that with all the immense value that search engines provide the idea of paying a small monthly or annual fee to use a search engine is incomprehensible for most people.
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tinodb将近 3 年前
How should I pronounce this search engine? I know naming is hard, but if you want something to be easily adopted, having a sticky and pronounceable name is paramount!
avgcorrection将近 3 年前
This search engine is supported by The Bill (and Melinda?) Gates Foundation, The Organization for Promotion of Democracy, The Organization for Prosperity, The Organization For Truth And Transparency And Against Fake News, The Organization Against Renegade Knowledge, The Organization For Helping Silly Citizens Think Better, The Organization For The Truth About Qatar, The Organization For Freedom And Good Things And Not At All Tied to the CIA, and some other folks.
guerby将近 3 年前
I would love to have a search engine with buy&#x2F;nobuy tag: shows only shops with &quot;buy&quot;, and no shops with nobuy in the search results.
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keynesyoudigit将近 3 年前
I hope I&#x27;m not too late and this doesn&#x27;t get buried - anyone interested should check out <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.findhelp.org&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.findhelp.org&#x2F;</a> ! I work here and we are super hiring for engineers :)<p>Edit - ah, he means the search engine should be a non-profit. Not what I thought he meant.
Timwi将近 3 年前
Love the idea and the project! However, if you are aiming to become popular, definitely the first thing you need is a better name than “Mwmbl”.
frozencell将近 3 年前
&gt; Just 1% of 1% of this would be more money than I’d know what to do with ($4m).<p>Not knowing what to do with $4m means the failure of the education systems.
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unsignednoop将近 3 年前
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Quaero" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Quaero</a>
ilaksh将近 3 年前
We don&#x27;t need another centralized search service. We need protocols for publishing and finding information that do not rely on servers.
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voltagex_将近 3 年前
There are so so many anti-scraping sites around - it&#x27;s very difficult to do without pretending to be Googlebot or whatever.
laserbeam将近 3 年前
&gt; [google gets 40 billion a year from search.] I can’t even conceive how big it is. Just 1% of 1% of this would be more money than I’d know what to do with ($4m).<p>Ouch. I wish you the best but that statement makes me lose hope. Employees are expensive. Servers aren&#x27;t exactly cheap either. And unexpected mistakes along theyl way cost a lot.
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guerrilla将近 3 年前
Please add it to [1] since Firefox (absurdly!) doesn&#x27;t seem to let us add arbitrary search engines anymore.<p>1. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;addons.mozilla.org&#x2F;en-US&#x2F;firefox&#x2F;extensions&#x2F;category&#x2F;search-tools&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;addons.mozilla.org&#x2F;en-US&#x2F;firefox&#x2F;extensions&#x2F;category...</a>
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eterevsky将近 3 年前
&gt; Google tries to work out which sites are interesting by how long you spend on the site.<p>How would Google know how long you spend on the site? It only sees what links you clicked and doesn&#x27;t know what happens next. (Unless the website uses Analytics, but Analytics doesn&#x27;t affect search ranking.)
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formerkrogemp将近 3 年前
I mean the IRS makes 990 forms publically available. They may be a year or two behind, but it&#x27;s valuable financial and personnel data from nonprofits.<p>EDIT: Ok, I see that this is about a search engine structured as a not-for-profit, not as a search engine <i>for</i> nonprofits.
geekamongus将近 3 年前
&gt; Google has an incentive to rank pages that contain Google ads because it makes them more revenue. Google has an incentive to rank profit-making sites higher so that they make more money.<p>Is there evidence that they do this?
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O__________O将近 3 年前
Appears you’re in the UK, is that where you intend to registered the non-profit? If so, in the UK, what are the real costs of forming a non-profit, keeping records, generating reports, (shut it down), etc.?
Terry_Roll将近 3 年前
When using a VPN to access Youtube, the adverts played to you will be in the local language of the VPN destination, yet Youtube can deliver the appropriate language content. Strange that!
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bernardlunn将近 3 年前
Has to be decentralized. Huge data centers need huge amounts of capital
greenie_beans将近 3 年前
Does this work? <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;projects.propublica.org&#x2F;nonprofits&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;projects.propublica.org&#x2F;nonprofits&#x2F;</a> America only
happymellon将近 3 年前
First thing I try is:<p>Star trek imdb<p>First result is startrek.com, second result is Star Trek into Darkness IMDb but 3rd is xkcd.<p>It then goes off into Q and William Shatner Wikipedia links and Muppet Movie IMDB in Russian.<p>I tried putting a plus in front of IMDB and quoting Star Trek. It doesn&#x27;t seem to be able to find Star Trek on IMDB. I admire the concept, and it is extremely fast.
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mkozak将近 3 年前
Not for profit? Ecosia is one. They do make money, but in general it&#x27;s not-for-profit organization that use majority of money they make to plant trees.
lukeschwartz将近 3 年前
Never thought real-time searching will be so cool <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mwmbl.org" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mwmbl.org</a>
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siquick将近 3 年前
Been using Brave search for around 6 months and probably 10% of searches need the !g parameter added. Braves working well.
golf_mike将近 3 年前
Hope this takes off. Also hope he works on his math when it comes to funding, 1% of 40 billion is 400 million, not 4 :p
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iamjbn将近 3 年前
If you need a good search engine, pay for it. Business needs to make money, it’s that simple.
nova22033将近 3 年前
This is a Elon &quot;I&#x27;m going to build a hyperloop&quot; Musk feel to it..
tommoor将近 3 年前
I wish the Google One subscription would just remove ads from results.
cvccvroomvroom将近 3 年前
The world needs a non-profit and co-op social enterprise most things.
0xMatt将近 3 年前
another thing you could offer is really nice clean themes. I&#x27;ve paid for more than one app in my time JUST to get dark mode lol.<p>obviously good search trump&#x27;s the dark mode tho.
charlieyu1将近 3 年前
Wikipedia is non-profit and still manipulated by shills.
carvking将近 3 年前
Build one. DAO could be a good soil for this.
throwaway2056将近 3 年前
I bet two-thirds of hn crowd is some how affiliated to the progress of search, ads, lead-generation, analytics, user-tracking (FAANG) etc. Think of their children...
1-6将近 3 年前
And become the next Wikipedia? No thanks.
nix23将近 3 年前
YaCy?
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factfindingisfn将近 3 年前
It definitly does
dredmorbius将近 3 年前
For an information based on standards --- HTML as a document markup language, HTTP as a transport layer, TLS&#x2F;SSL for security, TCP&#x2F;IP as an underlying networking protocol, among others --- one that is conspciuously missing is an <i>indexing standard</i>.<p>That is, <i>even if a site wanted to</i>, there&#x27;s no way for it to declare &quot;I have content related to X&quot;. Even better would be if these indices could then be distributed in a cache-and-forward model similar to how DNS (another distributed discovery index) works. There was some exceedingly rudimentary attempt at this through elements such as keyword meta tags, but even at best these referenced a vanishingly small fraction of the actual content of a site or article. Sitemaps also address a component of the problem, but again, only in part.<p>Some might see a few immediate issues. One is that not all site are sufficiently dynamic to know what content they actually contain. To an extent this might be addressable through extension to the webserver protocol such that a server would be aware, or <i>become</i> aware, of what content it contained.<p>Another is that a site might in some instances be inclined to misrepresent <i>what</i> it contained. This may be hard for some to believe, but I&#x27;m given to understand it occasionally does occur. To help guard against this, there might be <i>vetted</i> indices, in which one or more third parties <i>vouch</i> for the validity of an index. These reputation-sources could of course themselves be assessed for accuracy.<p>But <i>if sites were responsible for reporting on what content they actually contained, and could be constrained to doing so accurately</i>, a huge part of the overhead in creating independent search engine, and breaking the seach-engine monopoly, would be eliminated.<p>One might imagine why certain existing gatekeepers over Web standards might oppose such an initiative.<p>There would still remain <i>other</i> problems to solve within search space. It&#x27;s possible to divide General Web Search into a set of specific problems:<p>- Site crawling: this includes determining search targets, any exclusions from such lists, and performing the actual crawling. Self-indexing addresses part of this problem.<p>- Indexing: Mapping of actual contents to keyword and query terms which might address that content.<p>- Ranking: Assigning a preference &#x2F; deprecation to specific sites. This is essentially a trust &#x2F; reputation assessment, with a canonicity &#x2F; authenticity assessment (e.g., where did a specific item or document first appear).<p>- SEO: This is the Red Queen&#x27;s Race issue in addressing insincere &#x2F; malicous actors. Strong and durable penalties for abuse, and long-term reputational accrual, should be useful here.<p>- Query interpretation: There&#x27;s a considerable art to figuring out what a question actually means. In some cases queries should be taken strictly verbatim. Quite often, however, interpretation is necessary. How those alternatives are posed might vary, with an option not often employed presently being to suggest a range of potential interpretations or related queries which might produce better results for specific query scenarios.<p>- Presentation: This is generation of the serch engine result page itself, incorporating several of the other considerations listed, but also addressing usability, accessibility, clarity, and other concerns.<p>- Revalidation: As the editors of the Hitchiker&#x27;s Guide observed, the Universe is not static, and circumstances change. Revalidating, revisiting, and revising results and reputational assessments is necessary.<p>- Monetisation&#x2F;Funding: I&#x27;m partial to a public goods model, or perhaps a farebox role via ISPs, pro-rated to general income&#x2F;wealth within a region. Advertising, as a famous Stanford research paper prophetically observed, forces disallignment with searchers&#x27; interests and objectives.
kebman将近 3 年前
It&#x27;s perhaps a bit on the side but still part of the topic of search.<p>Have you noticed how newspapers systematically <i>do not</i> supply a clear source for their articles? It&#x27;s especially prevalent on political cases where there are easy-to-link paper trails. This makes it a lot harder to find the source for their article, so you end up just taking their word for their angle on the story.<p>A great recent example is Biden&#x27;s Executive Order on the protection of women. When the newspapers writes about his EO, they&#x27;re never doing it form a neutral standpoint. In this case they&#x27;re either pro or anti abortion. But if you want to know the contents of Biden&#x27;s EO for yourself, then you&#x27;re forced to <i>search</i> for it. And depending on the search engine, that might also be hard because also search engines are politically biased.<p>Just so we&#x27;re clear, this post <i>isn&#x27;t</i> pro or anti abortion. Instead it&#x27;s an example on how newspapers systematically force you to take their word for their angle on any given news story. So if you want to know <i>source material,</i> then you&#x27;re forced to search for it. And when you do search for it, you&#x27;re then at the mercy of the political bias of the search engine.<p>For that reason I&#x27;m not so sure a non-profit search engine will make political biases go away, especially when you consider what happened to Wikipedia. While not a search engine, it is a non-profit and communal project that set out with the ideal of being truly neutral, but in the end it failed at that, and some would say spectacularly. And the main reason is exactly bullshit, or rather the BS that comes with political bias.<p>Don&#x27;t get me wrong, it&#x27;s still a great source for information, but when you search for any topic that is <i>in any shape or form</i> politically sensitive, then you have to know about Wikipedia&#x27;s <i>clear</i> political bias beforehand, or else you might take their angle as gospel.<p>This is especially insidious when it comes to search engines and also social networks, because most people assume that what is shown to them there is neutral, or at least coming from a friendly party. But then it turns out, that&#x27;s not always the case.<p>When you systematically get biased information, then it&#x27;s a democratic problem, because it prevents people from making up their own mind about political topics. Thus when people finally vote, the risk is that we get a society that does not reflect peoples actual opinions.<p>I think most people in here has been on the receiving end of that, no matter which side of the aisle you&#x27;re on. And the result is always resentment and bitterness which in turn does not make for a healthy democratic environment.<p>Instead the political bias should be more clearly visible and out in the open on both newspapers, encyclopaedias and search engines alike. And while a non-profit search engine would certainly save you from corporate interests, it still won&#x27;t save you from political ones, though it might be a good trade-off to save privacy.
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skitout将近 3 年前
About the funding model, it would be great if normal donation works.<p>If not, I think the way some WEB3 projects are funded maybe an interesting inspiration (not talking about Ponzi scheme here). Many projects are &quot;non profit&quot; and sale tokens before the service is 100% ready. It funds the amelioration and scaling of the project. And the possibility to resale the tokens at a higher price in the future sometime attract token holders and often increase the &quot;motivation&quot; of the token holders &#x2F; supporter of the project... fuel the community (money is only part of the motivation). Here token could be associated to symbolic &quot;privileges&quot; (badge, access to early releases), or governance (taking part of some votes).<p>This system have clearly some drawbacks, but allows sometimes to increase the number of early users and supporters, and get more funding while staying a non-profit.